Mini 1227: Small Town Scumbags - Over!

[killerjester]

Oh, oh I'm kind of excited about this. But first, an apology.

Sorry for lying saulres. You see, I was pretty certain you were town by how you got David lynched. But of course,

announcing

this would've surely made you the nightkill and then I'd have to guess which one of Beck/Zdenek was the scum. I called you scummy so that Beck-scum would've probably killed Zdenek or so that Zdenek-scum would've probably killed Beck.

[saulres]

LOL.

Or, of course, you set that up so when you killed Beck, you could come back with this story. WIFOM anyone? I mean, if you really think I'm town, then why didn't you put your vote on "Zdenek-scum"?

You didn't happen to breadcrumb that you were lying, did you?

Any

thing to make that story more believable?

Also why exactly are you "kind of excited about this"?

Although I have my leanings from my memory, I'm going to have to review this thread a lot before I call either of you scummier than the other. At this point of the game there's no way I'm rushing into placing a vote.

[saulres]

What changed your reads from scumteam DX and Garuru to Saulres (Garuru's slot) being individually scummy for attacking DX??

I thought DX and Garuru were independently scummy. The no kill changed my read on DX.

My reason for thinking that Saures was scummy for his entry post is moot because of DX's lynch and the NK of Whiskers, and on top of that he caught DX. I still think that Beck is town, Parama is town. So

Vote Themarshal

Zdenek:

I was V/LA when Themarshall was lynched so couldn't ask this then. Please explain your thinking on this post, specifically why killerjester isn't mentioned at all. In this post you say I'm town, Beck's town, and Parama's town, and so voted Themarshall without mentioning JK at all.

[killerjester]

Haha I'm not expecting you to believe me. The object of the gambit was to keep you alive, not to convince you that I was gambitting. And so I didn't really breadcrumb at all.

Why do you want me to vote Zdenek so quick?

[saulres]

Why do you think I want you to? Because I asked why you didn't? I just figured if you had full reads and had decided that I was town, and you were town, then you'd place your vote. But I don't expect you to.

It doesn't really matter to me if you do it or not, though. I'm not going to hammer either of you until I know where I want my vote to fall, which should be sometime tomorrow.

Although really if I voted for you I could blame it on, let's see....

Everyone else

who was in the game after I replaced in. Because (other than DX and possibly Whiskers) they

all

called you scum

[Zdenek]

Zdenek:

I was V/LA when Themarshall was lynched so couldn't ask this then. Please explain your thinking on this post, specifically why killerjester isn't mentioned at all. In this post you say I'm town, Beck's town, and Parama's town, and so voted Themarshall without mentioning JK at all.

I didn't mention killerjester because I didn't really have an opinion on him then; nothing he'd done really stood out to me at that point to where I could say that he was scum or town. I also felt that marshal was scummy, so that's where my vote went.

As for the rest of that post, I didn't like your entry post because it looked like you were setting up the lynches of both Whiskers and DX, but that ceased to be relevant when Whiskers was nightkilled. Even if he was killed acting as body guard, I presume that's because he was guarding Parama, and it was pretty clear that is what he was going to do that night, so if you didn't want him dead you wouldn't have shot there.

[killerjester]

Presumably, because you thought a bunch of people were town and then voted without reasoning on themarshall you were using PoE. Why did you feel themarshall was scummier than I was? And why didn't you mention it before?

[Zdenek]

On the day of the mass claim, I didn't have a chance to post because of the modkill occurring before the end of the mass-claim and DX was caught and lynched quickly. On that day, I already thought that Garuru was scummy and Saulres' first post only made me feel worse about that slot, so I voted him at the start of the day.

I can explain what I thought about you vs. Marshall, but not tonight because I have to go to sleep soon.

[killerjester]

Fair enough, we aren't exactly in a rush but I'd like to wrap this game up by Thursday because I have 30 hours of work this weekend, unless an extension is possible.

[Zdenek]

KillerJester, why did you vote for Marshall?

[killerjester]

I was pretty convinced he was scum. I read Parama and saulres as town, Beck had also been acting fairly townish D5, and Parama kind of offset my scumvibes on you to be honest.

[saulres]

Here's what I'm having trouble reconciling, KJ.

The object of the gambit was to keep you alive

You've done that.

Now what? Why were you keeping me alive? You haven't done anything at all as a result of that "gambit". So what was the point?

[Zdenek]

A few points on themarshall,

ISO 4, he attacks whiskers for voting Grimmjow. Also third party hunting.
Later he continues to attack Whiskers and defend Grimmjow.
ISO 29, he plays the newbie card.
His attack on DJ was very weak

[Zdenek]

I'm trying to reconcile the fact that Saulres as town should by all rights be dead (I strongly feel that Garuru wouid not have had the nerve to bus his buddy immediately upon replacing into the game because of his experience level and the amount of town cred he gets for that should have been enough to guarantee his dead last night) with the fact that I am pretty sure that killerjester is scum.

At the moment, my view of it is that killerjester as scum couldn't leave both Beck and I alive today because the two of us would have very likely lynched him, and he killed Beck to tell his gambit story and because Beck was the townier of the two of us.

On the other hand it also makes sense for Saulres to have killed Beck because Beck was suspicious of him, and I don't like the fact that killerjester completely ignores this when he theorizes about the NK.

I might not have a chance to post tonight, but I'll be back tomorrow evening at the latest.

