Mini 578 - Mistery at Montescuro - Game Over!

[DarlaBlueEyes]

agreed, Yos is keeping his cards very close, and I don't think you are to blame for Coron. If anyone were to legitimately be called out I would see a better case against me or guardian.

[Yosarian2]

That's because I don't trust him. He's playing his cards close to his chest, and he's trying to force an attack on me right now, saying that I helped whip up the sudden Coron lynch (which I didn't, I just cast the first vote and left) and voting me for trying to lynch a power role (which is easy to do only now that I've been proven wrong).

Um, I thought it was a bad idea yesterday, if you remember. I thought all along that Coron was probably pro-town, I argued it several times yesterday, and you never gave a good reason why you thought he was scum. You still haven't.

And it's not like you "just cast one vote and left". You were attacking Coron, either directly or indirectly, from pretty much the moment he claimed, often with really, really scummy comments like:

I'll take a townie who plays well over a tracker who doesn't anyday.

And even today, you claim you thought that he was "trying to create mass confusion." How, exactally, does a tracker claim create mass confusion? Either people believe it, in which case, ok, there's a tracker, or they don't, in which case they attack him, or they do the smart thing and decide to take a wait and see attitude and see if the scum kill him or if he gets useful results for a night or two. None of those possible reactions could possibly "create mass confusion" in any way that could benifit Coron.

And yes, you're right, it is easy to attack you after you've helped push through a completly terrible lynch on a claimed power role on day 1 for reasons that make no sense at all. There's a very good reason for that, you know.

[mikeburnfire]

You argued it ONCE yesterday, and you never gave a good reason why he COULDNT be scum.
My arguments against him did eventually lead to his death, but I am not the only one who thought his actions were suspicious, as evidence by the fact that he was eventually lynched. Even you admitted yesterday that his claim was weird and a mistake as town. It's funny how strongly you're defending him only after he's dead.

[Near]

MBF, lynch macvenger. What do you think?

[Macavenger]

Hey guys, sorry I haven't had a chance to comment on the new day here yet - had a busy couple of days again. Should be able to post something tomorrow unless more surprises come up.

[Joudas]

MBF, lynch macvenger. What do you think?

That's coming strait out of right field, isn't it? Where'd this come from?

[Dasquian]

He's going from the Guardian Book of Scum-Hunting

[Yosarian2]

You argued it ONCE yesterday, and you never gave a good reason why he COULDNT be scum.

No, I didn't "argue it once", that's just false; I spend 3 posts yesterday explaining why I thought Coron was more likely pro-town, why I thought the attacks on him didn't make any sense or were flawed, and why I generally thought he was a bad lynch.

I don't get any of this. Coron's claim dosn't make any sense, but I thought he looked pretty pro-town before the claim, and I think he's still pretty likely to be town now. The random claim seems...well, random, but it's not exactally something that would benifit scum in this situation. The idea that he randomally claimed tracker to try to DERAIL a Near wagon makes absolutly NO sense at all to me; how would him claiming a power role make it less likely that near gets lynched here?

Still pretty happy with my vote on DarlaBlueEyes. Her random "I am now certain Coron is scum" comment makes little sense, just seems to be going with the flow of what other people had said recently, and generally just feels scummy. The fact that she seems happy with either a Near lynch or a Coron lynch makes me unhappy about supporting either.

Why shouldn't I be happy with either? Both have exhibited Suspicious behavior, and Coron's timing is enough to cause dissent and split the vote, and IMO his intent was to get me lynched to save both his and his scumbuddy's neck.

That still dosn't make any sense. Why would coron claiming tracker get people to unvote Near? Or do you really think that Coron claimed tracker just to get people to vote for HIM so they'd unvote Near? That would not only be terrible scum stratagy, it dosn't even make any sense; there's no reason to think people should be MORE likely to vote someone just because they claimed a protown power role. (And, btw, there IS no reason why people SHOULD be more likely to vote someone just because they claimed a pro-town power role; "he claimed tracker so he's scum" dosn't at all follow).

He suddenly claims as a deadline looms? and Near is one vote shy of a Lynch?

Again, it's a BAD play for him to claim here, but I don't see what it has to do with the Near wagon. People like you and MikeBurnFire reacted in a wierd way to his claim, and you're saying that you're reacting like this to his claim because his claim was scummy and his claim was scummy becuase it'd make you react like this. Uhhh....

Mike: I do agree his claim was wierd, and was a mistake if he's pro-town. But I still don't see how that fits your theory; if anything, him claiming a power role would be most logically expected to get people to unvote him/decide not to lynch him today/whatever, and if people stopped voting him, they'd actually be more likely to vote near, wouldn't they?

