The Hobbit Mafia - GAME OVER

[Tigris]

Yaw: Thanks ^_^. Actually, my point was more along the lines of the Raistlin character mentioned. The idea of a character that can both investigate and kill on the same night would require something to balance it out as it would be an incredibly powerful role. Additionally, it would be putting too much on one person, what if that person was a lurker? The town is weakened considerably. Additionally, if it is a cop/vig that can only target one group and that group happened to be a sk, I would be insanely irritated at end of game if I was that sk, sk is difficult enough without that death sentence.

Further evidence (in my mind) that both the vig/sk (as I think it's 50/50 chance for either) and docs are relatively new is Jeep died. Looking over the player's list, there are 5 people I wouldn't chance trying to kill if I was evil (as it seems reasonable to have threeish docs in a 29 person game), Jeep is on the top of that list.

I see no reason to shift my vote yet. I was looking up info on the Hobbit and there should be two more trolls, so either we have a quite large contigent of orcs/goblins, there is another evil group, or the game is unbalanced ^_^ imo, so I think there is a fourth and that it is likely behind the lightning.

[jediknight]

I also dislike the way he seems to be taking ideas from the air and stating them as near fact.

I haven't thrown anything out as "near fact". I'm throwing out ideas and pretty good ones in my mind. Is it too hard to believe that the Ring would play a part in this somewhere? Bilbo uses the Ring MANY TIMES after receiving it to save the party's skins. My only guilt is being overzealous about the material! I'm a huge LOTR's nut! So let me ask some questions...

We apparently have four killing groups. Let's look at the possibilities for cop/doctor from the story. Balin the dwarf (cop?) ...usually the one that played lookout. Bilbo (doc/cop?) ...saved the dwarves more than once but also had the ring which allowed him to scout around when the dwarves were imprisoned in the dungeon at Mirkwood. Elrond (doc)... elven lore says they have excellent druid like healing skills. Gollum's nature suggests paranoid cop to me... does that make me guilty? And the ring made it possible.

And before you suggest that I am pulling stuff outa the air as fact here's a link that might be useful. http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Rampart ... arhob.html There I've done it...I've outed my source! It wouldn't suprise me if the mod used this in crafting this game! It's got alot of insight. Curses to me for plagerizing!

[Yaw]

Far more likely that our mod used the book itself.

In addition, we already know from the deaths last night that Elrond was a

roleblocker

(I'm assuming people arrived in Rivendell for the night and didn't want to leave) and Nori was a

townie

. At the very least those who are spouting off wild theories about rhyming masons could make them correspond with the few facts we have.

Also, there we have the Gollum thing again. If Gollum is in this game, the mod admittedly could have used him in a number of ways. His nature suggests a serial killer to me -- in "The Hobbit", Gollum ate anything that came down to his lake, and the only thing that saved Bilbo from being eaten right off the bat was the fact that Bilbo was carrying a sword. Gollum didn't have much information about anything until he came out from the mountains, which happened post-Hobbit.

[jediknight]

oops...yeah I totally missed that about Elrond. Forgot he had been gutted. My bad! They say the memory is the first thing to go! LOL

[MMCL]

I decided...

Vote:Jediknight

[jediknight]

Wow...I feel all warm and cuddly...being so wanted!

But there's quite a few people that haven't even graced us with their presence. If I can get targeted for being overzealous and having too many opinions, why don't we take a look at those that are being suspiciously silent with no opinions?

Djjin, The Silent Speaker (appropriate eh?), Ibanez (who like myself was so anxious to get a place in this game and has now gone silent), Gaspode (who said he would post yesterday but didn't ), and dragonmaster (who just plain sounds evil!) Perhaps they were given Bombur who spent the majority of the book unconscious!

[the silent speaker]

Well, I was going to comment on Nori being one of our deaths and not a mason, but Yaw beat me to it. As to the idea that Thorin is a mason because he recruited all the other dwarves, who are you positing that he's a mason with? Or are you suggesting that he's a pro-town recruiter?
Also, the Necromancer was mentioned in passing but never played a role in the story. I really really doubt Sauron is behind Smaug's death.
If we have three trolls (counting the one stinking up the first post) and a lot of goblins, isn't that unbalanced against the trolls anyway, Tigris?
On Gollum: if the neck-snapping was him, then the trolls didn't do anything. If the neck-snapping was trolls' work, which IMO is more likely, then Gollum either didn't do anything or isn't a killer.

vote: Korais666

, because either IS is honest and really thinks Korais is likely scum, probably for being the first person to suggest Gollum's presence as a killer, or else IS is scum, voted Korais to set himself up as innocent, and hastily unvoted when he noticed that his scum buddy might actually get lynched. It depends on what your definition of IS is, but either way Korais is a reasonable shot and certainly no worse than a random vote.
BTW, who is The_Kommandant and why is he listed as a player despite not being findable on the All Posts By feature?

