Discworld Mafia: Anarchy in Ankh Morpork (Night 7) Choices!

[Werebear]

I don't know whether Corsato being unvoted today will still make him technically Patrician for the day, and thus immune from lynch, so for now I'll
RAG: Corsato
RAG and Vote:Werebear
RAG: Leonidas
RAG: Cadmium

*RAG = Reveal as guilty

Also

FOS: JWW

For the false Vet claim yesterday

What a bonus for the thieves... they get the patrician unvoted, they make SURE you don't keep a Patrician in office more than two terms (so sooner or later they'll have someone in as Patrician), they got me as guilty, they get another assassin lynched (sorry about the letter to you, Leonidas), they'll get two more lynches out of this without them having to worry. (me, and a non-assassin - either Corsato or Cadmium) while they continue to work quietly. Three lynch-free days, guaranteed. All this because we tried to recruit a thief. One thing I must say... amazing work, Porro. I don't know how you could have milked this more.

...unless you're working with SK somehow, and are independant of the thieves... naah. I'll stick to theory one.

[Porro]

I don't know whether Corsato being unvoted today will still make him technically Patrician for the day, and thus immune from lynch, so for now I'll
RAG: Corsato
RAG and Vote:Werebear
RAG: Leonidas
RAG: Cadmium

*RAG = Reveal as guilty

Also

FOS: JWW

For the false Vet claim yesterday

What a bonus for the thieves... they get the patrician unvoted, they make SURE you don't keep a Patrician in office more than two terms (so sooner or later they'll have someone in as Patrician), they got me as guilty, they get another assassin lynched (sorry about the letter to you, Leonidas), they'll get two more lynches out of this without them having to worry. (me, and a non-assassin - either Corsato or Cadmium) while they continue to work quietly. Three lynch-free days, guaranteed. All this because we tried to recruit a thief. One thing I must say... amazing work, Porro. I don't know how you could have milked this more.

...unless you're working with SK somehow, and are independant of the thieves... naah. I'll stick to theory one.

Thanks Werebear, I needed cheering up. And kudos for trying to help your teammates.

I'm happy to

unvote: Leonidas

and

vote Corsato

if everyone prefers, now that Werebear has 'outted' Leonidas. After all it'll prove I've been truthful if an undeclared assassin is killed.

I personally think that the other mafias will be disappointed that their (probable) win condition of serving two terms as Patrician has gone down the plughole.

Since Cadmium is described as our (the assassin's) mysterious patron, I don't know what his role will be revealed as. But he does seem to have been conspicuous by his absence But I'm sure he's been very busy IRL

On another note, I do realise that outting the assassins does somewhat assis the Thieves and Things. It'll probably tie the town up killing assassins, rather than possibly randomly lynching the other evils. But what choice did I have. I could have hardly kept quiet, and it's not like I could have persuaded the assassins to kill Thieves and Things at night, because I don't know who they are (yet?).

Go on Thieve's / Things I dare ya to recruit me

[Night Stalker]

Werebear, since you're in a confessing mood, would you mind telling us who, if anyone, the assassins killed aside from IS and Quercitron?

[Werebear]

Heya, Night Stalker! I have a better idea. Why don't I reveal the TRUE remaining members of the guild, then you guys can verify Porro by lynching one of THEM!!!

I owe the town nothing. With all due respect,

Vote: Go Stuff Yerself.

I was just going for the "I told you and told you but you didn't listen" bragging rights. He's helping you guys, all right. But he's helping himself first. *grin*

[mikegoo]

Can we just kill Leonidas and get this game moving again?

[Leonidas]

Yeah. And I want a glorious lynch scene. Lots of details.

[Green Crayons]

Why don't I reveal the TRUE remaining members of the guild, then you guys can verify Porro by lynching one of THEM!!!

Uh.. sure?

Leonidas isn't lynched - maybe because Corsato notified the mod that he wanted Leonidas to be pardoned? I would think that a mod would at least notify us of such action, though.

