Mini 738: The Town of Merrin - Game Over

mykonian · Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:41 am

GIEFF wrote:
mykonian wrote:At least this is better then a Panzer lynch.
Why is that?

because he isn't the cop

Yes, lets lynch him. No lynch cannot be accepted, it would give us nothing.

mykonian · Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:01 pm

Goatrevolt wrote:I'm fine with carrying through on Qwints. I'm a little disturbed by those who would give Panzer a free pass merely for claiming cop. That can be discussed again tomorrow, though.

Day one is just not the time. We don't know as much as we will day 2. It is just not a good call to make now, and I don't understand why you keep asking for a panzer-lynch.

mykonian · Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:20 pm

Priorities...

Now we are going to lynch qwints, and we finally agree. Tomorrow we are going to question panzers claim. There is no need to talk about it now, is there?

mykonian · Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:23 pm

GIEFF wrote:mykonian is scum.

OK, I should stop posting late night, but what did I do wrong now? Has it something to do with the fact that I don't want to lynch Panzer today, and that I won't put any energy in it till day 2?

mykonian · Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:07 pm

mykonian wrote:Tomorrow we are going to question panzers claim. There is no need to talk about it now, is there?

I think that is not exactly what I said. I said it was wasted energy to do it

now

, and I was pretty clear that I wanted more information before I'm going to dare to lynch an un-cc'ed cop. Now stop trying to find slips where they don't exist.

mykonian · Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:31 pm

GIEFF, I'm a bit sick of all the "slips" you have found. Now you have a new one. Now I suddenly know panzer is a cop. Just because I don't want to lynch an un-cc cop now.

congratulations.

You simply try to find something scummy in my way of posting, and put it all together to make a case, none of these points above is actually a major, or even certain scummy thing. It is just a load of debatable weak scumtells. I don't know why you are so happy with it, but again and again your cases look like this, and always you have caught "scum".

mykonian · Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:44 pm

ok, maybe I'm going to try to say something less aggressive, and more constructive on that tomorrow. Because I have the feeling that people are not going to check if those slips actually make sense, and while the "towny" slip was already found doubtful, GIEFF brings it as evidence again. It is even one of his more important sentences, a sort of conclusion.

mykonian · Fri Mar 13, 2009 11:52 am

ok, I had a busy day, so the great defense won't come here. I'm going to try though. Bolded is mine.

GIEFF wrote:You DID assume he was cop. You referred to him as a PR, and immediately started looking for the next lynch-target.
I don't even want to try to lynch a un-cc'ed cop day one. We got little information (day ones are not known for their scumlynches), and it is hard to think of a stronger Pr then the cop. It is just not done: It is bad play, and I think I explained in multiple posts, why I didn't want this: now you picked something out of it, and call it a slip, while I think everyone here got what I was trying to say

------

More stuff before twilight hits to refer back to in case I get whacked:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 29#1529029

mykonian says BB is scum for focusing on me, even though Panzer made it clear I didn't lie. Yet mykonian has done the exact same thing.
And I'm scummy for it, it was no correct play. See next point

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 83#1514183
Me countering the case that mykonian finally made after I repeatedly demanded he make one if he was going to continue attacking me. He soon after decided I wasn't really all that scummy, but said it was only because Panzer showed my case to be more valid than he thought. Even though Panzer had already done this. And even though that shouldn't be enough to go from attacking someone for 30 pages to assuming they must be done.
In my defense, Sensfans recent post about this, came with exactly the same explanation as I did, and said it was obvious. I thought you were twisting his words. I found it very hard to understand that Panzer actually meant it that way.

mykonian kept pushing for Zilla to claim, even when she was down to L-4, and even though he later claimed he didn't want to lynch her.
this has been talked over, again and again. Dourgrim posted then there were enough people for a Zilla lynch, and I reacted on that by asking for a claim, it was the logical play. I do agree that I should look better at the votecounts, and I should check dourgrims posts better.

mykonian called Zilla a townie on three separate occasions.

not again. The first time it could be a slip, but then I said it, based on the assumption that someone else was scum (who I was accusing). After that, the same reasoning counts mostly in my defence, and your slip theory doesn't work anymore. Like I would "slip" after you called me two times on it... It makes no sense GIEFF. I could just as easily say that as scum could do it.

