Mini 757 - South Park Mafia (Game Over)

[charter]

Cartman: I'm gonna be on television, I'm gonna be on television.
Stan: We don't believe for a minute that you won that contest fairly, fat boy.
Cartman: Egh, stop defending your little girlfriend for writing about some stupid fish.
Stan: Dude, dolphins are intelligent and friendly.
Cartman: Intelligent and friendly on rye bread with some mayonnaise.
Stan: Dolphins are way smarter than you!
Cartman: If they're so smart, why do they live in igloos?
Stan: Dolphins don't live in igloos, that's eskimos!
Cartman: Dolphins, eskimos, who cares?! It's all a bunch of tree hugging hippie crap!
Stan: Tell me what you wrote about!
Cartman: I can't. I have to go home and get in shape.
Stan: Yeah, right! You'll go and sit in front of the TV and eat cheesy poofs, ass-master!
Cartman: Screw you, hippie!

Vote Count

dejkha - 4 (caf19, Spolium, RestFermata, Empking)

GhostWriter - 1 (Riceballtail)
Riceballtail - 1 (GhostWriter)
nonny- 1 (ZazieR)
caf19 - 1 (fuzzylightning)
Spolium - 1 (dejkha

Not Voting (3)

nonny
nicoliosgotpolio
EsoMonty

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

I will probably quote the whole episode of Weight Gain 4000 by the end of this game. Such a good episode.

[Spolium]

Timmrraaaah TIMAH

I'm not wiping it away. I think rather than being on a board, it's a on a piece of paper. I threw it away and you are all digging through the trash right now and I'm sitting on the bench waiting until you decide you're not gonna find it.

We've seen all we need to for a few people on the subject, so when I flip town, there'll be a nice amount to come back to.

No, that's not how it works.

THIS IS NOT HOW IT WORKS

DEJKHA:

guys would it be bad if we nameclaimed not think I think we should but it doesn't seem like a big deal if we do maybe perhaps I dunno lol

OTHERS:

explain yourself, dejkha

DEJKHA:

Nuh-uh

OTHERS:

EXPLAIN YOURSELF

DEJKHA:

OTHERS:

Oh okay let's drop this and pursue alternative avenues of investigation

HAAAAAAAAAH! Timmeh.

Answering challenges to your play is part and parcel of mafia. By all means refuse to deal with this, but you're only going to get more negative attention, and avoiding that will make you look bad too.

Heeeyroaaah Tim-Timmaaah

[dejkha]

I've already explained, but as you've just proven, you don't want to hear it, so I won't bother to try and explain further.

[Spolium]

Timmeh.

How have I "proven" that I don't want to hear it?

If you're prepared to respond to

the case outlined in post 93

then I'm all eyes. I'd prefer it if your response was clear, concise and identified any posts to which you refer in your defence.

Timmy, Timmy, Timmy.

[EsoMonty]

I missed a day. Sorry, I read through the topic once. My initial read is that dejka is avoiding questions.

Nonny is offering up good questions.

God help the town if Spolium is Mafia.

Would there be any harm in saying which character you are? As far as I know, the effects of each aren't known yet, possibly except for obvious ones like Officer Barbrady or maybe Satan if they're in it. Not that I'm suggesting claiming your character is the right thing to do, but with Spolium repeatedly giving a Timmy reference, it doesn't seem like it's a big deal...

This seems to be the post that everyone is wondering about. I think the initial question is harmless, asking about character claiming is harmless. The problem with the post is that he continues to offer an opinion that is not an opinion but rather an attempt to seem nuetral on the issue before other people had there say. And this is where I see that dej is acting scummy.

So, I do agree with Spolium and nonny in this respect.

Yeah, I can't see NC working in a game modded by someone who loves NCs.

I didn't know that, but that really makes sense.

In post 52: RBT says:

I'd be more inclined to believe that there were others in this game that had a post restriction, since that would make us seem to fit together better, mkay?

Is this where you are suggesting that you have a PR, why not just come out and say it? This post seems fishy.

In post 53, Dej says:

Did everyone purposely ignore that part of my post or is it just a coincidence that everyone missed it?

He also quotes the very text that I believe is fishy. Funny.
He then OMGUS. Not funny.

FOS: Dej

At this point, I am not really ready to vote for him, but he is doing some fishy things and while I do think he is being really scummy.

We also have a bunch of people lurking about, including myself prior to this post, it makes me wonder if the mafia is just letting us lynch ourselves. Which is the main reason I am not ready to vote for him.