I donno, I guess I kind of subscribe to the old Jeep theory that most people on some level really want to tell you what their role is.

And of COURSE I never gave any "reason to think he couldn't be scum"; at this point of the game, barring a cop innocent or something, ANYONE COULD be scum. But I thought he was more likely pro-town then not, I explained why, and I CERTANLY thought he'd be a terrible lynch.

Basically, this is my problem with your behavior yesterday, Mike. Usually, if someone claims an information role, most pro-town people are more reluctent to lynch him then they would have been otherwise; that only makes sense, after all. I occasioanlly see a pro-town person who was so convinced that X was scum that even after X claims a role like that, he's still willing to lynch X despite that. But I have trouble seeing how a pro-town person who dosn't suspect person X beforehand suddenly want to lynch person X after he claims; that just dosn't make sense to me.

My arguments against him did eventually lead to his death, but I am not the only one who thought his actions were suspicious, as evidence by the fact that he was eventually lynched. Even you admitted yesterday that his claim was weird and a mistake as town. It's funny how strongly you're defending him only after he's dead.

Uh, I defended him pretty strongly before he was dead, thank you very much.

[Yosarian2]

agreed, Yos is keeping his cards very close, and I don't think you are to blame for Coron. If anyone were to legitimately be called out I would see a better case against me or guardian.

Well, perhaps. Now that you've actually claimed, I'm not especally interested in lynching you today, though, especally since your claim makes sense; I could very easily see a watcher and a tracker in the same game. Also, while I hate Guardian's actions during the Coron lynch, I thought he looked pro-town earlier in the day before that.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I agree, I just don't see a guardian as scum right now. (Now I could be wrong I am not the best at reading people)

I still find Mac's comment about being unwilling to vote Dasq at all odd, but as stated somewhere previously they could be masons. I would need more evidence for me personally to vote MBF but I do have a very

slight

FoS on him.

[mikeburnfire]

You protested more than I noticed, Yosarian. I will give you that. But I will not apologize for not understanding Coron's actions. He claimed to be a ambiguous power role for faulty reasons near the deadline, and requested doctor protection. These are actions of a scum.

[Singing Librarian]

Vote: Guardian

I don't like the way he led the crusade against Coron, but I do have to admit that it didn't seem to serve any likely purpose for scum unless Near needed to be kept alive for some reason - the only thing I can think is that scum would rather see a claimed power role than claimed vanilla townie dead. However, as that is currently the most worrying thing I can see about anyone in the game, it's what I'll have to go with.

[Yosarian2]

You protested more than I noticed, Yosarian. I will give you that. But I will not apologize for not understanding Coron's actions. He claimed to be a ambiguous power role for faulty reasons near the deadline, and requested doctor protection. These are actions of a scum.

Um, or else they're the actions of a pro-town power role who thinks he needs doc protection? It bothers me that you apparently never even considered the possibily he might have been telling the truth.

And I don't see what was "ambiguous" about his claim; his claim was compeltly clear, it was DBE who made an ambiguas claim yesterday.

Did you really think that a scum would claim to be tracker, and be put in the really risky and difficult position of having to fake a tracker claim every single night and of facing the risk of a counterclaim, just in order to have a chance of drawing doc protection on day 1? Have you EVER seen a scum do that? And drawing doc protection away from who, exactally? No one else had even claimed when Coron claimed.

Also, something else that really bothers me about your play.

My vote was on Coron as a protest vote because I didn't want to lynch either of the main candidates. Even though I didn't trust Coron and heavily advocated his lynch, the way in which it was achieved was utter stupidity. He went from zero votes to majority votes in under 12 hours. Had I been awake around this time of deadline I would have unvoted him based on this evidence alone.

So, let me get this streight. You didn't like either of the two biggest bandwagons, on the night of the deadline, and so you placed a "protest" vote somewhere else and went to bed.

What did you think that would accomplish? If you didn't want to get Coron lynched, then what were you trying to do? Were you hoping for a no-lynch? Or were you just assuming that Near would be lynched and didn't want to be on the wagon when it happened?

Besides which, you spent, by my count, 12 seperate posts attacking Coron after his claim. That's more then a third of all the posts you've made all game. And now you expect us to believe you would have unvoted him before deadline to prevent his lynch if you'd only been around?

[mikeburnfire]

I meant that his results would be ambiguous.

Yes, I was hoping for a no-lynch.

Yes, I would have unvoted him before deadline if he was being speedlynched.

[Near]

MBF, lynch macvenger. What do you think?

That's coming strait out of right field, isn't it? Where'd this come from?