I hope this is clear enough. I didn't include two links, as I can't click them when I was typing, and I didn't know what it was about. I think the only thing you have against me is that I tunneled on you, and I'm sorry for that.

mykonian · Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:23 pm

GIEFF wrote:It was never about you wanting to lynch an un-cc'd cop. It was about you assuming immediately he was the legitimate cop, and trying to cut off any discussion about the potential for him to be scum. Nobody is arguing we lynch Panzer today.
No, you are, and I want to cut it off, as it is wasted energy. I've seen several posts from you and Goat, that were about how scummy Panzer was: would you please look at the people that are lynchable?

The abrupt halt to the tunneling is a lot scummier than the tunneling itself was.
Be happy it stopped. I think I needed something as direct as that post from Panzer.

Your "too scummy" defense doesn't work. You called Zilla a townie three times. Even if you were town, you would stop doing it after I called you on it, for the exact same reasons you would stop doing it as scum, i.e. it looks scummy.
since when is, while you are assuming someone is scum, calling someone else a towny a scum thing to do? It is simply what logically follows from your assumption. It is a way of speaking, and it is not scummy. You just want to see something scummy in it. Maybe it helps if you look at it and ask yourself if town could say it. You are now only trying to find me as scum.

------------------

The fact that qwints doesn't want to say anything to help us out makes me more confident he is scum.

mykonian · Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:24 pm

GIEFF wrote:Haha, the mod is mocking us in the thread title. Poor kloud.

"Day one starts", while on page 50, was also not such a strong title

mykonian · Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:26 pm

you were for quite some time...

mykonian · Sat Mar 14, 2009 8:23 am

qwints wrote:Since deadline is approaching and BB is more likely to be scum than I am:

vote: BB[/unvote]

why is that? and is it such a bad plan to lynch you? You are not that protown either, you basically do nothing.

mykonian · Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:43 am

I agree:

unvote vote Qwints

mykonian · Sat Mar 14, 2009 10:28 am

GIEFF wrote:That's a hammer, I think.

I believe that too.

*grabs his umbrella, and waits for the buckets of ketchup Kloud will bring.

mykonian · Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:41 am

guess this is one of GIEFF's gambits. Let's see what happens.

and lynching the framer is good! Now we can be sure that Panzer is the cop (who would put a framer in a copless game?)

mykonian · Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:27 am

so, basically, you are voting spring for lurking and not reading the thread properly?

mykonian · Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:08 pm

GIEFF wrote:
Zilla wrote:I agree with this, that people like to mention their own roles. I would not lynch mykonian because of this, but I think this is one more minor thing to add to mykonian's list of scumminess.

I'm insulted. Really, it would have been an obvious breadcrumb: if I wanted you to know, something that I don't want as SK. Thats why it is unlikely that I'm the SK. Although you might need to know me better before you believe that.

mykonian · Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:52 pm

yes, you should hear from me, but on the moment I'm not too motivated, and I need to be. I should give this a game a reread, while thinking about the deaths, but as I hope you all can understand, that would not be an easy thing to do. I tried yesterday, made it to page 10, when I gave up, and still had nothing really solid. I don't know why, but it can't be that there is nothing to find, so I'll have to do it again.

mykonian · Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:53 pm

vote zilla

played a very aggressive antitown game.

mykonian · Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:57 pm

hey, the fact that you already know who scum is, doesn't make that anyone knows.

btw. Well done: not being on the wagon, while attacking zilla. IGMEOY.

mykonian · Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:11 pm

I think I have been defending zilla too long with the too scummy fallacy. I bet I talked about that with goat yesterday. Some people here look so precisely at every post, that if someone is scum in their minds, they will find contradictions, slips etc.. But you can make such cases just as easily on town as on scum.

mykonian · Sun Mar 22, 2009 8:51 pm

not. I have 50+ pages of general opinion back, and the way qwints played, and this related to an ongoing game, pushed me over.

mykonian · Sun Mar 22, 2009 10:06 pm

Zilla wrote:Technically, Mykonian didn't include a colon in his vote, so it's possibly not an official vote...

keep hoping. I don't think I ever do that...

and this kind of makes up for our way too long day 1.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:31 am

and that is scum number two. The "O sorry, did I hammer?". No reasons, only getting further in the game. We will never know why you did it...