[Narninian]

BTW, who is The_Kommandant and why is he listed as a player despite not being findable on the All Posts By feature?

according to the memberlist

s/he joined in may, but hasnt made any posts since joining... the only way I could think of s/he getting in is through PM.

[Yaw]

Apparently mikehart knows Kommandant personally. Although a mod prod might be in order...

[Tigris]

Quite true about it being unbalanced should there be three trolls and a fistful of goblins. Hence why I think there is a fourth evil.
1 evil=sk the dragon
3 evil=trolls Will, Bert, and Tom
(?) gobbies-Great goblin, Bolg, and miscellaneous
Which if we ony go by named evil, 6 out of 29, hardly a game that is balanced imo. Macros' had somwhere around 10-11 evil in 22 and Leo barely won that one (granted evil was killing evil with a fair amount of accuracy, but that's to be expected). I would expect wargs to be another evil group and possibly another sk.

possible others (perhaps blocked yesterday)
wargs-they were the allies of the goblins after all, (battle of Five armies Goblins and Wargs against elves, dwarves, and men (and eagles))
The Necromancer (i.e. Sauron)
gollum
perhaps the spiders as well, but they are fairly minor (as is the necromancer and gollum imo in this book)

[Flying Dutchman]

Usually 1/3rd is evil, depending on the amount of evil parties and powerful pro-town roles it can be more or less.

[Yaw]

Actually, TSS, I suggested Gollum as a neck-snapper before Korais did. Also, Korais has only had one post since the game started, and that was random voting. There certainly isn't even close to enough there to state unequivocably (as IS did) that Korais is scum.

Now Korais may very well be scum. But either way IS is full of crap.

[Gaspode]

Vote: IS

. Teehee.







Just kidding.

Unvote: IS

Anyway, it's quite obvious that no one here has played a game with IS before, and very few have read any of his games. This game has been pretty mild, as far as IS goes. A quick explanation of IS' style is that he always acts scummy, innocent or not (this strategy actually makes some sense, if you think about it). *awaits attack from IS* By the way, IS is the "Paragon of Mafia Hunters", so he has a habit of making unequivocable statements concerning people's scumminess.

vote: Jedi Knight

. I was suspicious of him before I even read Corsato's and Yaw's posts, partially because of the Gollum claim setups and partially because his posts in general look like those of a nervous newbie playing scum.

General thoughts on possible roles: Gandalf being an SK is possible (maybe the mod is messing with us), but not likely. I would guess that Gollum is either evil or an ambiguous character, and Beorn is probably a dangerous pro-town role. Rhyming dwarf masons are highly unlikely IMO, as that would make four or five pairs/sets of three. That's way too many to be balanced. Plus, Nori was a townie.

[Yaw]

Oh, I agree completely about IS's playing style. That's why I'm not voting for him at the moment -- what's scummy for every other person in the world is normal for IS. But that doesn't preclude him from being full of crap, and I have no problems with pointing that out when he is.

[Corsato]

But either way IS is full of crap.

No more then usually I guess.

Jediknight, I've read your explanation for your behaviour, but I still see it differently. Your vote for Argoti was not random but based on his assumption that "Gollum didn't do much. That's not picking a number between 1 and 29 and voting accordingly. It's a reason, and thus not a random vote.

Seven posts later you decide to vote for Lord Gurgi, because hisr post "doesn't make sense to you". Usually when I do not understand a post or if it simply doesn't make sense to me, I ask for an explanation.

Keeping my vote, as I believe you are the best we've got (so far).

[korais666]

Yeah, but even if it's not IS, you have to figure that when ANYONE says somebody is "evil" day 1, they usually mean "evilmaybenotreallysurejustguessing"

[Argoti]

I have to agree on the Jedi bandwagon, so

Vote: JediKnight

.

I've seen/experienced the work of a Mafia Hunter before, but Jedi stands out in my mind.