[saulres]

I'm trying to reconcile the fact that Saulres as town should by all rights be dead (I strongly feel that Garuru wouid not have had the nerve to bus his buddy immediately upon replacing into the game because of his experience level and the amount of town cred he gets for that should have been enough to guarantee his dead last night) with the fact that I am pretty sure that killerjester is scum.

I don't see the conflict, we discussed it yesterday:

Scum is between saulres and Zdenek. I'm pretty sure it's saulres since I have seen scum try to grab towncred by catching the scumslip (staged or not) of a buddy before, but I guess all will be revealed tomorrow if I did hammer the no lynch. If I had to guess though, saulres is going to kill Beck because between him and Zdenek he's certainly the one less eager to vote me.

Nice way to set that up so when you kill Beck you can say "I called it," scum.

And then he didn't say "I called it", but he apologized and said it was a gambit to keep me alive. Outstanding question to him right now is "So your gambit worked, what was the point?"

As to the whole "caught David as a town cred move", obviously whatever I say is going to be taken with a large grain of WIFOM. But at the time I did it, I wasn't in immediate danger of being lynched, hell, the day had practically just started. If I were scum I could have easily sat back and just waited until I was in danger to pull that out. I did it when I did because I had just discovered it and was excited to finally have directly caught scum!

[killerjester]

Umm to make LyLo easier for me? I feel that if I had to choose between Beck and Zdenek I would've had a greater chance of choosing wrong.

I'm still trying to get why Zdenek didn't say anything about themarshall when he voted him?

[saulres]

Neither did you, you know.

Also why exactly are you "kind of excited about this"?

[saulres]

I'm so confused about this game it's not even funny.

Clarify this statement too please?

[saulres]

it also makes sense for Saulres to have killed Beck because Beck was suspicious of him

I don't think Beck was suspicious of me by day-end, though, after I posted everything he asked for. Look forward to finding out after the game's over.

In the meantime, I've been doing some Meta, and I found something interesting.

Bussing a scum buddy, while pushing a townie lynch is a common scum tactic.

makes this:

Scum: DX and Garuru.

look suspicious.

While that may be weak, I think this is pretty solid:

VOTE: DavidX

Good 'nuff, so he lied about Verity being N1 because he figured the less people semi-cleared the better.

yep that seems to be the case

who gives a damn. or two.

I give a damn. Or two.

Why? Because I believe you. David needed to cover his ass and only report blocking people he was 100% sure wouldn't blow his cover. Far too risky with a claim like this to "block" anyone who might be able to report "No, I had a night action and it wasn't blocked."

N1 was Verity, last night was

Zdenek

.

If that's not enough, let's look at his first claimed "block":

who did you block night 1?

Hayker

.

That's solid enough for me to make this vote, even in this situation.

VOTE: Zdenek

[Zdenek]

That is nonsense. Saulres has been trying hurry today from the start and that post was crazy, it looks like he is just pandering to killerjester.

Vote Saulres

[Zdenek]

1. Saulres' meta argument is terrible. It

is

a common scum tactic to FoS a buddy while bussing a townie, and in this game I found both Saulres' slot and DX suspicious.
2. His second two quotes are irrelevant to my alignment, so are just padding.
3. Hayker would have been a good bet to be VT simply because of his lack of activity, not contributing and not trying to stay alive. He said that he blocked me after we claimed, making that part of his argument irrelevant too.

[saulres]

I've been hurrying today? Seriously? Show me where.

1. Saulres' meta argument is terrible. It

is

a common scum tactic to FoS a buddy while bussing a townie, and in this game I found both Saulres' slot and DX suspicious.

Yes, and I said it was weak, and that I found it suspicious.

2. His second two quotes are irrelevant to my alignment, so are just padding.

They're introduction to the case I make afterwards.

3. Hayker would have been a good bet to be VT simply because of his lack of activity, not contributing and not trying to stay alive. He said that he blocked me after we claimed, making that part of his argument irrelevant too.

Everyone left in the game claimed VT, bodyguard, or mason, so it's not irrelevant at all. If I were a cop at that point with no useful results I wouldn't have claimed it. David's best bet, especially as he thought at the time that he wouldn't be outed, would be to "protect" a scumbuddy.

Your OMGUS votes looks like scum panic as well. If you were town there'd be no reason to do it, you'd just make your counter-arguments and go looking for a real case against me.

[Zdenek]

killerjester, look at what has happened:

Yesterday, Saulres is suspicious of you.
Today you say that you are suspicious me.
Saulres spends today trying to get you to vote quickly, and he moves his suspicion of you onto me.
He's scum going for the quickest lynch he can.
If he was town, he'd have been killed by scum.

EBWOP:
You are obviously trying to hurry the day.
Why bother giving weak arguments this late in the day.
My vote is not OMGUS, it's killerjester can't be lynched because I am being voted, so either town has lost because you are wrong, or you are scum. So I have to vote you.

[Zdenek]

As far as that last line goes, if you were town, you would know that, and not be accusing me of OMGUS for what is obviously my only option at this point.

[saulres]

Sorry. It felt like an OMGUS, but I suppose you're right, if I'm wrong then I've given KJ the game and you as town really would have no other option. But I believe the argument is strong enough that that's not going to be the case. I've been looking for a solid case for quite some time, because the last time I was in this situation I went on gut and cost us the game. This time I'm looking for logic, because my gut still says otherwise. If you see a flaw in my logic, by all means point it out.

And I still don't see how I'm trying to hurry the day. Would you say I was trying to hurry the day when I caught David? I found something solid and I went with it.