I would like to hear from the following people on Dej.

RBT, Ghostwriter, Zazier and fuzzylightning.

[caf19]

dej, your characterisation of your opinion on nameclaiming is inconsistent. In 67,

Why would I say anything solid about something when I'm unsure of it? No really, I'd like to know.

implying pretty strongly that you weren't sure about whether to NC or not. But in 91:

No, it doesn't seem very neutral, but when I used the butt sex example, I didn't put it in that same situation. I merely said if I said out of nowhere "I don't like butt sex", which apparently means, to everyone else, that I support it.

which, if we strip away the colourful metaphor, implies that you were saying you were against nameclaiming but everyone interpreted it the opposite way. You can't have been both unsure, and against it... I don't understand why you have overreacted and changed your story. To me, the initial infraction (wanting to consider a nameclaim) was not so huge, but your subsequent reactions have been progressively worse.

Anyway, the ubiquity of the backlash against dej leads me to conclude that we should at least consider other avenues at this point in time. My vote will remain on dej for the time being, as it seems like a natural place to be, but let's think about a couple of other things:

@ Spolium: Jeez, the game's only been going for three or four days. It's not the time to be going after people for quietness yet - not everyone has to keep up with your frenetic rate of posting. Why did you go after RBT, and not fuzzylightning or GhostWriter who both have only one non-confirm post, or even Empking or me who have similar post rates/lengths to Riceballtail? (incidentally, fuzzy and Ghost, speak up if you're around...)

@ Empking: have you considered the possibility that RBT is PRed but isn't allowed to openly admit it? I think he's made it fairly clear from his posts that he does have one. (naturally, this has no bearing on his alignment, but I don't think it's likely that he is faking it).

[Spolium]

@ Spolium: Jeez, the game's only been going for three or four days. It's not the time to be going after people for quietness yet - not everyone has to keep up with your frenetic rate of posting. Why did you go after RBT, and not fuzzylightning or GhostWriter who both have only one non-confirm post, or even Empking or me who have similar post rates/lengths to Riceballtail? (incidentally, fuzzy and Ghost, speak up if you're around...)

If those with a very low number of posts don't deliver the goods when they get round to posting, it will be investigated. I agree that now is not the time to chase lurkers.

You and Empking, IIRC, have at least commented on content, which RBT has not.

I was questioning a lack of content/scumhunting, not quietness. There's a distinct difference between lurking and

active

lurking.

[Spolium]

Okay dejkha, howsabout a compromise? You don't have to respond to my entire wall o' suspicion (unless you

really

want to); the following questions encapsulate my main concerns.

1. You've said, following the near-unanimous rejection of a nameclaim, that you are against it too. Can you further elaborate on this? What in particular stands out as the best reason to not do it?

2. Do you stand by the declaration that you had no stance on a nameclaim in this game, when you suggested it in post 38?

3. Having conceded that

Butt Sex Metaphor v2.0

"doesn't seem very neutral", would you concede that your post 38 doesn't come across as very neutral either? If not, why not?

4. Do you think that a vote for reasons you deem to be "silly" necessarily suggestions that the voter is scummy? Why?

5. Refer to post 67 - can you explain the "apparently", and "as far as I can tell" in the context of your knowledge concerning the success (or lack thereof) of your reply to Rest "going through"?

6a. With regard to post 70 - you stated that "

depending on if everyone else seems to be as close minded as nonny, I may or may not change my vote to her

". How would the close(or open)-mindedness of others affect whether or not you change your vote on a particular player?

6b. What did you mean by "I may or may not change my vote"? Have you yet decided on whether you would change the vote to her based on your answer to question 6a?

7. In post 72, why did you single out Caf in particular as the most likely person to be open-minded?

8. Butt sex

8. Why are you witholding your "scumhunt" information?

[ZazieR]

Before I look back at the posts I have missed, one comment: 'Timmeh'
Please explain Spolium.

[Spolium]

TIMMMAAAAHHH Timmy Timmy

EBWOFP:

timmaaaargh

4. Do you think that a vote for reasons you deem to be "silly" necessarily

suggests

that the voter is scummy? Why?

Before I look back at the posts I have missed, one comment: 'Timmeh'
Please explain Spolium.

Can you be more specific?

Timmmmmeehhy

[ZazieR]

See your two posts above mine. No sign of a PR.

[Empking]

@ Empking: have you considered the possibility that RBT is PRed but isn't allowed to openly admit it? I think he's made it fairly clear from his posts that he does have one. (naturally, this has no bearing on his alignment, but I don't think it's likely that he is faking it).

