Open 558: Hope Plus 1 (GAME OVER!)

[Marcrell]

If you were mafia, how would you have played differently?

Probably been more active.

I tend to check these things more when I'm in the hunted party. Probably stuck by my reads more,

finding better reasons

, instead of just running.

Please explain why you would be more active and why you would find better reasons.

Would have town-read Shaded more. I town-read him beginning of game, would probably have been more vocal with it and stuck with him for longer.

Wouldn't have hesitated as much when Shaded wanted me to vote him.

Oh? Shaded wanted you to vote him.

Is that what he told you in your scum quick topic?

SCUM SLIP!?!?!?! I was leaning towards voting Marcrell already, but unless he can come up with a good explanation for this, I'm almost certain.

Why would I be more active? Paranoia. I don't get on much and put out what I notice, constructing the post with reasons later. If I was mafia, I'd be more worried about the game, thereby motivating me to check it more. I'd also have reads constructed with reasons at the beginning, as I would worry more about being suspected then getting reads out quickly before I have to leave the site.
I should have clarified. By him, I meant tn. You can see I hesitated in voting tn.

[awestfie]

Never mind, friend isn't coming over. I'm here, I guess.

Responding to your question now, Wicked.

P-Edit: and going to read what Marcrell just posted, give me 2-5 minutes.

[awestfie]

Are you willing to lynch Marcrell right now?

Here's why I think he's scum and feel free to agree and disagree with me.

A) Post 383. Scum tends to be the one one who tries and keep all possibilities open and not town; it's one of the most inefficient way of scum hunting and that post just seemed like a way to potentially out a scum read on me later, but even if he decided not to do so it wouldn't look all that "bad."

B) Hesitating to post things in the fear of being night-killed. I honestly don't buy it, here's why: even I, as scum, if I knew Marcrell was the doctor; I still wouldn't have killed him because he was one of the least town person; what would benefit me in killing him? Nothing. I don't see why Marcrell hesitated to post some things when he knew that he wouldn't be night-killed ever and that there was much better targets than him. I think someone who's aligned with town should never hesitate to post anything, even as PR, since it makes most of your post look unnatural and ultimately it just makes you look like scum.

C) The interactions between Shaded and Marcrell all look bad. I don't need to repeat myself on this and I think we both heavily agree on this.

...there's one issue I've with ProHawk, I disagree with the fact that he would've had no reason to counter-claim there, as scum. I think him claiming would've been perfect for scum considering letting Marcrell be clear when both Wicked and I had a pro-town game would've been suicide.

What do you think?

[awestfie]

Even if you voted Marcrell here and asked me to hammer him, at this point; I don't think I would do it. And if I would, it wouldn't be instant. I'm not that confident about him being scum and that's what's bothering me. I've said this before and I'll say it again; I'm not much help here since I've a problem with town-reading newbs far too easily, again; no offense, Marcrell.

[awestfie]

Meh.

[ProHawk]

I had a pro-town game would've been suicide.

You did not have the most pro-town game. At all. I could have ripped you apart and Titus would have helped.

[awestfie]

Nah, you couldn't have.

[ProHawk]

Too bad you didn't get to find out huh?

[awestfie]

Or, I mean: yeah, you could have. Except you'd be hesitant to do that as scum and you'd just jump on the easy lynch instead aka Titus.

Too bad you didn't get to find out huh?

Too bad; you voted town, that day.

[awestfie]

Nah, what's really too bad is that you requested a tl;dr, put Titus at L-1 and ultimately giving Shaded an easy way out of that day since both Wicked and I suspected him.

[awestfie]

You hadn't even read the game, at that point; yet were confident enough to put someone at L-1 knowing that it would put us into LYLO the next day.

[awestfie]

That's too bad.

[ProHawk]

You think I didn't read the game because your hammer was bad? Riiight.

I don't care what your explanation for the hammer was. It was BAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD (see what I did there?). FYI I read the game when I voted Titus/randomidget. I wasn't voting them to put us into LYLO I was voting them to murder scum. I read the game when I thought you could have been scum for your hammer. It wasn't that long of a game. If you think I am scum put your money where your mouth is and quit pussy-footing around. I am tired of this game. I already know who the last scum is, and there is no scum-hunting that I have to do. It's boring. I have been in this state since the last game day and you guys are dragging this thing out until the last possible second.

