Antrax Returns: Game Over.

[the silent speaker]

His posts just make me more and more sure he's mafia.

This seems to imply that you weren't and aren't 100% sure about IS, but your certainty is less uncertain than it was based on posts IS has made since your last. Is that a fair statement, Antrax?
mathcam: you still haven't answered my question. Why, since you weren't working off Antrax's logic, did you feel it necessary to mention it when posting a vote based on nighgt results?

[Sketchwick]

Vote count, 10 to lynch, no deadline:

6 jadesmar (rite, Cadmium, mathcam, mneme, Quailman, Mr Gnome)
3 mathcam (massive, jadesmar, IS)
1 IS (Antrax)
1 Antrax (The silent speaker)
1 The silent speaker (Coolbot)
1 Coolbot (NanookTheWolf)
1 MMCL (mole)

Not voting: Jaguar, Flying Dutchman, MMCL, Tigris, Yaw

[Antrax]

This seems to imply that you weren't and aren't 100% sure about IS, but your certainty is less uncertain than it was based on posts IS has made since your last. Is that a fair statement, Antrax?

You're on to me! I can't handle the pressure! I'm actually the Godfather mason mafia cop and I'm only piling suspicion on IS because he's the robot renegade rollerblade-wielding rebel. Damn you and your wily ways, you got a confession out of me.
Or in other words, huh? What do you mean I wasn't sure? Before I looked IS in my book of mafia roles and saw "Internet Stranger, Antrax Returns Invitational - Mafia". So I voted for him. However, he kept posting and posting, and then during the Kol Nidrei prayer God came to me in a vision and said to me "Antrax, my child. IS is mafia, really, honest, I guarantee it, you can take my word on it, I'm good for it", so now I'm extra super duper mega sure absolutely certain he's mafia, hence my reinforced belief. I never vote on anything less than full certainty, unless it's day one, and then I sometimes settle for "absolutely positive".

[MMCL]

oooh - Godfather mason mafia cop? What choices did you make last night?

Seriously... I am not sure about IS, mathcam, jadesmar or Antrax just yet... I'm curious as to why mole still has his vote on me however....

Could all four be a scum group? and splitting themselves into two groups of two? Each dobbing an innocent in and getting 'cleared' as a result?

[Antrax]

Godfather mason mafia cop? What choices did you make last night?

I chose to go all-in with Aces from late position (my stack: 800, blinds 100/200) to a raise, got called by kings, and had quads flopped on me. Very annoying role

[MMCL]

Ouch...! Nasty... lucky I didn't target you with my twizzler last night then, it would have flipped all flops and left you stuck at Paddington Station.

[mole]

And there's my reason for voting for you. I can't help but wonder why you didn't leave Antrax at Paddington, when using your twizzler would give you enough gold pieces to win the game on Day Three (perhaps Night Four, if someone counters, but still, it's a guaranteed win). I think you're trying to help out one of the players on the red line.

Unvote: MMCL

, we can all keep an eye on him now he's slipped up and revealed his nefarious plot.

[mole]

I'm going to

Vote: Quailman

. I think he's being a bit careless with his vote for jadesmar--it may be better than a random lynch, but we don't get that great a benefit from it. I'd also like to hear his response to tss's question about mneme's (and his) logic in voting for jade originally.

[mathcam]

mathcam: you still haven't answered my question. Why, since you weren't working off Antrax's logic, did you feel it necessary to mention it when posting a vote based on nighgt results?

I

was

working off of Antrax' logic with respect to the IS stance...I thought Antrax made a fair point with respect to IS and though I would concur with him. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.

Cam

[MMCL]

*is thoroughly confused*

[the silent speaker]

I thought Antrax made a fair point with respect to IS and though I would concur with him. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding your question.

I was wondering why you felt it necessary to concur with him in that post particularly, seeing as it had nothing to do with the rest of your post.

Antrax, it was a simple question. Why so incensed?

[mathcam]

Ah, no particular reason other than it didn't really make sense to double-post my two distinct thoughts. (I know, 2 at once?)

Cam

[Antrax]

Antrax, it was a simple question. Why so incensed?

I don't like filler posts. Yours simply said nothing, at length.