[mikehart]

Vote Count

jediknight

(7) -

Yaw, Corsato, coolbot, Jaylen, MMCL, Gaspode, Argoti

Flying Dutchman

(2) -

Lord Gurgi, Murk

Lord Gurgi

(2) -

Flying Dutchman, jediknight

Yaw

(1) -

korais666

korais666

(3) -

Tigris, Mr. Flay, thesilentspeaker

Argoti

(1) -

drummer97531

Internet Stranger

(1) -

Rick

[jediknight]

Well all this cause of my comments about Gollum...yowza!! We got a bunch of gollum haters out there! I am fairly new to this game online (yep call me a newbie!) and am not totally comfortable with knowing when/if to roleclaim. But I am comfortable with one role claim:

I am NOT gollum!!!

Although I am starting to get the feeling that Argoti, Corsato or Yaw might be... They are way to set on downplaying gollum's role in things and painting me evil. And it's working it appears! Gollum could be trying to find Bilbo to get his ring back ie. gaining a night choice of cop or self protection?

I think my problem is that I am over-stimulated by the material. I keep throwing out all these ideas, making myself look suspicious because I am overzealous about the topic. While I think it would cloud the real issue at hand I will roleclaim if discussion suggests that it is necessary. Let me just end by saying that I am pro-town by accident... Confusing yes, but true.

[Internet Stranger]

I can never win. Yaw scolds me for wanting to lynch anyone, no matter what, on day 1, so I try to do the noble thing and give a choice of two people. I also am even more noble and change my vote to the person with less votes to give them a chance.

But apparently thats not good enough for Yaw. At least he didnt vote me.

I still proclaim that Korais or Coolbot are evil. But thats a juicy bandwagon thats begging for a vote. And for the sake of ending Day 1's and making Yaw happy...

Unvote:Coolbot
Vote: Jediknight

Sorry buddy. Hopefully this will be a learning experience.

[Yaw]

This is becoming quite ridiculous. The way these large games get started is to find some half-baked excuse, and bandwagon. Most of the time, it's a bandwagon to a claim. That's the way this works. Then we can sit back and analyze who bandwagoned, who didn't, how the bandwagon's target reacted, and why. All of that is relevant information that can catch us scum. What we have now is a conversation starter, it is not necessarily a lynch-wagon.

Jediknight, could you give us some explanation for the "pro-town by accident" comment? If you can do it without claiming, that would be better.

IS's definition of nobility comes from the same source as Mao Tse-Tung's definition of freedom.

I'm willing to listen to anyone who claims to have found scum, but they have to at least give some reasoning for it. You got any to back up your claims on Korais and Coolbot, IS?

[Lord Gurgi]

You might want to claim because claiming

I am NOT gollum!!!

Isn't enough, so much about gollum and mainly about how he is good not evil!

[Tigris]

Hey I resemble that remark Gaspode! ^_~, true I've never played with IS; however, I tend to browse the archives with semi-regularity, I don't know why they just enthrall me *purrs*. More amusing I guess.

Anyhows, claiming would likely be advised, of course I also tell people that they can stick forks into electrical outlets (with a demonstration), so my advice might not be the best in the world (please do not stick a fork into an electrical outlet without properly testing it first, k, I don't need lawsuits ^_^)

[jediknight]

Okay... starting Thursday I am going to be absent for a week. I do a teen leadership camp every summer...picture me with 375 teenagers YIKES!!!

Since a good portion of the group seems to be hiding...and Yaw seems to be backpedaling saying this isn't a bandwagon... it's a "conversation starter"...like h-e double hockey sticks (LL for the undeducated!) That makes you more scummy to me. And Yaw also seems to be the one that has the most issues with my continued discussion of Gollum.


I never said Gollum was good...I suggested that he might be a paranoid cop...we got alot of powerful scum roles (scimitars, neck wringing, lightning? ) And limited possibilities for pro-town roles... (IE. who's the cops and docs for one) But everyone is basing their votes on my gollum considerations apparently! It was only a suggestion!!! We didn't bandwagon our absent players. We don't even seem concerned that they are absent all that much.
Ok... explanation of pro-town by accident without roleclaiming... This is hard! If I target a certain character in the night I protect him. I can only do it once and the method fits the story but I'm not really considered (by story accounts) one of the good guys. I really don't want to say more than that.

[mikehart]

Vote Count

jediknight

( 8 ) -

Yaw, Corsato, coolbot, Jaylen, MMCL, Gaspode, Argoti, Internet Stranger

Flying Dutchman

( 2 ) -

Lord Gurgi, Murk

Lord Gurgi

( 2 ) -

Flying Dutchman, jediknight

Yaw

( 1 ) -

korais666

korais666

( 3 ) -

Tigris, Mr. Flay, thesilentspeaker

Argoti

( 1 ) -

drummer97531

Internet Stranger

( 1 ) -

Rick