I actually wish Kodama would have drawn scum so that I could have driven you into the ground.

giving Shaded an easy way out of that day

LoL, are you insane? This is what conf-scummed him.

[awestfie]

You think I didn't read the game because your hammer was bad? :cool: Riiight.

I don't care what your explanation for the hammer was. It was BAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD (see what I did there?). FYI I read the game when I voted Titus/randomidget. I wasn't voting them to put us into LYLO I was voting them to murder scum. I read the game when I thought you could have been scum for your hammer. It wasn't that long of a game. If you think I am scum put your money where your mouth is and quit pussy-footing around. I am tired of this game. I already know who the last scum is, and there is no scum-hunting that I have to do. It's boring. I have been in this state since the last game day and you guys are dragging this thing out until the last possible second.

I actually wish Kodama would have drawn scum so that I could have driven you into the ground.

giving Shaded an easy way out of that day

LoL, are you insane? This is what conf-scummed him.

Which one of my hammer was bad, the one on Thomas? I still don't see it as bad and Thomas didn't play a town-game at all, feel free to disagree with me, though.

You voted Titus, the town, to murder scum? Who cares, if what Shaded did there confirmed him as scum? It would be much better to just get him lynched right then on that day instead of enabling him to quick-hammer. We're dragging this out till the last second? I'm sure it's really easy for you since all you did was claim doctor and got counter-claimed; you literally had nothing to do this entire game and yet you're still being arrogant.

I really wish you did flip town because the amount of terrible posts you've had outweighs the amount Thomas and tn had; and that's saying a lot. I honestly don't care if you end up winning as scum here; you would of had nothing to do with it and instead Kodama would have given you the free win by replacing out with no content, so who cares.

[awestfie]

"This game is so easy, I just replaced and wow.. you guys are really taking forever to lynch the mafia, can't you see how EASY this game is?"

[ProHawk]

I really wish you did flip town because the amount of terrible posts you've had outweighs the amount Thomas and tn had; and that's saying a lot. I honestly don't care if you end up winning as scum here; you would of had nothing to do with it

What the hell is wrong with you? Get over yourself.

[Marcrell]

I would be in favor of the game resolving soon, as I'm basically just prod-dodging at this point. But if you're still deliberating, we can wait. Nobody's going anywhere.

[awestfie]

Alright, fairly sure ProHawk's town here; think his reactions there were mostly town here and I can see where most of his frustration is coming from. Sorry, if you took it personal, I was trying to get some tells from you; and wanted to see what you would say.

His logic about him being able to not CC and just attempt to have me lynched and keep Titus alive for the next day is accurate considering Titus was voting me and if Shaded was scum with him it would've guaranteed 3 votes on me; the only thing that bothers me about that is that I don't think Wicked would hammer me in that situation, but it's possible that Marcrell would've, if he was town.

Although it would've mostly looked odd that he didn't vote Titus that day, I think he could've easily have set it up to get Titus lynched the next day and just collect his win; Marcrell was FoS'ing Titus' slot and if Marcrell was town in that situation then all Shaded and ProHawk had to do is keep Titus/Marcrell alive for a near-auto-win on the next day.

Wicked?

[Wickedestjr]

Catching up now.

[Wickedestjr]

Two other things that bother me about Marcrell;
-If Shaded was scum and Marcrell was town, then why would Shaded bother defending Marcrell? Can't see his motivation there.
-Something feels missing from Marcrell's counterclaim. Surprise or frustration perhaps. Almost feels like he knew he would have to counterclaim.

I town read both scum day 1. I retracted 1, but the thought had been there.

You retracted both town reads...

[awestfie]

Yeah, there's a huge lack of emotion, I found; from Marcrell. Meanwhile, there actually is a genuine frustration coming from ProHawk when I provoke him. I think it's possible that Marcrell is just discouraged at this point and that he sees there's no way he can win this which would match with his lack of emotions in any of his posts; they just feel entirely bland.

