[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Empking]

3 Mafia (win scorched Earth)

9 Townies

Each night the mafia can either plant a bomb or sacrifice a member to blow up th bombs.

No, this makes it much harder for mafia to win

and

impossible to win in a 1mafia 2townie scenario. (town just nolynches each turn).

It's more balanced as it was before.

How is it impossible to win in 1 mafia 2 townies?

[nhammen]

Because the mafia has to blow himself up to kill the townies... Thus meaning there are no mafia left. In other words, mafia LOSE.

[Mr. Flay]

Isn't that what winning Scorched Earth means?

[nhammen]

I did not know what that term meant... OK, then it works.

[Nikanor]

I have not made up a name yet

Nikanor Mafia

.
-3 Mafia Goons
-1 Town Stalker (Tracker who dies if the person they target is killed)
-1 Town One-shot Vigilante
-1 Town Doctor
-6 Town Vanillae

It has been suggested that I put in a mafia power role, but with the possibility of day two lylo with the setup I have now, I think it might make my game a bit too scum-favoured (if it wasn't already).
Any thoughts?

[Octupis]

Set Up

1. Godfather
2. Goon
3. Doctor
4. Cop/Saulus
5. Miller
6. Vanilla Townie
7. Vanilla Townie
8. Vanilla Townie
9. Vanilla Townie

What do you think?

Be nice

[yabbaguy]

@Nik-904: can the Doc save the Stalker from an indirect kill? (ie: their target died?)

@Oct-905: You're going to get a Follow the Cop situation with a cop and a doc in the same setup. Or does "Saulus" mean macho cop, much like a Bird setup?

[nhammen]

4. Cop/Saulus

What do you mean here? There is a cop that is pro-mafia until he is lynched? If this is the case, it enables the town to confirm the cop. If it is something else, please give more detail.

[Octupis]

@Oct-905: You're going to get a Follow the Cop situation with a cop and a doc in the same setup. Or does "Saulus" mean macho cop, much like a Bird setup?

http://mikeburnfire.sitesled.com/mscumB.swf

Sorry, the above link calls it Saulus but the Wiki entry calls it Judas. The basic premise being that a pro town cop starts the game and if he is targetted by the mafia he becomes a mafia cop.

[Octupis]

4. Cop/Saulus

What do you mean here? There is a cop that is pro-mafia until he is lynched? If this is the case, it enables the town to confirm the cop. If it is something else, please give more detail.

Sorry for the confusion. The other way round. I have been muddled up because I used the above link rather than the wiki at first.

[Netlava]

Daytalk, Daykill Mafia (Nightless)
- 1 Mafia Godfather
- 2 Mafia Goon (with 1 daykill apiece)
- 3 Vigilante (with 1 daykill apiece)
- 6 Townie

Mafia are allowed to PM each other outside the thread. Kills are posted publicly in the thread. Mafia Goons need "permission" (Godfather PMs the mod) to kill if the Godfather is alive and active.

If the set-up is overpowered for the scum, maybe an auto-loss if the Godfather is lynched (not killed). Thoughts?

[The Fonz]

Yeah. Saulus and Judas are opposites. They're also non-normal roles. I would suggest that that game swings on how quickly the doc dies. It either becomes follow the cop, or the scum quickly kill the cop, which makes it really easy for them to win. I'm just not sure it would be fun.

[Hoopla]

Daytalk, Daykill Mafia (Nightless)
- 1 Mafia Godfather
- 2 Mafia Goon (with 1 daykill apiece)
- 3 Vigilante (with 1 daykill apiece)
- 6 Townie

Mafia are allowed to PM each other outside the thread. Kills are posted publicly in the thread. Mafia Goons need "permission" (Godfather PMs the mod) to kill if the Godfather is alive and active.

If the set-up is overpowered for the scum, maybe an auto-loss if the Godfather is lynched (not killed). Thoughts?

If I were town in that game, I'd propose the vigs DO NOT shoot ever, except to shoot those that break the rule. This forces scum to play along with a nightless 3:9 which seems tough for scum to win, with only two kills.

That might not break it completely, but I'm sure there are probably ways for this to be quite town biased.

[Hoopla]

If I were town in that game, I'd propose the vigs DO NOT shoot ever, except to shoot those that break the rule. This forces scum to play along with a nightless 3:9 which seems tough for scum to win, with only two kills.

That might not break it completely, but I'm sure there are probably ways for this to be quite town biased.

Maybe, all vigs claim straight up. If only the 3 vigs claim, you have 3 confirmed town players. This won't happen, so 1 or 2 scum would have to claim vig too, to muddy the water.

If you have 4 claimed vigs, ask them to shoot themself, one at a time until you find scum (town can vote on the order). The strategy works if there are 5 claimed vigs also.

[Octupis]

Yeah. Saulus and Judas are opposites. They're also non-normal roles. I would suggest that that game swings on how quickly the doc dies. It either becomes follow the cop, or the scum quickly kill the cop, which makes it really easy for them to win. I'm just not sure it would be fun.