[mneme]

(irtcam)

Ok.
But what's to talk about? IS made a crack about how Anthrax survived, that being a touch unusual (of course, IS surviving is also somewhat unusual), and Anthrax referenced a previous time (or was it two) where this was a tactic used by IS when he was scum. Yet...it -is- classless to kill the person the game is in the honor of on night 1 (actually, I think it's classless to kill people who "always" get killed on night one -- why not let people play, just a little?), and if IS thinks it's unusual enough for Anthrax to survive night 1, I can see him referencing this as easily as town as scum.

In fact, I could easily see this as a sign that IS is town as scum -- it might show he hasn't thought about the issue much (ie, didn't have to make a decision of whether to off Anthrax).

[Antrax]

A-n-t-r-a-x. No 'h'.

[mneme]

A-n-t-r-a-x. No 'h'.

Yes, I can see you're back, all right. :)

Welcome back, Antrax. (maybe if I think of it as uber-ants, I'll eventually get it).

[the silent speaker]

I don't like filler posts. Yours simply said nothing, at length.

Hardly. I was fishing for responses from you, so I could get a feel for how scummy you are or aren't. I didn't get quite what I was looking for, but I do believe I have what I needed to find. Vote stands, but is no longer random.

[Cadmium]

One part of the interaction I find interesting is Cad's vote with ambiguous reasons.

Would that be Cam's vote ?

There are two "leads" right now, the IS/Antrax situation and the jadesmar/mathcam situation.

I don't really see that much in the arguments that IS and/or Antrax are using. Maybe IS did try to keep Antrax alive in other games in order to point at him later on. But this combined with the current situation could mean several things:

1. IS is mafia and tries to frame Antrax again by leaving him alive and commenting on it.
   
2. Antrax is mafia and tries to defend himself/frame IS because of his comment by suggesting #1.
   
3. IS and Antrax are both mafia and are accusing each other to confuse the town.
   
4. IS and Antrax are both townies and are accusing each other because that's what they always do.

I'm going for #4 here, so that leaves me with the jadesmar/mathcam situation.

Mathcam seems to have some sort of information on jadesmar. He told us that his vote wasn't entirely random. That hardly seems like a claim to me, it could be based on anything. If left alone, the baddies wouldn't know enough to figure this out and/or base their kill on it. For all they know, he's just a cowardly townie. But the interesting part always comes after that. For some reason, mafia tends to fish for roles. And that's exactly what happened here too. Here are the ones that stuck out to me:

Mathcam has claimed something he did last night makes it likely that Jade is scum (ie, cop, psuedocop, role blocker, etc).

BTW, Mathcam: based on the events of last night, the "I think there is some chance that Jade is scum, but I can't be certain" argument does point to some obvious hypotheses on what your role could be.

From what Cam's said, my current guess is that it would be best for jadesmar to let us in on what he was doing last night first, then see if that matches with what Cam knows

Can someone explain to me why anyone on the side of the town, would provide the mafia with clues to his role and keep the role secret from the town?

If you provide the mafia with clues, you also provide the town with clues. If you keep your role secret from the town, you also keep the role secret from the mafia ... Or maybe he has a crap role that can only do good once .

My first theory was that mathcam was an insane or backward investigator, who somehow investigated me as scum but why would a cop provide clues in such an obtuse manner, in such a way that a doctor may miss the claim, because the mafia probably won't.

I don't understand this. The doctor may miss the claim but the mafia won't?

This is a good chance to confirm for yourself what your role can do (I'm sensing some subtext that you're getting ambiguous results to some extent) as well as help us out in scum-catching, so we shouldn't be squandering it.

As for the whole Mathcam thing, I'm not sure why he would hint at his role like this. If you don't know if you are insane, paranoid or normale, why wouldn't you wait a couple of nights?

An assumption that mathcam is a cop. Yet there was nothing that pointed that way.

Mathcam, just because I'm concerned that you may have some kind of role that depends on things being asked to you, and I believe the cat is pretty close to being out of the bag already:

Are you some kind of cop?

The most direct one so far!

Cam's hedging made me think he had a gunsmith-style role, which is why I approached the situation the way I did.

Frankly, that would have been my first choice too.

