Mini 1715 - Z - Game over!

[Thor665]

I might argue that the game is a touch town sided, but I'm not sure I'm married to that idea, the scum roles were strong too - they just caught some bad breaks and town had some good play to exacerbate the potential town sidedness. The roleblock going first was huge, natch.

[SilverWolf]

This game was townsided. zakk even admitted it wasn't balanced. It was reviewed for normalcy only.

Town played very, very well and scum caught no breaks whatsoever but there's no way this wasn't town sided, even with the PR's that scum had.

You have a full doc, a full jk that the rolecop and cop can check who is jailed, a full cop, a full rolecop. No matter what PR's scum had, if anyone says that isn't townsided, they are fooling themselves.

And I would think this if I was town as well here.

[Garmr]

Yeeessss thor I was right about there being a god father. (irst one to bring that up) and about karmic being scum ohhhhh yeh. Still a no lynch was best.

My recollection is Nacho for the GF talk, but I wouldn't swear to that.
You were assuredly right about Karmic, which is awesome, i was more null on him that day myself - you just shouldn't have been vowing self-lynch in defense of one of the other scum at the same time

This is, I think, my first non-newbie perfect town.
Feels really nice.

I mentioned it in post 561 and nacho mentioned it in this game in 565. But nacho mentioned god father earlier for another game with a roleblocker which made me think there may be one in this game so i guess in a way you could say he did.


Yeh I tend to get really passionate when I feel one of my scum reads is right I tend to discard the counter wagons as town so I probably won't do that in the future.

But your right this was a perfect game hell yeh.

Must give props to pista through with the role cop on silver wolf.

[Thor665]

@Silver - You had a blocker, a rolecop of your own, and the spoiler role that shouldn't even exist, the GF.
I am not saying the game is not townsided - but it is not 'oh dear gawd' town sided by any stretch of the imagination.
I think you just didn't end up with the right players in the slots.

@Garmr - agreed, would have totally mauled him without that.

[SilverWolf]

It's still townsided Thor and like I said I would of felt that way if I was town in this game as well.

Yes, town played fantastically well and scum caught exactly zero breaks, but it is what it is.

However, Congrats Town on the win!!

[Garmr]

It's still townsided Thor and like I said I would of felt that way if I was town in this game as well.

Yes, town played fantastically well and scum caught exactly zero breaks, but it is what it is.

However, Congrats Town on the win!!

It isn't impossible to win through if town are screw ups. I won as scum with 6 confirmed town near the end of the game in "You could be Anyone Mafia III"


But if town with a town sided set up like this I would say your chances are very little .

[SilverWolf]

It's still townsided Thor and like I said I would of felt that way if I was town in this game as well.

Yes, town played fantastically well and scum caught exactly zero breaks, but it is what it is.

However, Congrats Town on the win!!

It isn't impossible to win through if town are screw ups. I won as scum with 6 confirmed town near the end of the game in "You could be Anyone Mafia III"


But if town with a town sided set up like this I would say your chances are very little .

Well, I whined and cried about it in the dead PT so enjoy that read.

[Thor665]

It's still townsided Thor

Agreed, I called it that myself.
But give me and another solid mafia player scum roles in this setup and I'd feel perfectly comfortable with our chances of steamrolling - it's not overtly town sided.

[Garmr]

Tbh town did a good job as looking town the only exception would be eventi. Nacho had some role speculation that might make him seem scummy and the fact he guessed who Dave jailed with accuracy (I thought he may of been a watcher or something)

[Garmr]

I'm surprised through that people thought karmic was town all my points on karmic were valid. I also feel like I shouldn't of dropped my scum read on woody but other players managed to convince me he was town so that teaches me to trust my gut more often.

I mean he was accusing people of lurking after one day people. It looks like a bad way to bus in hindsight.

When he accused me of role hunting by warping what I said.

when he was buddying eventi and eventi feel for it hook line and sinker. Got to say that was pretty funny in hindsight.

Saying that I didn't provide reasoning for my cases when I did and trying to use character assassination as a reason to discredit my stuff The list goes on.

[SilverWolf]

I didn't even read WW when I agree'd to replace in or anything else in the game. I just said yes, when zakk asked. Then I saw both by buddies being wagoned, Ciara was basically not playing, then get RC'd, then Karmic gets jailed. I really wasn't even sure I wanted to shoot Thor N1 because I thought he'd be protected. I preferred Nacho but Karmic wanted Thor. I figured out Dave was a PR by something he said in the thread which is why I checked him. And me outing him was simply because I knew what he was and Karmic didn't and I didn't think I'd make it to N2. N2, I was surprised that Karmic went for Thor again-Nacho probably would of been a better shot. Not that it mattered really since dave figured him out.

Also, IMO, once the game can be broken by PR's then it's just setup cracking and that's really no fun to be on the other side of. Like, at all.

[eventi]

Yore still mad I called you a joke, Gamer? What are you 12?

[Garmr]

Yore still mad I called you a joke, Gamer? What are you 12?

Not mad just thought it was funny what is wrong with you?

