{Survivor: Names Are Hard Island} ~ GG

[xRECKONERx]

Let's examine this:

STAY OUT OF MY TERRITORY!

Just kidding, you're welcome on Brode Island.

So how's it going? Happy with our tribe?

I picked you solely because anyone who likes Breaking Bad is an A+ in my book.

yeah, Actually you and Doge were at the top of my submitted 'snake'

internally: uh okay a one line response and nothing about Breaking Bad or any happy shit, he's just grumpy sorta? Maybe he's a newbie, lemme see...

Oh, for real? That's awesome! So how experienced are you with these here Survivor games?

What made you choose me/Doge?

Have you had any contact with the rest of our tribe yet?

*17 hours pass with nothing*

Hey man! Haven't heard from you -- how was your night/morning?

*9 more hours pass with nothing*

How do you feel we did in the challenge?

I think we did pretty well;
Apart from some luckier refreshes, I don't think our time will be easily be - we had a good system and everyone was responsive.

You did pretty well in organization in both challenges- have you talked alliances with anybody yet?

So -- from my perspective, you were abrasive/short from our very first PM together, then disappeared for over 24 hours in the very critical early stages of the game... and then want to know about alliances immediately upon sending your second actual PM. It had nothing to do w/ you being a newbie (I asked, you never responded) and had nothing to do with any alliances or anything. Early game is super critical and falling behind at all early can be devastating, especially considering how everyone early on just wants to push a consensus boot and not rock the boat.

[Fluminator]

It's possible to get close with some people and not do small talk. I don't think I did any small talk at all with Frenchie and he was one of my closer allies. As the game went on it got less and less common all around.
(I still complained about school to people only because they were forced to pretend to care.)

[Narninian]

oh from reading confessionals its certainly appeared that the game of survivor started in the midgame/after a few boots, but you need fake small talk to get there, which is fairly garbage.
It can't possibly be a coincidence that 5 newbies in a row were booted. Its not like we were all inactive/not invested in the game. I was invested/active I just didn't want to talk about people's lives outside the game.

Now that I know that is policy to look for an easy boot early from people that don't want fake conversations early -- I could be a better survivor player. I'm not just sure I want to since it was so unenjoyable for me.

[Flameaxe]

It's possible to get close with some people and not do small talk. I don't think I did any small talk at all with Frenchie and he was one of my closer allies. As the game went on it got less and less common all around.
(I still complained about school to people only because they were forced to pretend to care.)

Hey, I didn't pretend to care

We bonded over our educational misery

[D3f3nd3r]

I'm actually known (sort of) on here for complaining about bitchy teachers. Why didn't you bitch to me about them?

[xRECKONERx]

oh from reading confessionals its certainly appeared that the game of survivor started in the midgame/after a few boots, but you need fake small talk to get there, which is fairly garbage.
It can't possibly be a coincidence that 5 newbies in a row were booted. Its not like we were all inactive/not invested in the game. I was invested/active I just didn't want to talk about people's lives outside the game.

Now that I know that is policy to look for an easy boot early from people that don't want fake conversations early -- I could be a better survivor player. I'm not just sure I want to since it was so unenjoyable for me.

What do you expect to happen early?

In those first 24-48 hours when you were inactive and not responding to anyone, I had already:
- Secured a trio alliance with Star & Doge
- Made a deal w/ Dave
- Buddied up to HTTP (and he asked me for an alliance)
- Started to circulate you + Jagger for possibilities for first vote (just by telling people I 'was not thrilled' with my convos so far)

The game was being played, it was just being played without you because you weren't around or communicating with anyone.

I was where you were back during... Conclave, maybe. I don't exactly remember. There was a game that happened where I was first boot or something and I was *shocked*, simply because I thought I was doing well with convos/keeping up, only to find out I had nothing on what the rest of my tribe was doing.

And I don't think it's newbie related. Last game, Hyrule, a newbie made it all the way to FTC, and another was a likely winner/favorite if she hadn't been blindsided due to her social threat.

[xRECKONERx]

Also, didn't a newbie win Doctor Who?