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:28 am

GIEFF wrote:I wonder what kloud's mod-kill flavor would look like?

but on the other hand (

), I don't want to know. GIEFF is one of the people that is at least involved in this game. I think it would leave the game to random voting in stead of mafia if this happens. Practically no-one is really into the game. That has probably a lot to do with the long day one.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:35 am

Do you want to bet? I say it will go inactive. Too many people rereading. (sens, xtoxm, spring) and people not that interested (panzer) and people that don't have enough time (dourgrim, BB).

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:40 am

it is not an opinion, it is an observation. I didn't put you in the "not interested people", I don't understand Panzers attitude. All the other are at least trying, and the fact that they are not the most active comes from things that are not in their power. When you asked to be replaced, you were better then the obvious lurkers, and you already could tell you were trying to keep up, and I think that counts for something. So in stead of asking for a replacement that would have to work through this mess, we have a player that is most times with us, and that wants to play. I don't think the choice is hard to make.

But what I fear is, is that this horrible day 1 will make this game hard for people to get in, and when the towny that constantly pushed us into being active disappears, I don't know what is going to happen. Again, this is nothing against the players, it is the game.

So please don't be offended. I didn't accuse you of anything, I was (and still am) happy that you didn't lurk when you didn't have the time for this game, so please don't understand me wrong.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:49 am

And mykonian just called ME a townie.

and I've been your biggest fan from the end of day 1.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:05 am

GIEFF wrote:
Xtoxm wrote:You think those are poor assumptions, Gieff?
mykonian referred to Zilla as a "townie" three times yesterday. He referred to goat as a "townie" once (and goat has since been revealed to be pro-town). I don't think these are assumptions, I think they are slips made by scum-mykonian, revealing he knows more about alignments than he should.

If Zilla flips scum, this is mostly moot.

Really, power of the subconcious and such: if we believed you, my subconcious is the only thing that posts! GIEFF, for something to be a slip, I shouldn't notice that I make it, and seriously, after so many times you said it, do you really think you can call it a slip?

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:24 am

GIEFF wrote:
mykonian wrote:and about the picking on townies: that could be a scumslip. I would like to hear Panzers explanation of that (although I can imagine what his answer is going to be).
This quote was about Panzer's "townie" slip where he called dejkha/Zilla a townie, and shows that mykonian does think calling someone a townie could be a scumslip.

and it already shows I knew the protown answer too. I just wanted to ask the question anyway.

and now you are going to use that against me, just because you think it unlikely I'm right when I call someone town. Really, was it that hard with Goat? I've been clear in that. Like I'm clear in the fact that I think you protown. And most of the "slips" are ways of speach, like I have called people scum too, when I assumed that in a certain reasoning. If zilla flips town, is the sentence: "I know I can't argue with this, but I have seen this too often: two townies that go after each other, pointing out that the other doesn't understand them the right way." so damning? On that moment, I react on the fact that two people discuss small tells way too far, thereby getting nothing further, only getting themselves and their "opponent" to think the other is scum. Personally, I don't like those situations, they are not productive, but I don't know what you think about it...

GIEFF, this argument doesn't work. Really, you are obsessed with a way of scumhunting that will find a lot of people, but not necesarilly scum.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:58 am

now GIEFF, you've heard the same thing from three people, and this has carried waaayyyy to long, so can we please stop now with these "slips"?

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:01 pm

SensFan wrote:mykonian, the VERY NATURE of the game is subconscious. The DEFINITION of a scumtell is a slip. I strongly think you are Scum, especially after this ridiculous defense of yours, and trying to downplay my contributions, when they FAR exceed your own.

sure. I know you think you are great.

that doesn't make the fact true that those "slips" were not part of what I was saying. Nothing subconcious about it. CAPS won't change it.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:02 pm

GIEFF, the three people you name haven't posted a lot, could be part of it. Maybe concentration tells you more. (votes/posts)

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:07 pm

GIEFF wrote:Can you stop making them?

Even without the slips, you have done plenty of other scummy things, as I've summarized in the twilights of both Day 1 and Day 2.

ok, I will try to write my conclusions based on assumptions not as the truth, that should help.

