Mini 1365: Generic Village Mafia - Game Over

[AngryPidgeon]

Where is the dead QT?

[Shamrock]

Chaos actually called Cooldog being the cop N2, we probably should have killed him but I'm not sure how much difference killing him over Techno would have made in the end. He wouldn't have had the guilty on me, but I probably woulda got lynched D3 anyway.

This is my first completed scum game since returning to the site. Like my first town game, I didn't expect to play particularly well, and indeed I didn't

[image]

Dead QT.

@AP:

I had an early town feel on theplague which I let cloud my judgement. I think it was also pretty bad with that thing that I kept insisting was a reaction test since he didn't initially call it one and then started claiming that it was after I suggested that it might be. :/

I also wanted uctriton lynched, and I had you pegged as his scumbuddy after you waffled back and forth between which of us was scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP: I had an early town feel on theplague which I let cloud my judgement. I think it was also pretty bad with that thing that I kept insisting was a reaction test since he didn't initially call it one and then started claiming that it was after I suggested that it might be. :/

I also wanted uctriton lynched, and I had you pegged as his scumbuddy after you waffled back and forth between which of us was scum.

Aw, I had a town read on TP42 pretty early on as well. Honestly, his posts just sounded to derp-town to be scum to me. I was having a hard time believing that a scum player would vote an inactive slot for "pressure" then blatantly appease his accuser.

[AngryPidgeon]

Image, you linked me the Mafia QT not the dead one : P

[snifit]

Yay.

Chaos, you played a good game. If you had been more active I might have considered voting someone other than you this last day.
theplague was really obviously scum to me and it was physically painful to watch him slip out of two lynches in a row. Looking back, CooLDoG was the one to unvote him both times. I can understand a cop being hesitant to lynch a claimed cop, but aaarrrrgh!
Shamrock wasn't on my radar going in to D2, but like we talked about, it was overwhelmingly likely that he was scum based on the lynch wagon PoE.

Scum really needed to shoot the cop on N2--they might have had a chance without the guilty on Shamrock (though things still would have been pretty grim for them). Were you afraid that Techno had more than his claimed 2 shots?

I admit to having a scumread on FLP, but the only thing that made me willing to lynch him over theplague was that I thought AP was the cop since he had hypoclaimed a guilty on him.
AP, I really didn't enjoy playing with you. Please try to avoid joining/replacing in to games that I'm in in the future.

Techno, from what I recall you killed image not because you thought he was scummy but because you thought it would help us analyze the wagons. That was frustrating because image was pretty obvtown to me. I think good vig play is to just shoot the people you think are scummy; shooting for information or giving your shot to the town like you suggested on D2 are pretty scummy. I don't think anything other than your obviously flustered reaction to the D2 flavor could have convinced me you were town. You managed to do what town couldn't and killed theplague though, so yay.

Good PR play from CooLDoG and Hoopla.

uctitron, I'm glad you've learned from this game.

I had a tough time getting engaged in this game after I replaced in, so I apologize for my weak play on D1. I think I got in to the swing of things on D2 though.

Thanks for modding, triangle. It's a good setup. I had fun.

[CooLDoG]

SO with my first cop game ever under my belt I have a few things that I think I did wrong.

One was not defending the miller claim. It wouldn't have given me any town or scum points and it might have kept a known townie (by me) alive longer.
I was also way to hesitant to contribute early game. Sorry for that. I was trying not to draw a night kill too hard. I should remember that I'm CooLDoG and am never nightkilled, ever.

I think my selection of cop targets was spot on. I've been around the block a few times so I know how that is supposed to work...

Any suggestions for my play?

Also, I pretty much knew that if TP was scum HOOP was town. Two scum lies like that is way too risky and uncommon, that is one reason why I would encourage scum to supper fake claim in one game to see what the heck would happen. it would be great to see what the town would make of it after a flip.

[TeChNoWC]

quickly, on phone. @snifit:
I liked playing with AP
I wasnt flustered about the flavour. Couldnt give a shit. Sometimes i play aggro because i need to. In fact, I may have reacted the same way as scum (probs wouldnt have claimed at all though, maybe, and would have tried to go after townies so I wouldnt be NKd).