His reaction to being asked doesn't seem like its what someone would write just because they're banned from claiming it. Also, I don't think banning things with grey area is something that an experienced mod would do.

[Spolium]

See your two posts above mine. No sign of a PR.

It's my first PR and I keep forgetting to stick to it.

Timmehh

[charter]

There is no penalty for accidently forgetting a post restriction. Willful negligence of a post restriction will result in a modkill.

[ZazieR]

Dejkha, there should have been a reason why you 'suggested' the name claims. And I want to know what it is. It's hard to believe that you didn't have a reason for it, but just for kicks.
And no, you didn't state why you mentioned it. If you did, show it.

And Empking said that I was fishing after I asked Spolium if he had a PR.

Post 65. That's one wrong similarity you're making. The thing about the name claim was a question, wondering if there would be anything wrong with it. This implies that you are in favor for it. But the butt sex is a statement. It only shows that you don't like it.

Wait, you actually didn't have an opinion about it and just have faith in the players answering? You let others think about it, for what? You mention something in which you have no opinion. Not buying this explanation.

Yep, claiming to get rid of all the arguments against you is the right thing to do

Not stating reasons for suspecting someone is also the correct way to go...
So what's the reason for not doing so?

Yep, RBT doesn't answer the question about the PR directly. Seems RBT has something to hide.

Refusing to discuss something that might be worth to discuss (see post 99) makes him really look scummy.

God help the town if Spolium is Mafia.

Deja Vu! I'll definitly remember this.

It also makes much sense to call some players already lurkers...
But Spolium apparently did this as well (according to Caf), may I ask where as I apparently missed it.


It seems very likely that at least one PR is real.

[dejkha]

Timmeh.

How have I "proven" that I don't want to hear it?

If you're prepared to respond to

the case outlined in post 93

then I'm all eyes. I'd prefer it if your response was clear, concise and identified any posts to which you refer in your defence.

Timmy, Timmy, Timmy.

You proved it by saying I didn't explain, which I did. My explanation being, I asked a question without suggestion. If you all took it the wrong way then oh well. It doesn't matter what it looked like I implied, because I didn't. But I can't answer questions about a suggestion that I didn't make.

BTW, what's 'NC'? Does it have another meaning other than 'Night Choice'? People are using the term and I don't think 'Night Choice' would fit right in how they're using it.

Okay dejkha, howsabout a compromise? You don't have to respond to my entire wall o' suspicion (unless you

really

want to); the following questions encapsulate my main concerns.

1. You've said, following the near-unanimous rejection of a nameclaim, that you are against it too. Can you further elaborate on this? What in particular stands out as the best reason to not do it?

2. Do you stand by the declaration that you had no stance on a nameclaim in this game, when you suggested it in post 38?

3. Having conceded that

Butt Sex Metaphor v2.0

"doesn't seem very neutral", would you concede that your post 38 doesn't come across as very neutral either? If not, why not?

4. Do you think that a vote for reasons you deem to be "silly" necessarily suggestions that the voter is scummy? Why?

5. Refer to post 67 - can you explain the "apparently", and "as far as I can tell" in the context of your knowledge concerning the success (or lack thereof) of your reply to Rest "going through"?

6a. With regard to post 70 - you stated that "

depending on if everyone else seems to be as close minded as nonny, I may or may not change my vote to her

". How would the close(or open)-mindedness of others affect whether or not you change your vote on a particular player?

6b. What did you mean by "I may or may not change my vote"? Have you yet decided on whether you would change the vote to her based on your answer to question 6a?

7. In post 72, why did you single out Caf in particular as the most likely person to be open-minded?

8. Butt sex

8. Why are you witholding your "scumhunt" information?

1. Rest's reason stands out the most to me, when she said, "In South Park, just about every character has turned antagonist at least once, plus theme games in general just work better when scum have protections against NC, so we should probably assume that's the case here."

She's right about the characters, a lot of them have had different sides. Certain ones like Cartman or Mr. Garrison, would be able to be scum but seem town.

2. Yes. I brought it up because you repeatedly were saying "Timmeh" and no one seemed to care. At the time I didn't know about PR's, given that I've never played in a game with them yet (as far as I know).

3. No, because the situation included people not caring that you seemed to be giving your role away. I don't think the butt sex metaphor is the same as the real statement I made.

4. I thought since it was silly, you might've just been jumping on it to attract attention to someone else, but apparently everyone felt the same way.