That plenty of scummy things is mostly indecisiveness. Ok, that could be a scumtell. But I don't think it makes a great case.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:14 pm

lol, feels the wrong way around

thank you for doing that, but I think you can see too that we can use your low-votes theory here. The three that have the highest (and scummiest following that theory) are most likely town (is this better?).

and it is not good that half of the game made less then 70 posts. Scum can just sit back.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 pm

SensFan wrote:Pages 11-15

Goat
*257 is very good
*285 is great
*290 is brilliant
*303 is gold, something more people need to realize
*345 is great

Zilla
*259 is absolute shit, you should read the thread before people tell you who you should see as scummy
*261 is trying to justify the shit logic
*273 is the worst yet from her
*288 is even worse. Seriously, you can't justify the fact that you are either lazy or Scum.
*289 calls everyone scummy for not bowing down to her command, terrible
*292 is complete fluff. Have you even read the fucking thread yet?
*297 is even worse. She finally starts playing...and contradicts everything she's said so far.
*324 goes back to saying evewryone should have bowed down to her
*331 is fairly useless, but at least its not bad
*339, I swear if you so much as mention the fact you expect to not read games you replace into ONE MORE TIME...
*344...Just...
*353 is actually not bad. I disagree completely, but it actually looks like it might be legit
*357 is openly going out of her way to make a case on everyone...really?...Need I say more?

Mykonian
*262 shows he isn't as bad at game theory as it appeared
*352 is really good, surprisingly
*355 is also good

Panzer
*265 is really good
*296 is good, though I disagree with the Unvoting of Zilla
*298 is great, back on track
*347 sums up my thoughts

Subgenius
*268 is repetitive, though good
*269 is good
*342 is perfect, and right on track
*374 is the best post I've seen in a long time

Militant
*281 is nice
*308 is good

Birthday
*282 is rather nice, though by then I'm sure BirthdayScum would have known to jump on Zilla so *shrug*
*287 is a bunch of bullshit, with some ribbons to make it look pretty
*340 is more words that mean nothing. And if someone is attacking you with weak logic, you SHOULD tear it to bits

Dourgrim
*286 is rather bad, why bother posting that you like your vote if you admit to only skimming?

GIEFF
*305 is complete garbage. Get over yourself, get over something that happened in the random stage.
*319 is more of the same shit
*327 is...surprise!...more of the same shit. I'm seeing a pattern here...
*330 is...yeah, I think you can figure it out...
*337 is more shit
*343, can you PLEASE take off the 'Panzer is Scum' glasses?
*348 is garbage.
*363 is still posted through the PanzerScum glasses.
*366 gets into dumb theory. If Scum says "I'm voting Y for XXX", he is in fact voting Y for XXX, that's not a fucking lie
*369, get those fucking glasses off. NOW.

your detailed analysis, I guess? What does everybody that reads this know about the persons you read about? That you think some posts good, some posts bad, and most times you don't even tell why.

This was also your last detailed analysis, and after that, you didn't get further then one-liners. So please, Sensfan, stop telling you are great, and show it.

mykonian · Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:27 pm

I don't care about the rest, I don't find the "detailed" part in your posts, as the post above is an example of a series of little telling general opinions about posts, without any reasons why, and after this post, you have posted mainly oneliners, ending with your:

SensFan wrote:Sorry I'm late, guys. Life's been busy.

mykonian is wrong about the slip again, and its odd that Panzer didn't get a result.
Vote: Zilla
, for now. I think this is the third vote.

accidental hammer... Or even a plain bandwagon vote, if it would have been the third (while dour's really was on the previous page).

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:15 pm

GIEFF: Finally!

anyway, this is most certainly a doc save. I can't imagine a second roleblocker-type role in it (to avoid possible problems), and nightkill immune roles are not considered that normal, isn't it? So I guess we got lucky!

I didn't expect Zilla to come up scum, that probably makes sens town. I can't imagine scum that "accidentaly" hammers a mafia powerrole. Seen the power we have seen from the mafia, the town must have its part too, and I don't see how sens-scum could have thought he could win that.

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:40 pm

Do I have to argue with this?

Sens, bring your detailed analysis in, please.

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 12:56 pm

SensFan wrote:
Zilla wrote:From what I've seen of Sens, he has a fetish for quicklynching.
Given the right circumstances, I absolutely think a quicklynch is warranted. This is not one of those circumstances.

since when isn't 75% sure not enough for a quicklynch, when you have probably around 25-33% chance in the start of the game, if you do it random?

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:31 pm

and lying makes you more believable? Sens, what do you want? after a mislynch you will say "O yes, I knew that already, I lied about my vote"... It was the hammer Sens, or if you didn't lie about that part, you thought it was the third vote, L-2. You could have been a little more careful...

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:41 pm

sure sens, you said that. You also said you didn't realize you hammered, and those things are a bit mutually exclusive.