[uctriton00]

Oh and also,

4 mafia was nothing more than a math error. In my head I went, well newbie games have 2 mafia, this normal game looks like twice as many players, so we should have 4 mafia.

Unfortunately, 9 x 2 = 18, not 13. Is it safe to assume the great majority of Mini Normals have 3 mafias?

[snifit]

Right, generally you have 3 scum if it's a single-faction game. If it's multiball you'll generally see it bumped up to 4 scum (either 2x2 mafia or 3 mafia, 1 SK). I've seen 2 mafia, 1 SK before but I think it's more rare.
Some normals are smaller games, so you might see 2:9 games as well.

[Hoopla]

Aw, I didn't even get to post on the last day.

Hoopla paranoia was a big thing for me this game. I nearly wanted to push a semi-pseudo policy lynch just because I couldn't trust that I could trust her, etc. I'm glad she came down with the Occam's Razor reasoning/post when she did. I even thought she might have been the last scum there.

Don't worry, it's normal!

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, I really didn't enjoy playing with you. Please try to avoid joining/replacing in to games that I'm in in the future.

I'm really sorry about that, I know I went slightly insane this game. I understand why you feel this way. I honestly feel that this is the worst I have been.

[TeChNoWC]

AP, I really didn't enjoy playing with you. Please try to avoid joining/replacing in to games that I'm in in the future.

I'm really sorry about that, I know I went slightly insane this game. I understand why you feel this way. I honestly feel that this is the worst I have been.

Dude I don't get it. I know you were throwing reads around everywhere, but
1. You are refining yourself, eventually you'll work out what are (in your opinion) good scumtells and which aren't, and have more stability in your opinions
2. It made you transparently town, IMO, and you still contributed GOOD opinions even if at times they were all over the place.

Snifit is just jealous he didn't get into the town leader block. I think snifit could have put more effort into this game, personally; yeah yeah I'm not really one for a winge and he didn't do too bad and all that. I just think snifit shouldn't be berating people too much when
a) yeah, he is more experienced than AP and probably could have done a better job and
b) he reckons he had TP/Shamrock pegged (which is reflected in the thread), but he didn't push it considerably, particularly when he settled for the FLP lynch after I had said I was likely going to hammer TP
c) I feel AP put more effort in than snifit, even if snifit could (hypothetically) lawd it over AP as being a better player.

IMO all this is hotheaded crap and both AP and snifit played fairly well. Snifit stop being a spoilt brat and realise everyone will get up your nose once in awhile. Sok to have a rant but kiss and make up now with AP, kk?

[AngryPidgeon]

>.>, I don't want to start a fight here Tech, but I appreciate the support. I know I posted way more than everyone else and was very actively trying to take control of the game and steer it where I wanted it to go. I like to be active, but I got particularly obsessive with this game (I actually got rather worked up when FLP flipped town). I can understand why its frustrating to play with since I was forcing players to interact mostly with me.

[AngryPidgeon]

That being said, I would like to q with you in the future ^^

[snifit]

Huh? I don't think I ranted about AP. I specifically avoided giving him feedback since I know my dislike of him would likely just make it incendiary and useless. (I don't think AP played a poor game, for what it's worth. Often townies are wrong about things; that doesn't make their play poor. You, me, and AP were all wrong about things in turn.)
I don't think I berated anyone. It's not about me feeling superior as a player; it's about me having fun playing mafia. As an illustration, I don't particularly enjoy playing with Fate but I know he's quite competent. I don't know how many games you've played, Techno, but surely there's a player that might make you think twice if you were considering signing up for or replacing in to a game and say their name? Perhaps not. That would make you a more agreeable person than me. Such is life.

That said, AP's response was gracious. Perhaps he just rubbed me the wrong way this game.

[TeChNoWC]

eh, ok. I hate playing with MoS (he seems like a little nerd-child that sits at his computer trying to feel all superior because in real life he can't get the ladies), and kcdaspot has some kind of aversion to me.

I could be completely wrong about MoS and I've only played one game with him. That whole community of players seems at odds with my play anyway (the old gen; fate, MoS, reck, all those guys).

But no one I would never play with. Yeah, I am probably too agreeable. I even enjoyed playing with Kassadin, and that's saying something. Pmyst is a tricky one; I like him, but I fucking hate the idea of having him around endgame. He's too hard to read.