[mneme]

Note, btw, that at this point, the Asassins' best road to winning (assuming Porro is exactly what he says he is, which seems more and more likely with every about-face Werebear makes; you should have kept to your first story, dude. Or your second, or your third...) is to enable the town to find the remaining Things and Thieves, thus putting us in a situation where we have a target rich environment and a reason to lynch someone -other- than an Assassin occasionally. Of course, the Town's best intrest is this as well, sorta; in some ways, we'd be better off if Porro had never revealed the Guilds' identity, since this gives the other mafia a better chance to kill townies, rather than accidentally kill other mafia (thus maybe getting the town to the point where we can remove one of the mafia groups).

Actually, if anything, he may have done you a favor, since it makes for faster days...and makes you all much less likely to get killed at night, especially since we've lost our vigilante. (well, a vigilante, anyways).

I just really hope the Watch could recruit...and that we're not all out of Watchmen to do the recruiting in the first place.

[Corsato]

For the record, I'd like to state that I haven't used my ability to save Leonidas......yet. Though I'm tempted to save the town from blindly following a player who claims to be:
a) an assassin;
b) a traitor;
c) on the town's side.
What of his three claims made you believe him?? You believe a player who tries to convince the town that he hasn't got a named role (or refuses to give it), but has the power to infiltrate and give away a whole group?? And that without even questioning anything he says. The reason I will not save Leonidas is the fact that it would only hurt the assassin's guild more then it would do us good.

I admit that having a patrician in our mids for two consecutive periods is one of our main goals. It's one of our winning conditions. But if you think the whole town dies when we'd achieved that, you're wrong. As a good leader, I didn't share all the info I've gotten with my guild members, just to prevent things that just happened.

Porro: your vote is really stupid, as a patrician I can not be lynched today . You're starting to make mistakes. Starting to get worried because Werebear posted the complete truth about your role?? I suspect that the reason you refuse to claim a role is the fact that saying you are a thief won't help your case.

[mneme]

Ok. At this point, all three assassins have been admitted to -- Corsato and Werebear have confessed, and Werebear has admitted that Leonidas is an Assassin.

This means I have to review the post where I said:

>So...Leonidas, Corsato...if Porro -is- on the level, and you both confess, I'll switch my vote to >Cadmium. If lynching him turns the Assassins guild into a (mostly) pro-town group (or even >delays you), that's great; maybe we can all win, or at least get our information and our answers >too; if not, we'll have to do things the hard way.

So...holding myself to my word (or the spirit of same)...

[b[unvote Leonidas
vote: Cadmium[/b]

Reasons:

So far, everything Porro has told us has been proved true, and knowledge ot the books indicates that the Assassins can't kill without a patron (ie, being given money). So far, they've killed pretty indiscriminately, it looks like...but their role does feel like a "multi-person vigilante" (who can chose to kill or not to kill) role, all told, not a mafia group.

Given the randomness of the allowed Assassin kills, I can't believe that Cadmium is good, or at least, not without a role claim.

Even a 35 person game with 3 mafia groups seems pretty hard, especially if two of them have insta-win conditions and all can recruit. It also doesn't make much sense from the books...but that's not really necessary. In any case, I'm more inclined to believe that what we have here is one mason/vigilante group (Assassins), one masion/whatever group (Thieves) and one true mafia group (Things), with a major rivalry between the Assassins and the Thieves. I certainly -hope- that's what's going on, or I"m guessing the town is so dead it isn't even funny (let's see; 20 people left, 3 kills a day. So we've got a maxium of 6 days left to catch 11 mafia (assuming each start with one member and can recruit 4 times). Riiiight.... Even if they can only recruit 3 times (and Porro didn't count as a recruit), that's 8 mafia.

[Porro]

mneme. The mod told me that I did count as a recruit.

The assassins are mafia as far as they know. However, you may be right. The 'further instructions' may make them switch sides...but would you believe them if they told you that that had happened when Cadmium dies. I wouldn't

Corsato. You're not Patrician, you've been impeached. So I doubt that you're not unlynchable

Nice of you to pop in and say hello though, I thought you'd given up on the game due to your impending doom

[Dragon Slayer]

Alright, polotet has been buys this week and is not sure when he's going to get to post again. I'll e-mail him this afternoon to get things moving again. Though I'll probably just end up doing it myself. Actually, now that I think about it I'm not going to get to post again today either because of some practices and homework. Yeah- there's no way I'll get to post later and I dont' have the information (or time) to do it now. I'll try to get Polotet to give us a minute of his time to post.