The question remains: why would you lie? I simply can't understand, and while I read the thread, you never told me that.

Seems to me that that could be a nice subject for a "detailed" post.

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:46 pm

ok.

Then the next question: you quicklynched on purpose then, only based on gut, and didn't explain any reasoning. How can I see this as protown? Would we be so idiotic to lynch you if this had failed?

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 1:56 pm

Because I can't understand it. You were taking such risks if this was true. Well, thank you for hammering scum, and I'll let it rest now. But next time, would you please not lie too much? It confuses me.

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:51 pm

springlullaby wrote:You are dumb to vote without explanation.

Anyway, I'm at L-2. If you don't want me to claim, you unvote me.

Is it dumb to vote for someone that admittantly doesn't want to play?

If you admittantly aren't interested enough to hunt scum, doesn't that mean that you don't need to hunt for them?

mykonian · Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:52 pm

springlullaby wrote:Gieff, your case sucks. I could eat holes in it, but I won't because I'm on minimum effort this game. Look elsewhere.

minimal effort means: no reaction on cases on you and barely reading the thread. Then it is impossible to hunt scum.

mykonian · Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:01 pm

since when are you ever justified in not responding, while your reason clearly is that the game is not interesting enough?

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:15 am

GIEFF, would you stop attacking confirmed (ok, ok, almost confirmed) players? As long as we have the idea not to go for a quicklynch, there would never be a problem. We should wait for Panzer, and in that time, he can use his extra information to find scum.

It isn't that hard...

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 6:56 am

this way, even after you think Panz has an inno, you still vote her? Xtoxm, you don't make sense...

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:23 am

Waiting is indeed long. Esspecially because I have the feeling Panzer doesn't check this thread often.

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:13 am

GIEFF wrote:And I agree with Xtoxm that even an innocent-result is not necessarily inno - the probability of an investigation-immune mafia (or sk) is high.

thought it over, and maybe you are right. We got: one mafia blocker, one framer, and one cop. Probably a doctor, because a town blocker is highly unprobable, and a no kill? would be weird.

That leaves us with a cop and a doc in play, something that, while used, is not adviced as it can make the game pretty boring. We should still play the game, something I stopped doing a bit. (sorry

). Follow the cop is probably not that good an idea, maybe some investigation immune person sneaks through.

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:25 am

BB said he agreed with GIEFF's case on you, I only reacted on the statement that "we had to look somewhere else", without defending yourself. And you said again, you lost interest. I can't understand that, if you are town, but this claim makes it likely. You could have said the same thing as scum, and use that as an excuse of lurking.

BTW, are we doing massclaim?

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:26 am

SensFan wrote:Vote on SL stays.

If she;s not lynched today, I want her to shoot herself tonight.

and the added benefit is?

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:26 am

never mind, I should think more before I post.

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:33 am

sure, I'm not going away yet

I'm a deputy

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:51 am

its called bussing.

I believe the doc, as we most likely had a save. I don't know why the claimed vig is not on the list.

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:00 am

sounds like a plan.

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:10 am

GIEFF wrote:Is it possible there is a 2-person scum team, and SL is a serial killer? To test this, I think we should tell SL to no-kill tonight, as sk's usually HAVE to kill each night, right?

we had a kill free night.

and if SL was compulsive (is that correct?) then she could always shoot the person Xtoxm protects.

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:11 am

vote Sens

that is second I believe, so if I go to sleep, you can go on, if you want.

mykonian · Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:17 am

good point. A GF wouldn't do that, he would still want to be investigated. That would make him safe.

mykonian · Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:29 am

why would mafia kill ting? I think this is getting things from flavour that you shouldn't do. Kloud just writes awesome flavour, that is all.

mykonian · Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:16 am

Haven't you read Klouds stories before? It was part of the reason I inned for this game. And no, no matter how gruesome the death is, I don't think he tells us something with it

mykonian · Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:40 am

I know that a vig claim can be highly usefull to a SK.

And the story part: it is not the first time that someone dies gruesomely. It probably has more to do with Klouds style then roles, plus that most mods are busy giving as little information away as possible.

mykonian · Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:58 am

GIEFF wrote:ting was "pumped full of lead," i.e. shot. That matches a vig more than an SK.

I have reasons for suspecting SL as SK, but flavor is not among them.

I would prefer, in order, a mykonian lynch, and then a Dourgrim lynch. How common is a deputy in a mini normal?