[KarmicGuide]

@Silver - You had a blocker, a rolecop of your own, and the spoiler role that shouldn't even exist, the GF.
I am not saying the game is not townsided - but it is not 'oh dear gawd' town sided by any stretch of the imagination.
I think you just didn't end up with the right players in the slots.

@Garmr - agreed, would have totally mauled him without that.

Right, but to Silver's point... there are only three of us, and your PRs make you hard to kill. You guys lose one PR, it's not the end of the world, but once we lost even one scum, it really seemed like there was no coming back.

I had fun, and I'm not adverse to playing in a townsided game as scum. Someone has to be the guinea pig, after all. You guys played very well, I absolutely won't deny that.

[SilverWolf]

I'm not adverse to playing in a townsided game as scum.

I am.

[KarmicGuide]

Fair enough, Silver! And yeah, maybe I should've shot Nacho. I felt like I could maybe pass as town to Nacho for longer than Thor, but it was a real toss-up.

Can I get some other opinions on what Garmr is saying? Like... good job on your read I guess, but I kind of feel like you were right about me for the wrong reasons. I put a little pressure on you, but nothing like the pressure I put on Ciara or WW. I don't recall trying to twist any words of yours.

I'm interested to know what others think - how dangerous is it to try and make someone sweat over their choice of words a little? Isn't that a big part of mafia, as scum or town?

I'd be especially greatful if any of the more seasoned folk want to weigh in on how I could improve my play.

[KarmicGuide]

Also, was I buddying Eventi? I like Eventi. Eventi appears to be a Devo fan, and Devo rocks.

[KarmicGuide]

It's astonishing how little of this game I remember, after just a few days.

[Garmr]

Also, was I buddying Eventi? I like Eventi. Eventi appears to be a Devo fan, and Devo rocks.

Eventi = Not much to go on, kind of seems like unlikely scum... Also feels like a smart player. Could be a great town asset with more contribution. Bad D1 lynch.

This is what I consider buddying a empty post calling him smart and a great assist but with no reasoning why he is. Also considering at that point he didn't post anything of substance. When you got questioned hard for it by multiple people eventi pretty much got in the way of you interrogation which is made this line of reasoning fizzle out because he couldn't think before he posted. So to some extent it worked.

[Thor665]

Also, IMO, once the game can be broken by PR's then it's just setup cracking and that's really no fun to be on the other side of. Like, at all.

I agree - I wish there was more mountainous setups.
Any setup with investigatives and protectives can be "broken".

Right, but to Silver's point... there are only three of us, and your PRs make you hard to kill. You guys lose one PR, it's not the end of the world, but once we lost even one scum, it really seemed like there was no coming back.

That's because the scum you lost was the roleblocker - if you had lost the rolecop; no biggie.
Also, I will agree that scum had no protective roles, but...

Can I get some other opinions on what Garmr is saying? Like... good job on your read I guess, but I kind of feel like you were right about me for the wrong reasons. I put a little pressure on you, but nothing like the pressure I put on Ciara or WW. I don't recall trying to twist any words of yours.

I would say the value of that call is best assessed by looking at the wagon on you. He either was convincing people or he was not.
At the end of the day whether or not it was "true" generally doesn't matter.

[KarmicGuide]

Also, was I buddying Eventi? I like Eventi. Eventi appears to be a Devo fan, and Devo rocks.

Eventi = Not much to go on, kind of seems like unlikely scum... Also feels like a smart player. Could be a great town asset with more contribution. Bad D1 lynch.

This is what I consider buddying a empty post calling him smart and a great assist but with no reasoning why he is. Also considering at that point he didn't post anything of substance. When you got questioned hard for it by multiple people eventi pretty much got in the way of you interrogation which is made this line of reasoning fizzle out because he couldn't think before he posted. So to some extent it worked.

Ah, yeah. Not my intention. I really did think Eventi played well - not a lot of posts, but always to the point.

My mass-read posts always get me in trouble - even as town. I should stop doing them.

[eventi]

I hurt his fellings

[Garmr]

@eventi who's acting like a 12 year old now.

@karmic but the thing was the town didn't see it that way this happens when you are scum you see things a little different. Also you never did give a reason back then.

[Thor665]

My mass-read posts always get me in trouble - even as town. I should stop doing them.

I pretty much never do them, for somewhat similar reasons. Firstly, I think they're vaguely meaningless, secondly, whenever you're town and don't give a hang and have little wishy washy slot that you call as a different value of scum/town because, functionally, you're being forced to give some sort of value call to someone that you otherwise wouldn't even mention all of a sudden people point to your read from 100 posts back that's different and start caterwauling that you're scum.

I don't even know why people like them, honestly.

[KarmicGuide]

My mass-read posts always get me in trouble - even as town. I should stop doing them.

I pretty much never do them, for somewhat similar reasons. Firstly, I think they're vaguely meaningless, secondly,

whenever you're town and don't give a hang and have little wishy washy slot that you call as a different value of scum/town because, functionally, you're being forced to give some sort of value call to someone that you otherwise wouldn't even mention all of a sudden people point to your read from 100 posts back that's different and start caterwauling that you're scum.

I don't even know why people like them, honestly.

Bolded mine. This has happened to me so much.

I'm swearing off mass-reads.