[Cadmium]

Okay, here goes. Yes, I am the patron of the Assassins. I cannot kill anybody, all I can do is stop the money flow so the Assassins can't kill. But there’s another thing that Porro failed to mention. I never got the names of the assassins. In fact, it is my job to find out who they are. And thanks to Porro, I now know that Werebear is an assassin. Plus, if Werebear is telling the truth, I know Leonidas to be a member too. I already knew one member, because I made him/her leader of the guild after Mith died. I'm not telling his/her name though since even Porro failed to mention that. So, basically I think I know about the complete guild by now. Thank you so much, Porro .

At first, I wanted to keep this to myself, but looking at the fact that you guys already know too much and still can’t figure out who to lynch, it won’t hurt me one bit to confess this all. The worst thing that could happen is that you lynch me today. But you know what? Go ahead, and see what happens when I die. I just know you’re gonna smash your heads to the wall when you find out what those "further instructions" are.

This'll turn out to be a win-win situation for the assassins if you can't figure out how to stop this .

[Porro]

Okay, here goes. Yes, I am the patron of the Assassins. I cannot kill anybody, all I can do is stop the money flow so the Assassins can't kill. But there’s another thing that Porro failed to mention. I never got the names of the assassins. In fact, it is my job to find out who they are. And thanks to Porro, I now know that Werebear is an assassin. Plus, if Werebear is telling the truth, I know Leonidas to be a member too.

I already knew one member, because I made him/her leader of the guild after Mith died. I'm not telling his/her name though since even Porro failed to mention that

. So, basically I think I know about the complete guild by now. Thank you so much, Porro .

At first, I wanted to keep this to myself, but looking at the fact that you guys already know too much and still can’t figure out who to lynch, it won’t hurt me one bit to confess this all. The worst thing that could happen is that you lynch me today. But you know what? Go ahead, and see what happens when I die. I just know you’re gonna smash your heads to the wall when you find out what those "further instructions" are.

This'll turn out to be a win-win situation for the assassins if you can't figure out how to stop this .

That's a shame. I might have believed you if you hadn't said something that I know for a fact is a bare faced lie. Corsato is the guild leader, and 'received a note' telling him he was when mith died.

Whether you sent the note or not, I don't know. But I know that if you did, you sent it to Corsato.

[mneme]

ok. So Cadmium has been forced into the open.

This is not a bad thing...

Based on his "evil hints", and the current set of information, I think we're best (having smoked out our assassin group and vindicated Porro's honesty nicely, even if he -is- a thief) off killing werebear today.

Why?
1. I'd rather kill more senior Asassins, and he's Assassin #2
2. I'm unsure of whether Corsato leaves office as soon as he's voted out or at EOD.

So...

unvote Cadmium
vote: Werebear

[Cadmium]

I might have believed you if you hadn't said something that

I know

for a fact is a bare faced lie.

Wow, you're really starting to believe your own lies now, eh? Anyhow, you said it right,

you

know. In fact, you're the only one that knows. But what exactly do you know? You knew nothing about what I said in my previous post. I really have no idea what your trying to do exactly, but you're making up stuff besides the real truth. So I bet you've got a little scheme going on.
Anyway, see if I care. I know there's another leader, since I picked him/her. If you all want to believe Porro, fine. No loss for me .

[Corsato]

Porro: I have not given up, I firmly believe the town will come to it's senses, and lynch you. From what I understood I'm patrician until the end of the day.

So we are all in the open now?? Congrats to the thieves/things. We'll probably be lynched and killed in a few days now.

Since you seem to have trouble lynching someone, why don't we lynch JohnWWells for getting Vetinari killed.

[Porro]

I firmly believe the town will come to it's senses, and lynch you.