Well back to the drawing board. Thanks...

[Netlava]

Eh, I suppose that is a good point.

[Yosarian2]

Daytalk, Daykill Mafia (Nightless)
- 1 Mafia Godfather
- 2 Mafia Goon (with 1 daykill apiece)
- 3 Vigilante (with 1 daykill apiece)
- 6 Townie

Mafia are allowed to PM each other outside the thread. Kills are posted publicly in the thread. Mafia Goons need "permission" (Godfather PMs the mod) to kill if the Godfather is alive and active.

If the set-up is overpowered for the scum, maybe an auto-loss if the Godfather is lynched (not killed). Thoughts?

If I were town in that game, I'd propose the vigs DO NOT shoot ever, except to shoot those that break the rule. This forces scum to play along with a nightless 3:9 which seems tough for scum to win, with only two kills.

That might not break it completely, but I'm sure there are probably ways for this to be quite town biased.

Well...it's nightless 3:9, but whenver a mafia goon is about to get lynched, he'll take a townie down with him.

So, if the town never use their daykills...town has to lynch...let me think...if the godfather gets lynched last, then town loses if they mislynch 6 times, they have to lynch right 3 times out of 9; town has to lynch right 1/3 of the time.

Yeah, it's in favor of the town, considering that that's about what would happen if town lynches randomally.

In practice, though, attempts on the part of the town to restrict people from using daykills has been...abysmal at best.

[Hoopla]

Well...it's nightless 3:9, but whenver a mafia goon is about to get lynched, he'll take a townie down with him.

So, if the town never use their daykills...town has to lynch...let me think...if the godfather gets lynched last, then town loses if they mislynch 6 times, they have to lynch right 3 times out of 9; town has to lynch right 1/3 of the time.

Yeah, it's in favor of the town, considering that that's about what would happen if town lynches randomally.

In practice, though, attempts on the part of the town to restrict people from using daykills has been...abysmal at best.

Mmm yes, which is why I prompty changed the town plan to this;

Maybe, all vigs claim straight up. If only the 3 vigs claim, you have 3 confirmed town players. This won't happen, so 1 or 2 scum would have to claim vig too, to muddy the water.

If you have 4 claimed vigs, ask them to shoot themself, one at a time until you find scum (town can vote on the order). The strategy works if there are 5 claimed vigs also.

That makes it a lot harder for scum, and practically speaking, has a more realistic chance of actually happening.

[yabbaguy]

Proposal: Dethy 2.0

3 Vanilla Townies
2 Millers (to Skewed Cop)
1 Sane Cop
1 Skewed Cop

2 Scum

Daystart

Naivete: Millers are merely told they are town, both cops are merely told they are a cop, Millers are shown as Vanilla Town upon death. Cops' sanities are never revealed in game. "Player X, Cop, has died"

Sane Cop receives GUILTY only on Scum, and can see the Miller's innocence, Skewed Cop only receives GUILTY on Millers, and INNOCENT on Scum.

Scum have a standard NK.

---

What do you all think?

[yabbaguy]

One thing I'm debating... whether the cops should headstart or not.

[Nikanor]

@Yabba, about my game: No, the doc cannot protect the stalker from death-by-stalking, only targetted nightkills.

@Yabba, about his game: I think it sounds fun. Only thing that sounds like a problem to me is the four investigations town will have if the cops are allowed to live to day two. Sanities can be confirmed by the killing of a miller, which can happen by lynch or nightkill. Scum can falseclaim cop for as long as both cops stay alive, which is nice for them. Looks balanced to me, but someone with experience should probably take a look at it as well.

[yabbaguy]

What interactions did you have in mind for your game, Nik? What I find interesting is that if the Tracker finds that someone's been targetted, and they die, the probability of them being scum is extremely high.

Now remember, at best, the Skewed Cop can confirm town, and at worst, cause havoc. What this mainly relies on is that the cops may not be able to claim until much, much later.

Hey, why should I stop at Millers getting revealed?

Basically, the thing that drives this setup is that claims can't always be trusted. It's not just your standard "claim doc, claim cop, badaboom" spiel you get in most other Open games. Here, you really have to consider if the results are viable, or if the claim is even accurate as opposed to camouflaging scum. If scum claims cop and gets a townie lynched "Oh, sorry, I'm apparently skewed." This becomes incredibly easy if I choose to keep Millers hidden as well, while the Cops can still find out their sanity if one of their guilty subjects dies.

[Nikanor]

What interactions did you have in mind for your game, Nik? What I find interesting is that if the Tracker finds that someone's been targetted, and they die, the probability of them being scum is extremely high.

That's why I threw the vig in there.
I'm thinking of putting a Scum Roleblocker in as well, to balance out the power roles a little, and to help prevent a follow-the-cop situation.

Your setup looks really fun, Yabba. I'm looking forward to playing in it.

[yabbaguy]

Is that a nominate, Nik?

[Nikanor]

A nominate? Eh, what?