No idea, never been one.

Did see a backup blocker in a semi open, but that was all. (C9++)

mykonian · Mon Mar 30, 2009 10:12 am

you have thought me scummy for a long time, GIEFF, everytime for an other reason. I would like to know what the reason is now.

mykonian · Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:26 pm

Panzerjager wrote:BTW, I'm expecting SL to shot herself tonight or we lynch her tomorrow.

Vigging herself makes us win, doesn't it?

mykonian · Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:14 am

SensFan wrote:myko, that's (yet another)
MASSIVE
slip.

You see, Town doesn't win at all if she VIGS herself.

ok. happy now?

still she should kill herself. In that case, one of our biggest liabilities is gone. For the rest we have the power to win practically win with whoever as scum. If I was scum, would I even consider helping the town at the point people confuse themselves (GIEFF), while we have most likely won it already? The only thing we need to do is to find the correct way to end this, and not by hopping from strategy to strategy.

mykonian · Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:44 am

I would like spring to shoot herself. If she is not the SK, we don't have to think about that anymore, we'll have only one scum to take care about after that, and that can hardly be not a win.

If she doesn't kill herself, after we asked it, she is confirmed scum, and after that, same reasoning goes. With the power we have in town, we can hardly lose.

The only thing that could really hurt us, is if scum are going to shoot our precious powerroles, with two shots this night. That would mean we probably can find one, but after that, we can get in several ways a lylo situation, contrary to an auto win situation that appears mostly.

So, we need to be sure we have only one scum to think about before we get there. And because spring is actually our biggest chance at finding scum (the only person that can be SK), and lynches are valuable, because we can talk about it, makes the plan to make Spring kill herself the absolute best.

mykonian · Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:32 am

I think it is. Personally, I think the no kill makes Xtoxm quite believable. It would be anti-scum play, and a huge gambit.

mykonian · Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:40 pm

He has the vig as confirmed, while that is exactly the role that is the hardest to confirm...

This game would be easy without investigation immunity, but SK's usually are, and it doesn't seem that unnatural that godfathers are it too...

mykonian · Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:27 pm

watcher already saw GIEFF, I thought. Plus that I think we should never pin the doc, and the tracker is probably more valuable, in case he is not scum.

mykonian · Thu Apr 02, 2009 3:29 am

Panzer, you should let BB do the tracking of people he hasn't yet tracked, in case of investigation immunity. BB could investigate me, I guess. SL should kill herself, or else she is the SK.

mykonian · Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:08 am

then she would not be playing to win. She can see too that she'll win if she is not the SK, and that we are best of having her confirmed. Don't be so negative.

mykonian · Thu Apr 02, 2009 6:36 am

Xtoxm wrote:I'm not saying it's not the best plan. Tbh I think it's the same either way. But that's not the point. I'm not shooting myself, i'm killing who I think is scum. So same applies to SL.

you are confusing me.

mykonian · Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:17 am

can SL say that herself?

mykonian · Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:52 pm

Panzerjager wrote:k.. SL shoots herself then, let's lynch dour.

ok,

unvote, vote Dourgrim

mykonian · Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:29 pm

ok, this is good. We have no SK, and then we win all the time. Today, I'm afraid, I will be lynched, and tomorrow you can lynch BB. We win tomorrow then.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:36 am

Hey, that was three! I'm dead!

who is dukakis?

anyway, good game by most players. Bad play by mafia

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:09 am

It actually quite funny. You caught me page 1, I was the person that had to bring it up for quite a long time, and you lynch me on page 72

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:50 am

It was awesome. I was quite confident while getting into the game. I had played as scum before, but that start... I really had the feeling: now I'm playing with the big guys...

a shame Panzer couldn't keep up that level of play. You partially forced him out of it, GIEFF. But still, you were probably the best town. Not because you found so many scum (you found a lot, scum or not scum. Intentional or not intentional), but because you noticed a lot, kept the lead in town's hands, forced people to play, and kept pressure on. I would definately enjoy playing with you again.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:36 am

GIEFF wrote:Thanks mykonian, appreciate it. I was getting frustrated at you not understanding me, and wasn't sure whether to chalk it up to the language barrier or you being scum and purposefully trying to make things confusing. Glad to see it was the latter.

It wasn't...