[Flameaxe]

Negative

[Narninian]

Ever wanted to play in a Survivor game but the whole thing seems intimidating? Signups have now opened for this super duper cool back-to-basics Survivor game!

12/10 for first-timers!!

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=60895

/lynch CuddlyCaucasian

I thought it was going to be newbies and thus wasn't trying to conform to a meta.

[Narninian]

oh from reading confessionals its certainly appeared that the game of survivor started in the midgame/after a few boots, but you need fake small talk to get there, which is fairly garbage.
It can't possibly be a coincidence that 5 newbies in a row were booted. Its not like we were all inactive/not invested in the game. I was invested/active I just didn't want to talk about people's lives outside the game.

Now that I know that is policy to look for an easy boot early from people that don't want fake conversations early -- I could be a better survivor player. I'm not just sure I want to since it was so unenjoyable for me.

What do you expect to happen early?

In those first 24-48 hours when you were inactive and not responding to anyone, I had already:
- Secured a trio alliance with Star & Doge
- Made a deal w/ Dave
- Buddied up to HTTP (and he asked me for an alliance)
- Started to circulate you + Jagger for possibilities for first vote (just by telling people I 'was not thrilled' with my convos so far)

The game was being played, it was just being played without you because you weren't around or communicating with anyone.

I was where you were back during... Conclave, maybe. I don't exactly remember. There was a game that happened where I was first boot or something and I was *shocked*, simply because I thought I was doing well with convos/keeping up, only to find out I had nothing on what the rest of my tribe was doing.

And I don't think it's newbie related. Last game, Hyrule, a newbie made it all the way to FTC, and another was a likely winner/favorite if she hadn't been blindsided due to her social threat.

Thats the thing.... I was looking for alliances BUT WAS TOLD ITS TOO EARLY.... I obviously wasn't just going to offer/ask everyone.

[Flameaxe]

^this totally happens every game. There's always some mystical rule about chatting casually and then something about the game stuff coming in "naturally". Its idiotic, but probably set in stone with the mentality of players

[Axxle]

Thats the thing.... I was looking for alliances BUT WAS TOLD ITS TOO EARLY.... I obviously wasn't just going to offer/ask everyone.

It wasn't "too early" in a time sense, it was "too early" in regard towards conversations with you.

Because it's an anonymous game, nobody knows how you in particular will offer alliances. From the perspective of the players you were offering them to all they saw was a person who was basically offering alliances with nothing to back it up, they couldn't trust you to keep them.

[Narninian]

They were specifically refering to when the game started. I didn't even offer one yet, they just didn't want to talk at all about who they wanted to work with because the 'game had just started' 2 days after it started.

[CuddlyCaucasian]

Also, didn't a newbie win Doctor Who?

Nope, but a newbie won Hogwarts, and TWO newbies made it to the final three in Conclave. It was just something about this game, really. I think the difference might be that the newbies who do well generally spectate a game first.

But I agree with Axxle's latest post, in an anonymous game, people aren't going to commit to an alliance with you if they know nothing about you. It is a social game, after all, but you're right that the game doesn't get into high levels of strategy until a couple weeks in, after everyone has figured out who they want to trust.

[Narninian]

Also, didn't a newbie win Doctor Who?

Nope, but a newbie won Hogwarts, and TWO newbies made it to the final three in Conclave. It was just something about this game, really. I think the difference might be that the newbies who do well generally spectate a game first.

But I agree with Axxle's latest post, in an anonymous game, people aren't going to commit to an alliance with you if they know nothing about you. It is a social game, after all, but you're right that the game doesn't get into high levels of strategy until a couple weeks in, after everyone has figured out who they want to trust.

Not sure I'd call StD a newbie, he's been orging since before he joined the site 2004.

That being said he's awesome.

[DeathNote]

oh from reading confessionals its certainly appeared that the game of survivor started in the midgame/after a few boots, but you need fake small talk to get there, which is fairly garbage.
It can't possibly be a coincidence that 5 newbies in a row were booted. Its not like we were all inactive/not invested in the game. I was invested/active I just didn't want to talk about people's lives outside the game.

