Mini 1248: A Newb's First Mafia (Game over!)

[Voidedmafia]

Votecount 4.01:

not voting - Deltawae, Grimmjow, Lopsy

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-11-25 14:50:00), or by 2:50 PM (central) November 27th, 2011.

[Lopsy]

Lopsy post 500 and 501 leave a bad taste in my mouth. Stating the obvious to gain town points.

Neither post 500 nor 501 is mine- which posts do you mean?

I'm also suspicious that Lopsy in post 648 (near the end of the day yesterday) said that she "thinks Delta is town." Now I'm down to a 50/50 shot of being town. Interesting odds considering where we're at. Sounds like you want to go back on your Delta townread so you can hedge your bets between the two of us.

I still have a townread on Delta; the problem is that as of yesterday, I had a townread on Grimmjow too, so they canceled out.

After the ISOs, I must say that I'm more suspicious of Grimmy now. I'll hold my thoughts and reasons until after he posts.

[Voidedmafia]

Quick update: I'm working 9 hours Friday and might have to work 9 hours Saturday. Apparantly there's a big plan coming that needs to be pushed through by Thanksgiving, so we're hoping we can get it done in that time.

[DeltaWave]

I will be catching up tomorrow. I have had a group project due in class that's worth 20% of my grade, so my time has been taken up with that. Sorry about the delay, all.

You posted this on Wednesday, it's Saturday now... content plz

[DeltaWave]

Lopsy post 500 and 501 leave a bad taste in my mouth. Stating the obvious to gain town points.

Neither post 500 nor 501 is mine- which posts do you mean?

I meant 530 and 531, I screwed up the numbers originally

[Lopsy]

Ah, okay. But how exactly are those posts stating the obvious? If you mean post 531, I think my idea about GreyICE possibly not trusting his scumbuddy to be a very good player was fairly subtle; if you caught that as obvious immediately, woah, good job. If you mean post 530: yes, "WOOHOO!" is stating the obvious- sue me, I was excited and wanted to shout it!

---

Grimmjow, I understand you have a group project; can you give us any projected date when you'll be finished with it, though?

[DeltaWave]

The intent of 531 seems to be to score townpoints, not to actually help the town. You talk about GreyICE not trusting their scumbuddy, but you never actually used this information in the next day. So it doesn't seem to be part of a valid strategy, or else it would have been used as such... and, of course, the townpoints gained by the implicit assumption that you wouldn't call yourself stupid (which is what you'd be doing with 531.)

Also Grimm please post. There's literally 4 days left until the deadline.

[Voidedmafia]

Ah, apologies. I though Grimm had posted before, else I would've prodded him Saturday.

He's been prodded now, though.

[Grimmjow]

So, replacing into this game was hella more difficult than I expected it to be. Being replaced in the day before LyLo and actually surviving to LyLo is ridiculously hard. I have no preconceptions based on playing in the game previously, and I can't look back at my predecessors actions and go "Now why did he say this?" And there are many things that I would have asked during the process of the game that I didn't get a chance to ask. So long story short, I've already got about 3 pages written up, and I'm trying to trim it down.

As that stands, I'm looking back at interactions between Grey and you two (and Adc, as Delta replaced Adc). Adc comes in, puts RA at L-2, gets called out on it, and then votes Grey. He goes from his RVS vote to another RVS vote after having been called out on stupidity/potentially scummy behavior. It's obvious when he votes Grey that the heat is going to be on him, so why make another RVS vote? Alternatively, Adc, as a newb, realizes that it'd be possible to put RA at L-2 without putting too much suspicion on himself (which backfired). When he gets heat, he switches his vote to Grey, this way he can later say "Oh, but I did vote Grey, I'm not scum." Early on (with Adc), Grey seems to be very coddling and defensive of Adc, as I would assume (from a scumbuddy standpoint) that Grey realizes that Adc is new and may need some careful prodding. When asked about Adc putting RA at L-2, Grey shrugs it off, and then changes the subject from Adc's actions to the fact that L-whatever that early on doesn't concern him. Adc also is defensive over Grey and his posts slightly (calling RA out for having one line responses to Grey posts) while simultaneously distancing himself from Grey (agreeing with RA's posts [in the same post he flip flops on this]). In his last post of the game, he also posts about several people, but Grey is not one of them. This way no one can say what his feelings were toward Grey after he left (and I challenge you to find a post by Adc that says ANYTHING about Grey's alignment or even Adc's suspicions toward his alignment). And that's the point in which Adc replaces out.

I'm still hashing out my thoughts, so the Grey v. Delta part will be later, and then I'm going into Grey v. Lopsy.