Sens confirmed it later, and seen panzers first posts, I knew, and know still that I am right. Also proven by the fact that panzers statement made sense. I wanted Panzer to get to defend himself against this twisting of words, but he never joined... It was pretty annoying. I wanted to try that out for once, as someone gave me the idea, but I never managed to get town to attack eachother.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:45 am

While you can't imagine the game to go this way beforehand, I think you had too many powerroles Kloud. I guess it was balanced, but it makes a mess of the game quickly and games tend to get ruled by them. And possibly they get more swingy.

Esspecially unfortunate was the investigator-doc couple. Sure, you can't imagine a game to go this way, but it is not ideal.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 9:49 am

you forgot the roleblock night one.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:27 am

GIEFF wrote:Yeah, the cop-doc power is broken completely by a mafia roleblocker, and even more so by the framer. We just happened to lynch those two roles the first 2 days.

framer is not close to being as powerful as the roleblocker. And as soon as the roleblocker is lynched (in this case day 2) the game becomes boring. That's why I heard that it is not that great to put them together in a game. I know Kloud tried to do this, and that's also why I thought very soon that there must be a doctor, but still. It can make the game more determined by powerroles then by play, and I though that was not usual here.

Of course this sounds like loser talk, as I couldn't win because of it. But with both in a game, you always have the chance that it happens.

And with zilla, you were good. With qwints? He should have kept lurking, and not trying to bandwagonvote without reason on the last moment. I bet he couldn't think of a more obvious scumtell. Anybody would have caught him. More bad play from our side, and decent from yours then great town play.

Sure, you have won. But most of you have not won the game for town. Xtoxm was good with the endgame planning, had the best ideas. GIEFF was best player overall, Panzer had the best post in the game. Goat played very well. But I can't say that I was stunned by the great play here. I wasn't good, scum in general was bad, and town was apart from a few players (day 2 only GIEFF...) not that great. Sure, be happy about winning, but I hope you had more energy in other games. I was a bit annoyed about it halfway the game.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:48 am

it doesn't break the possibility of it making the game autowin. Nobody cares about the cop-doc day one, however, after the roleblocker is killed people are going to notice that a claimed cop is not killed. It makes the game boring. Thats why I heard (so you don't think I think of this by myself

) that it is not advised to use them both in a game.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:56 am

I know

Let's say it is a personal preference. (and this is why I said that the framer was a weaker role then the blocker. With only the framer mafia will likely lose too.)

And of course mafia didn't deserve a win here. But the last two days were not mafia anymore, it was waiting for the results. This was because of the amount of powerroles, and the fact that they stayed alive. That would have happened in more then 1% of the cases.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:05 am

I actually made my scummiest post in the game to finally get something back for all the distancing we had done. I voted you, halfway the wagon, almost without reason. GIEFF instantly found it, reacted. But before I could play my suicide game Sens had already hammered

And Zilla, your main problem was that it was way to clear that you were searching for scumtells on people. And those small tells can be found on many people. You didn't make friends that way.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 11:29 am

consistent scummy play is also scummy play

I had the plan to play that way. It is a caricature of my normal play. I overdid it a little, I think. I got too many: "you don't say a thing" accusations. Otherwise, this game was not that exciting, apart from that early post of panzer.

mykonian · Tue Apr 07, 2009 7:15 pm

this is going to hurt my town game...

there sometimes my posts aren't clear too. And I misunderstand other peoples posts...

mykonian · Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:16 am

oh, and GIEFF, you only found 2 slips, I though. Sens found one too. But you made that point hard for yourself by overdoing it. Most of the things you picked out were put there conciously. Most obviously with zilla

mykonian · Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:10 am

SensFan wrote:
mykonian wrote:oh, and GIEFF, you only found 2 slips, I though. Sens found one too. But you made that point hard for yourself by overdoing it. Most of the things you picked out were put there conciously. Most obviously with zilla
Myko, you missed the point. You should not be consciously putting 'slips', since it still looks bad on you.

I was a goon, and I couldn't win on my own. Zilla was a roleblocker that could. You hammered before I could get myself lynched, and get a lot of people to believe that Zilla must be town.

mykonian · Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:24 am

Xtoxm, you can also sit back, and hope your gut will do the work for you, or you are going to be very active, making sure that there is a lot to read, so that enough information is there to give people a good view on how everyone plays.

GIEFF got a lot of information, while not looking antitown, and because of that he was an important player. Sure, if he doesn't have a town around him that can use the information he creates, then it is not such a good tactic. But here he was the one that made the town do something.