[AngryPidgeon]

Pmyst is a tricky one; I like him, but I fucking hate the idea of having him around endgame.

Hahahahahaahaha. I know him from offsite. I modded his first game ever and he rolled a GF with more powers on top of that. It was SO funny watching him in that game. He pulled off the VI card until D3 and then tanked super hard.

I somehow havent played with him on MS yet. I love stalking his games though.

[TeChNoWC]

oh and by the by, I don't 100% agree with your Image-kill critique, but I see where you are coming from.

1. Image could give us wagon analysis. Split the wagons. Definitely not a great reason to kill him, but eh.
2. He claimed. Albeit, he claimed because I asked him to, but at the time I was having second thoughts about my null read on him and thought he MIGHT have been scum and gutter was his counterwagon. At worst, I was killing a VT
3. Gutter flipping town made me feel more of that feeling
4. I didn't get the obvi town vibe you did; and even STILL
5. He could have been a wasted lynch the next day. Townies who are being pummelled into the ground become baggage unless they manage to 180 and revolutionise the game by miraculously finding all the scum and taking control.
6. We won. Maybe it had nothing to do with that; it was the gutter wagon that had the analysis that contributed to shammy-death. But at least it showed distance between sham and CO/TP, for future play. Oh and
7. The only other two people I could have killed was triton or TP. I will NEVER risk killing an unclaimed PR, unless in some real desperate scenario. I was feeling triton town much more than Image. TP, I was feeling town by the claim and I wanted to give him more time (in hindsight, yes, this was the best kill, but don't you love hindsight! Also, Hoopla's claim might not have been heavily believed if we killed TP before she had a chance to CC, but obviously this didn't factor into my decision, just a sidenote). I could have no killed, but I wanted flips.

Personally I had considered playing vig without killing. I find the idea of night-killing as fairly antitown. It's selfish, one man motivated, and isn't always a role that helps town but can seriously do the opposite. However, I think killing amongst claimed people is an acceptable way to approach the vig role.

IMO, if you ever see me killing an unclaimed; I may just be an SK who doesn't give a fuck.

pedit: He ALWAYS seems to pull PRs. I've heard a lot of stories, lol

[CooLDoG]

AP is becoming one of the few people that I like playing with. Most people I don't care if I'm playing with them. And some refuse to play with me (you will make people angry at some point. Like I did). AP did a good job in this game.

Tech also did a good job, however at times he seemed a little bit wishy washy. AP did this too at times. This probably just comes with a lack of experience but I'm not much a fan of going back and forth on game play tactics/strategies. Think it over once and stick to it. If someone has a better Idea then switch to it. Don't waffle with yourself, it makes it harder for people who aren't sold on your towniness to vote with you. My 5 cents.

[TeChNoWC]

Tech also did a good job, however at times he seemed a little bit wishy washy.

I'll never change this when I'm near conf or conf. It wins me games, so I'll keep at it.

Plus I enjoy setup spec. I don't know why people get so anal about it. Maybe because some people suck at it.

[CooLDoG]

Well it leads to a lot of wifom and talk that doesn't really help finding scum. In this game we did have to speculate a bit about the setup because it had a lot of power in it. Generally though set-up speculation doesn't do very much for the town.

[TeChNoWC]

Well it leads to a lot of wifom and talk that doesn't really help finding scum. In this game we did have to speculate a bit about the setup because it had a lot of power in it. Generally though set-up speculation doesn't do very much for the town.

Totally disagree. Like, stronger than a motherfucker disagree.

You just need the right people doing the setup spec; thus, I hope to get better and better at it.

[TeChNoWC]

Well it leads to a lot of wifom and talk that doesn't really help finding scum. In this game we did have to speculate a bit about the setup because it had a lot of power in it. Generally though set-up speculation doesn't do very much for the town.

Totally disagree. Like, stronger than a motherfucker disagree.

You just need the right people doing the setup spec; thus, I hope to get better and better at it.

[Shamrock]

The image kill was really smart IMO, it put me in a really tough spot by making bandwagon analysis really easy, I doubt we would have killed Masnev if we knew image was dying that night too.