@Mod: Since I replaced in and this is taking forever (due to having to re-hash everything and replacing in so close to the end of the game), if it came down to it, can we possibly get an extension so that I can have a little bit more time? Having 1.5 Days is completely different from having 4 like the other two have had. Just a thought.

[DeltaWave]

ADC made a total of 13 posts in the thread, including his confirmation post. He pulled his vote on RA literally 10 minutes after he put it on, when he realized RA was at L-2. And, in a game this size, L-2 isn't even a big deal. If it was a Large or something, then L-2 means something, but here it doesn't. That's really all I have to say about ADC.

Keep in mind that in ISO #11, he states that he doesn't like RA's one liner's against Grey but then says once RA explained it, he agreed with him. "I didn't like your 1 line answers in response to GreyIce. However, now that you've gone into some detail on why you thought he was so far off base, I find myself in agreement."

So take that as you will.

[Grimmjow]

That's the post that I was talking about when I said that Adc seemed like he was soft defending Grey while simultaneously agreeing with RA.

[DeltaWave]

I don't see how it could be considered soft defending when he was agreeing with RA. That's not defending at all.

BTW, I have no idea what was going through Adc's head obviously, so I can only speculate. But it sounds to me like he wanted to get more meat out of RA's posts. If you notice, Adc tended to make longish posts so it sounds like he would expect the same in return. But then again, like I said, speculation.

[Grimmjow]

Yeah, I can understand that. I'm having a hard time putting into words what I'm trying to say. It makes sense in my head, but when I try to type it out, it doesn't.

[Voidedmafia]

@Mod: Since I replaced in and this is taking forever (due to having to re-hash everything and replacing in so close to the end of the game), if it came down to it, can we possibly get an extension so that I can have a little bit more time? Having 1.5 Days is completely different from having 4 like the other two have had. Just a thought.

Unless we have some freak accident near the deadline or something (if the site goes down, or something, and forces me to missed the deadline), I most likely will not grant an extension (see rule 16).

If you all can agree on it though, I'll add 36 hours to the deadline. All three of you, mind.

EDIT: Also, just put in vijay's NK flavor.

[DeltaWave]

I would agree to an extension.

[Lopsy]

I agree to the extension also, of course.

Furthermore, I will remark that, excepting circumstances/PMs I don't know about: unless Grimmjow is the scum, it would be unfair of VoidedMafia to grant an extension hinging on open mutual agreement. Only scum would refuse, hence that would be suicide, hence no one will refuse, hence the extension will be granted regardless of who wants it. Therefore, the extension is unfair unless Grimmjow, the player who proposed it, is the remaining scum. (This isn't an immediate conviction, as there are several ways it can be wrong, e.g. "I was planning to have an extension in the first place; I knew that everyone would have to agree, but I decided to ask anyway" or "When offering the extension, I didn't think about the (possibly hypothetical) ramifications of the remaining scum being forced to agree.")

The second question is: is it ethical for me to use such a scumtell? It's not a perfect "Grimmjow must be guilty," because of the reasons mentioned above. However, I don't think trying to WIFOM the mod is within the spirit of the game. On the other hand, it's hard for me to artificially discard this from my suspicion...

[Voidedmafia]

It would also be unfair to grant an extension because someone is lagging behind while the rest are fine, and then not conferring with the rest of the players to see if it's okay and just granting that extension out of the blue. There are no emergencies or any bizarre circumstances going on here (no one needs a sudden V/LA that'll take longer than 4 days, no one needs to unexplicably replace out, et.c), so any deadline extension would be given IFF (If and only if) all/the majority of the players agree to it. It seems like a bit of a hard balance, but I suppose I'll learn how to deal with it in the future.

EDIT: Just caught a PM from Grimm saying he doesn't want one. Since I did say, all three of you needed to agree, the extension is negated. Sorry for any troubles this may have caused. (I'd still make that amendment to the rules, though)

(and if no one caught my edit, I put up vijay's NK flavor)

[DeltaWave]

Hey lopsy. You might actually be town. I have to return to my fortress of solitude and think about this development.

[Lopsy]

Wow, I don't see why Grimmjow would turn down an extension. Maybe he doesn't need it, sure- but that's like throwing away a twenty-dollar bill because you already have enough money for the strawberry ice cream cone.

I would say that Grimmy is scum that tried to pull some quick town points by asking for an extension, then when he realized Voided was about to actually grant it, hurriedly PM'd a statement that he doesn't want one. However, you'd think that Voided would say the PM was from an anonymous player in that case, right?

[Voidedmafia]

I personally wouldn't leave them anonymous (barring game rules making it so)

[Lopsy]

Wahey. I'd wait for Grimmjow's response, but I severely doubt there's anything he can say which would convince me not to do this.