[Wickedestjr]

1. He stated that he saved no one on night 3 which; I doubt scum would do. I very likely think scum would just say they saved someone who didn't die. He also said he saved Ragnarok on the night that Ragnarok died; again, I really don't see scum stating that instead of just saying he saved someone else. Town-tell.

2. The interactions between him and Shaded at the end of day 2 just seemed overly artificial and Marcrell found it odd that Shaded town-read him randomly yet he didn't point it out until the next day despite there being 2 days left on that day. If you had a concern about his town-read on you, why wouldn't you question it before hammering? Scum-tell.

3. Lack of posting (I don't think this means all that much, but he has been here since the start and already ProHawk has more posts than him) and actually just a lack of outing reads; Marcrell never really outed many reads and when he did there never really was much reasoning behind them. It felt like most time he outed reads was because he was pressured into it and not because he actually wanted to do it. To me, this looks like someone who didn't want to scum-hunt at all. Null leaning scum-tell.

Continuation of 3: Marcrell said before that he was hesitant to post some things in the fear of being night killed and never I, as town, was hesitant to post anything. As town you'd be more than willing to out your opinion to the other people in the game as it helps them read you easier; even if you think your reads and/or thoughts are bad. I'm personally not hesitant to post anything as scum, but I could see why someone would be.

I agree with pretty much everything here. *Good posting*

The site will be unavailable starting 2AM EDT on Saturday, August 9th, to address some issues we have been having lately. Downtime should be under an hour, but as with anything could extend beyond that.

Hopefully this doesn't affect us.

I should have clarified. By him, I meant tn. You can see I hesitated in voting tn.

In the post in question you were talking about Shaded and then said you hesitated to vote "him" which implies that you hesitated to vote Shaded. Not sure I believe your explanation, but it makes sense.

[Wickedestjr]

B) Hesitating to post things in the fear of being night-killed. I honestly don't buy it, here's why: even I, as scum, if I knew Marcrell was the doctor; I still wouldn't have killed him because he was one of the least town person; what would benefit me in killing him? Nothing. I don't see why Marcrell hesitated to post some things when he knew that he wouldn't be night-killed ever and that there was much better targets than him. I think someone who's aligned with town should never hesitate to post anything, even as PR, since it makes most of your post look unnatural and ultimately it just makes you look like scum.

I'm not sure about it either. Feels a little disingenuous. He said that, twice, he ignored my question to him (question regarding randomidget) because he was afraid randomidget would night kill him. I've seen power roles play reserved in the past, so that on its own doesn't bother me (even though I disagree with that technique) - but reservation to the point that he avoided talking about random or answering my question about him seems like too much.

...there's one issue I've with ProHawk, I disagree with the fact that he would've had no reason to counter-claim there, as scum. I think him claiming would've been perfect for scum considering letting Marcrell be clear when both Wicked and I had a pro-town game would've been suicide.

What do you think?

I agree with you. ProHawk had great motivation to counter claim as scum. Because if he was scum and didn't counterclaim then it would've been an easy win because Marcrell, a suspicious player, would have been confirmed town. I've been questioning ProHawk about this to try and see if he really believes what he's saying because I disagree with his opinion that he wouldn't have cc'd as scum. Still not sure he genuinely believes that.

[awestfie]

...Marcrell is just discouraged at this point and that he sees there's no way he can win this which would match with his lack of emotions in any of his posts...

To clarify: To me, it looks like Marcrell is discouraged from his recent posts. Most of those recent posts just feel incredibly bland and to me it almost looks like Marcrell gave up, at this point. The problem with this sort of read is: I think Marcrell would potentially feel the same way as town here since he has been called scum for the last 2 (3?) days and I think it'd be normal for anyone, town or mafia, to be discouraged at this point.

P-Edit: I still believe that ProHawk would've claimed doctor here as scum, because he couldn't risk for Marcrell to be doctor here, since it would rise up some suspicion on him, considering the slot he replaced into. I think it would've been silly for ProHawk not to claim here, as scum.

[Rob14]

bump