Now that I know that is policy to look for an easy boot early from people that don't want fake conversations early -- I could be a better survivor player. I'm not just sure I want to since it was so unenjoyable for me.

Hey Narninian,

I think you are underestimating the power of first impressions. Sure, coasting during the early game is easy but only if you are social enough to make a strong first impression. It doesn't require loads of effort but yes, effort is required.

[Narninian]

oh, I know Im not underestimating it at *all*; I was eliminated for it after all.

Wasn't trying to coast though. nor was I lacking "effort".

[DeathNote]

Wasn't stating you were, simply stating early game is a good time to coast but if you don't feel like you need to be super active early game to stay in, then I have to disagree because that is when you make your first impressions and those are what get you to the real heart of Survivor Mid Game.

[Brian Skies]

I feel bad for melting the ice cube, but we never exchanged PM's, even after he learned there was a PM system. I just assumed he flaked. Julie was...not fun to talk to and I did make several attempts before I just decided she was dead to me. I don't mind working with newbies or replacements because we all have to start somewhere, but they never gave me a reason to care. Flumy was awesome. He told me he was new and I didn't like his early attempts at smalltalk, but I felt we were in similar positions early on in the tribe and he always talked to me as though we were allied (even though we never made it official until the Dweebs). He didn't completely trust me (for good reason), but the thought of voting him out never crossed my mind (although he was starting to look more and more like a threat to me as the game went on).

I think a good way to integrate newer players into the PM system or pre-established meta is to include some tips or reminders in acceptance PM's. Something like "be sure to talk to the other players using

the PM system

" or "make sure you've read all the game rules" or "a good first impression can go a long way" or whatever might make their chances of surviving early on a little bit easier for them.

In all the games I've played, I've always had a late start and been in a less than favorable position from the get go. But I think as long as you keep at it and give people a reason to keep you around (whether it be being useful at challenges or slowly getting people to like you), I think it's recoverable. This game is a marathon, and some people's games are bound to eventually drop or show cracks.

[Snakes]

But I agree with Axxle's latest post, in an anonymous game, people aren't going to commit to an alliance with you if they know nothing about you. It is a social game, after all, but you're right that the game doesn't get into high levels of strategy until a couple weeks in, after everyone has figured out who they want to trust.

Pretty much this. Not everyone is going to be as wordy as I am and that's fine, but I want to at least get to know someone before jumping into an alliance with them. Otherwise I'm picking based off of character choice or challenge performance and I have no idea if they're going to be loyal or trustworthy. It also comes across a lot better if you have a little bit of a conversation with someone before offering to work together. Then they'll assume you want to work with them because you like them. If you offer an alliance to someone after one response, it's going to come out of nowhere and they'll have no idea if they can trust you.

And yeah, newbies can definitely do well. I won the first game I played, and all of the best players on the site were newbies at one point.

[Marquis]

trendhopping

[SleepyKrew]

You guys are lame

[Klick]

My two cents, and basically a rephrasing of what has already been said: the reason casual game talk doesn't work early on is because, if it were to happen, no one would trust anything anyone said. If Player A starts off discussing alliances from the get-go with every single player on the tribe, what reason would any other player have to make an alliance with Player A? There has to be some basis on which people decide who they talk true strategy with early on. And that is why small-talk is essential to the early-game; it gives the other players some idea of who you are and lets them read into whether or not you would be a decent ally.

This does make me wonder, though - @everyone: How do you decide on who you want your early allies to be? What is your criteria? I haven't thought much about how that happens for me. I tend to go for certain-looking players each game, depending on how I want to play. Sometimes I'll seek out strong social players I can share a powerful alliance with, and other times I'll look for followers I can lead. Being able to at least hold a conversation, even if it's a small one, is a necessity though.

[Cybele]

Hogwarts was effectively StD's first game of survivor. Being a part of the site doesn't give the experience to know this game or its meta.

[xofelf]

Hogwarts was effectively StD's first game of survivor. Being a part of the site doesn't give the experience to know this game or its meta.

That's not true. It was Fen's second game. He played one of the really early nonanon games on site.