My post 737.

[Yosarian2]

Yes, I was hoping for a no-lynch.

*blinks*

Well, I honestly didn't expect you to actually admit to that...

You really would rather no-lynch on day 1, rather then either lynch a claimed vanillia or rather then at least try to lynch someone else? Why do you think that's a pro-town stratagy?

[Joudas]

Yes, I was hoping for a no-lynch.

Whoa. Then let me ask you this: Why did you put your vote on someone at all? If a no lynch was really your idea of a pro-town move, why not just unvote and leave it at that? There is no divine edict that demands you be voting for someone at the end of the day, and there is no way that having a vote on someone generates a greater chance of a no lynch. I don't buy this answer one bit. Try again.

[mikeburnfire]

Good grief.

Given the current crop of candidates on the list, Near and DBE, and the impending deadline, I didn't feel comfortable with lynching either of them. I put my vote on Coron because I felt he deserved it more and would have liked to have to have

eventually

lynched him. I didn't want to speed-lynch him.

[Near]

DBE, here's a question for you.
You claimed watcher. If this is true, wouldn't you have thought that Coron's claim of tracker goes pretty well with your alignment? Tracker is a rather rare power role, as is a watcher (as I understand it). Two not-so-common, less powerful investigative roles together make up for a lack of a cop (I am assuming this). Seems like it would be pretty natural to posit something like this.

[Near]

I want to repeat what I said in post 737. I think Mac is a better lynch than Guardian. Guardian has shown symptoms of being an confused, psychotic townie who "knows" he's right. While Guardian could have done this in order to manipulate the town for thinking what I am thinking, it makes not much sense for Macvenger to go along with Guardian's less than convincing argument to lynch a claimed power role.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

Being that I am new, I hadn't realize until he claimed that there was a tracker role. I knew of watcher, and assumed it was fairly common as It was always in my games when I played in the past.

That being said, I <obviously naively> assumed it was a lie, when combined with his timing. Therefor I heavily regret the badwagoning on him. If we do have a cop it would be helpful to have a claim, and if Mac and Guardian are mason's That also would help as a claim, or else we have one refusing to vote the other no matter what.. which is definitely suspect.

[Macavenger]

Ok, a couple notes about last night's lynch.

I was not convinced by Guardian's pushing last night, nor was I just lynching Coron because he claimed tracker at a bad time. I expressed suspicion of Coron in at least 3 posts yesterday (here, here, and here), and believed he had possibly anti-town motivations based on that, long before he claimed. His claim timing didn't really help matters. Basically, I hadn't seen anything I considered especially pro-town from him, and I was lightly suspicious of VampanezeHunter before he replaced out. I lynched Coron mostly based on this stuff. Guardian's pushing actually made it a bit harder, as I mentioned in the runup to deadline. Overall I went with the fact that I had seen things I considered anti-town from Coron, and had not seen anything particularly pro-town.

I'm really not sure where this Mac/Das scumpair bit is coming from. There's a very simple, easy, and correct explanation for why I wouldn't vote him yesterday, which is that I think he's most likely pro-town. I have not yet seen a case on Dasquian that makes sense to me this game.

As for today, MBF's recent responses seem very strange. Aiming for a no-lynch is generally really bad Day 1 to my understanding, and I don't really like the way he's trying to blow off Yos' questions.

DBE, why did you target Dasquian last night as a Watcher?

I'm not ready to vote yet today.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I was testing a theory, No one else targeted him, which means, either he is scum (no real evidence so far) or he isn't which could mean a lot of things.

I am inclined to believe we have either one or both Cop/Doc and I am doubtful Guardian is either of those things.

Right now after rereading and reviewing everything I am having my suspicons on Guardian reaffirmed. I was n00bsh to jump on the bandwagon so quickly (there was some lingering OMGUS attitude towards Coron for his 'crusade' if you will, against me. Because I knew I was a watcher but I wasn't so sure he was actually a tracker.) However a Near lynch wasn't sitting quite right with me at the time, so I went with it.

All that to say Guardian's push for a Coron lynch really seemed out of no where, and his 'Trust Me' well I am afraid I don't have as much trust for him anymore.

(man I feel like I am rambling..sorry =/)

FoS Guardian

[Macavenger]

Right, no one targetted him, which means almost nothing. Did you have reason to believe anyone would target him last night? If you think he's suspicious, why not target someone you think he might kill?

[DarlaBlueEyes]

well I was concerned someone might try to kill him when the 'lets bandwagon Dasquian' option was brought forth late last night. I was taking a chance on Guardian being protected.

It wasn't the best choice but I was rushed and made a decision.