Vote: Grimmjow

That was a strange ending. I'm a little disconcerted. Personally, I think, I would have made extension voting by private messages, or not divulged that Grimmjow was the one who sent the dissenting PM. In the end, though, I'm not a qualified mod, so I probably don't know what I'm talking about.

[Grimmjow]

Vote: Lopsy

Delta, she is the scum. I had this planned out from the beginning. I'm at work currently and on my phone, so I can't explain now, but as soon as I get home I'll explain. But trust me, she's it.

[DeltaWave]

This is exciting! I'm the deciding vote in LyLo. Cool. Too bad I'm not scum, I would totally win right now. But unfortunately, I am actually a Vanilla Townie. SO! I'm going to wait to hear your explanation Grimm.

But, things are looking very bad for you Grimm. No matter how shady I find Lopsy, you are acting like obvscum. You kept claiming you were too busy to post. Then you asked in thread for a deadline extension while simultaneously reiterating that you were busy. Yet, at the same time, you were active in other games on the forum. Then you ask the mod

not

to extend the deadline. That's enough for me to drop the hammer right now.

I will hear you out though. But holy shit you are scum.

[Grimmjow]

Ok, so I figured that an extension wouldn't actually be granted. I asked for an extension hoping that scum would disagree with the extension. If either of you had said "No, I don't want an extension" then it would be obvious they were scum, and bam, we win. However, that didn't happen. So I PM'd VM to tell him NOT to extend the deadline and that I wanted it known that I was the one that said don't extend it. Rationale: I knew that I'd come under fire, and I know that I can get out of it because I am town, however, whomever first opened the can of worms was scum. I'd come under fire, scum immediately latch on.

Now, I know that's not enough to convince you, so here we go.

I halfway thought that Lopsy was scum. I called her out on it yesterDay and if you read her responses, most of it was "yeah, so?" and the rest was crap. Look at her responses, Delta, seriously. Here, I'll make it easier.

here

The first thing, she didn't respond to at all. The second: does that sound sincere at all to you? The third she admits to trying to fake being a cop. What townie would do that? She even said she was trying to draw the NK. By acting like a cop. But the NK didn't hit her. Fourth is her infamous "Grey seems town" post, and her response was "oops." Keep in mind: when Grey got a guilty on him

she never once votes Grey and toys with the idea continuously of "Grey might be town."

The only time she took a firm stance on Grey being scum was JUST before his lynch. When she said that she has actually been coming to a lot of peoples' aid during the game, the only one she brought up was Thomith, and that wasn't coming to his aid, that was "

trying to help Thomith defend himself

." This is not the same as coming to his aid and soft defending him like she did with Grey. Note also that she continuously pushes people to look away from her (see her "If I were a cop" comment, and "isn't this considered a scumtell?" comment).

Look at yesterDay's ending as well. She essentially REFUSED to be the hammer vote on Thomith. Yes, she did keep saying "I'll hammer" but she never did. I ended up hammering him. With the deadline so close, I knew I wasn't going to convince anyone that she was scum, and I figured that she wouldn't NK me because I would be pushing her, so she couldn't have the attention drawn to her like that. When I opened up toDay looking more at you than at her, I wanted her to feel like "oh, well he doesn't have anything on me."

The only reason I can figure out that she didn't NK you either was because you had enough heat on you already. Killing you off would make it harder to pin anything on someone else. Especially since she said she had the towniest read on V2V.

Two more quick things that I wanted to point out as I was reading through. NO ONE has voted Lopsy at all this game except me yesterDay. If she's NOT scum, how the fuck is she still alive? Since no one thought she was scum, getting all the way to LyLo is insanely rare.

Last thing: when JAM came in and said that he thought Lopsy was scum, Grey's reaction was "What, seriously?" But then he drops it. He doesn't say anything at all about it.

Delta, I'm telling you, man, she's scum. Go back and look at her posts, and look at her responses to my questions. Does it look legit to you? Does it look like she's been trying to you? By tunneling on you the whole game, she prevented herself from having to commit to anything else. She continuously makes comments like "oh, these people might be scummy" or "I'd be ok with this person and this person's lynch," but doesn't do anything to try to push it herself. She has not actively pushed ANYONE'S lynch.

[vijay2vasandani]

@Mod: Since I replaced in and this is taking forever (due to having to re-hash everything and replacing in so close to the end of the game), if it came down to it, can we possibly get an extension so that I can have a little bit more time? Having 1.5 Days is completely different from having 4 like the other two have had. Just a thought.

Unless we have some freak accident near the deadline or something (if the site goes down, or something, and forces me to missed the deadline), I most likely will not grant an extension (see rule 16).

If you all can agree on it though, I'll add 36 hours to the deadline. All three of you, mind.

EDIT: Also, just put in vijay's NK flavor.

WOOOOOP! I'm awesome XD and so is VM.

Sorry, I won't do that again