You mean you're not going to do the job on me tonight ?

[Porro]

Now that he's confessed, maybe killing Cadmium would be the best policy.

It may stop the assassin kills, or it may turn the assassins into townies, masons, or vigilantes.

The worst that I can think of happening is that they turn into Serial Killers, with a kill each, but even that may help the town get rid of the Things / Thieves, whilst the town would still know who the new SKs are, and can lynch them when need-be.

That could also force the Thieve/Things into killing the assassins overnight.

Who knows, if we lynch Cadmium, and the new instructions are pro-town, maybe the assassins won't kill me overnight.

Mmm That idea is growing on me

Unvote: Corsato
Vote: Cadmium

...What's the worst that can happen! (...I hope that's not famous last words)

[Porro]

Confirm Vote: Cadmium

for emphasis

[mneme]

I'm -guessing- that what will happen is that a new "patron" will be picked, by Cadmium as his successor, and he was referring to this as the "patron" wouldn't necessarily make the assassins any more likely to strike.

I'll follow the will of the majority, as long as we're killing -one- of these scum...Corsato, you have two votes; any preference which of you dies? I'm curious enough (and suspicious enough) about Cadmium's role (and subsequent goals and such) that I think I'd prefer him, even if it -does- doom the town.

And hey, it's certainly a -funny- situation, which is the point, ain't it?

unvote: werebear
vote: cadmium

(yeah, I know. Switching an awful lot, I am. But when you've got a target rich environment, what are you to do?)

On consideration, I'm guessing, btw, that cadmium doesn't know what happens when he dies -- that he's bluffing to try to keep himself alive. But then, we'll see...

[Night Stalker]

Werebear (and the rest of you), here's why you should tell us which night kills were yours: Because it'll help us track down the thieves and things. (and the possible SKs.)
More targets to lynch means you're more likely to live out the game. After all, where would JWW be right now if we hadn't found out about you guys?

[Porro]

I don't think Cadmium knows what happens when he dies.

I think he's bluffing about the 'win-win' situation for the assassins. After all he may have been randomly killed overnight by a different mafia - would the assassins have automatically won then. I doubt it.

I have just had an even worse thought, but it seems too powerful a proposition for the mods to have gone for. New worst case is that the mafia are adopted into the Thieves or Things mafia. But that would potentially give an 8 player mafia 8O I don't believe that that would happen.

So my plan is:

1. We lynch Cadmium. Now that he's confessed, we don't need to worry about how the mod describes his role.

2. I spend the night in the company of the assassins *gulp*

3a. If the assassins kill me overnight, they are still evil.

3b. If the assassins become pro-town overnight, they won't kill me, so I'll be able to tell the town. Of course, doc protection for me could help in case someone else tries to kill me.

3c. If I survive the night, but the assassins don't talk to me, and the mod confirms we are still evil, (i.e. I survive only because of doc protection) then I'll update the town tomorrow.

Now That plan looks like it should be acceptable to all the current pro-town roles, and the assassins. The only potential sufferers are Cadmium, the Thieves, and the Things.

Superduper ReConfirmVote: Cadmium

[JohnWWells]

I smell a rat. Vetinari was on the town's side, at least according to Veg, who we should probably believe, and he had to kill the leader of the Assassin's Guild. That would suggest that the assassins are anti-town. But why are they all confessing if they're anti-town? Wouldn't they be better off denying all connection to the guild and picking Porro to pieces?

I think we should be very, very careful - we really don't want to give the Things a helping hand. In fact, the person who has done the Things the most good right now is Porro, I bet. That's probably only because he's working with the Thieves, but this infighting is going to get us all killed, fast.

Maybe we should lynch one, and only one, Assassin, then look for clues in the death scene and in tonight's action. Bear in mind, it appears that the Assassins have already killed one Thing for us, which is better than we've done...

[Porro]

Fair point about Vet's need to kill the assassin leader JWW. But if the assassins don't turn good, kill them.

If you see a flaw in my plan, I'll listen, but it looks like milky goodness to me

BTW mith was the 'original' assassin leader, then Corsato inherited it.