I'm trying very hard not to mislead the town, so let me come out and say that I'm neither a cop nor a gunsmith (nor, for that matter, a goober).

This is the result of asking about his role on and on.

It's nice of you to confirm that I'm right about what you aren't, but it isn't especially helpful. I'm not asking for a full claim. But is there any way you could at least throw me a bone?

I agree it's a little suspicious that mathcam "claimed" that soon, since there was no need for it at the time. But now that he did, I think we should make use of it. I don't see why following someone day one who's vote isn't "entirely random" is worse than bandwagoning a random player. Also, I think "claiming" like this on the first day when being mafia will do more harm than good. Why take the risk of getting yourself lynched after the town finds out that they lynched an innocent? Just to get this other person lynched? There's no way for the mafia to know who has which role now and sacrificing yourself for a random player makes no sense. I think that of all the games I was in, I've never seen mafia claim a role on day one when they weren't forced to. I have seen pro-town players do this. Also, I think jadesmar's non-claim is suspicious. When being bandwagoned, claiming "I'm not a cop" is something everyone else would have assumed for themselves.

I don't understand what kind of role mathcam may have if night events lead him to believe that this is a good vote.

This quote makes me believe mathcam more. I think there was something odd going on last night, and if there was, you should at least know why there could be confusion if you're not mafia.

I'm keeping my vote on jadesmar.

I find it hard to believe

both

of them have super secret roles that can't be mentioned.

Are you asking for claims on day 1!?

I don't get this. A lot of people seemed to be "asking" for a claim, so why is Coolbot's comment suspicious enough for FD to mention and the other, way more obvious comments (like rite's) not?

FOS: Flying Dutchman

[CoolBot]

To keep the pressure on jadesmar, who looks like he's trying to hide something,

vote: jadesmar

And cubsfan, whould you rather we all hint at our roles? Mafia have more info than townies, so they are more likely to figure the hints out than we are.

[Cadmium]

And cubsfan, whould you rather we all hint at our roles?

Cubsfan ?

[mathcam]

(irtcam)

?

Cam

[Tigris]

Nope twas you ^_^, whom I am paying close attention to in this game because you and discer are the two who consistently seem innocent to me, while occasionally being not so much (werebear I know is just the opposite of my first instinct, strange that). Oh and it had to do with a paranoid theory that likely has no basis in reality, like many of my theories here ^_^.

Vote: jadesmar

Call it a hunch, call it random, call it whatever you want.

irt=in regards to imo=in my opinion

Anyhows, I think that FD might have implied both role-claiming would be bad on day 1; however, it still sounds strange and in order for any cop claim to occur on day 1, two people have to claim, so

fos: FD

.

At this point, I actually want the mathcam/jadesmar thing to quiet down, yes I realize this will make me look suspicious if one/both turn out to be suspicious, but continuing to discuss it will only help the killers figure out what roles are against them. That said

vote: IS

, I'm curious enough now to wonder what this might lead to. I was contemplating Quail as well, but I don't agree with mole entirely, so . . .

[Quailman]

4. IS and Antrax are both townies and are accusing each other because that's what they always do.

That's what I'm leaning toward, though I would allow for the possibility that they are not both townies, but are accusing each other because that's what they always do.

And still, I'm voting for Jadesmar, because of Mathcam's initial comment. It may help us nail a scum today (a day one rarity), or it may not. If Jadesmar is innocent, then I think a lot of fingers will be pointed at Mathcam.

[Jaguar]

Hey all, my apologies for being absent for most of this weekend. I ended up working both days with my hubby as he's superbusy. I make a good plumber's apprentice

Anyhoo, I never thought about the possibility of a gunsmith type role, but it sure makes sense (*shows ignorance of some more common uncommon roles*).

I do think that going on something is better than going on nothing and I haven't felt the need to vote Mathcam because of this. If anything, I am more inclined to vote jadesmar especially since jadesmar came out saying he is not a cop...

For now I'll keep my vote to myself.

[mathcam]

This quote makes me believe mathcam more. I think there was something odd going on last night, and if there was, you should at least know why there could be confusion if you're not mafia.

Agreed, I now believe me more too.

I'll keep my vote on jadesmar and am now a little more confident that I'm right.

Cam