5.It might've posted it and I just didn't see it. That's a terrible thing to bring into a case BTW.

6a. If anyone understand what I said, I'd probably change my vote since she seemed to be pushing the case the hardest. If nobody knew what I meant, then obviously it's more likely a matter of opinion on how much she believes in her case.

6b. Since I have not, I'm not going to.

7. Because I've played with him before and he was useful and logical player, so I figured if anyone would understand, it would be him.

8. Because at this point it's about the discussion that has been going on and since everyone is on the same side, I won't say it until I know everyone won't counter it.

[Spolium]

BTW, what's 'NC'? Does it have another meaning other than 'Night Choice'? People are using the term and I don't think 'Night Choice' would fit right in how they're using it.

Name Claim

[nonny]

Still wondering your opinion on name claiming.

Well then, someone hasn't been reading.

Yes, I have. And I'm not the only one noticing that it's missing. If you were unsure of it and just asking opinions as you said then it would have been more like "hey guys, when would a nameclaim be appropraite?" Not "what's the harm in it, since we already know one person" See the difference?

Until the town is done with the subject it is on the board. You can't just wipe it away because you are getting unwanted negative attention over it.

I'm not wiping it away. I think rather than being on a board, it's a on a piece of paper. I threw it away and you are all digging through the trash right now and I'm sitting on the bench waiting until you decide you're not gonna find it.

We've seen all we need to for a few people on the subject, so when I flip town, there'll be a nice amount to come back to. Besides, I'm not gonna waste my time explaining when you clearly don't want to hear it and won't see it any differently anyway.

LIke I said it doesn't work that way. You can't throw away a discussion just because you don't like it anymore. Sorry this is a group game/effort you have to abide by others to play.

You can't say I don't want to hear it when I keep asking you about it. You have far from "clearly explained" your point/plight. So far you are just playing the victim over have a little negative attention, going so far as offering to claim? If you explained it throughly then I wouldn't keep asking about it and wanting you to show your opinions on the subjects.

6a. If anyone understand what I said, I'd probably change my vote since she seemed to be pushing the case the hardest. If nobody knew what I meant, then obviously it's more likely a matter of opinion on how much she believes in her case.
8. Because at this point it's about the discussion that has been going on and since everyone is on the same side, I won't say it until I know everyone won't counter it.

So basically you wanted to OMGUS vote but only if other poeple saw that I was "pushing" you? And you don't want to offer other information incase anyone will counter it? Eager to please much?

It was Esomonty, not spoilum that was lurkerhunting. I think though this is the point to make it known that you need to post to play and that we won't just let you slip by.

[dejkha]

Name Claim

Oh yes, of course. Thanks.

If you explained it throughly then I wouldn't keep asking about it and wanting you to show your opinions on the subjects.

I can't make it any clearer or straightforward than "I wasn't suggesting it", so if you don't understand after that, then you won't understand any other way I say it.

So basically you wanted to OMGUS vote but only if other poeple saw that I was "pushing" you? And you don't want to offer other information incase anyone will counter it? Eager to please much?

Nope

[nonny]

Okay if you weren't suggesting it why did you bring it up?

[dejkha]

See the initial question in the post. It wasn't rhetorical.

[Riceballtail]

FoS

anyone who's pushing for information from me. Clearly, if I didn't have a PR, I wouldn't use "mkay" at the end of every post I've made. It makes me feel like I'm talking down to people, which tends to aggravate the person I'm talking to. Because of this, I usually avoid the phrase at all. Double the FoS if I've ever played with you before and you know this is out of character for me. Scum want more info about the townies to find PRs. Figuring out names will lead to claims, which will lead them to NK the people they're most afraid of.

Yes, I'm Mr. Mackey. Sorry scum, but I'm vanilla. Happy now?

Hope you all learn from this, mkay?

That said,

UNVOTE; VOTE:Empking

for pushing the hardest on this.

[nonny]

Dejka, you mean you brought up nameclaiming on page what 2, because one person had an obvious name assocaited with them due to a PR? Have you ever played a game with a mass nameclaim before?


RBT that was the worst founded FoS I've ever seen. Since it's you that wanted to know if there where other PR's. Also in a game like this anyone could pick something characters say and pretend to have a PR.

FoS RBT

no one frickin asked for a claim. All they asked is for you to stop tiptoeing around saying you have a PR. A simple yes would have sufficed. There was no need to claim so completly. All it does is make you look jumpy and defensive.

Also as far as I could tell no one "pushed" you on this, they just thought the subtle hinting was silly, and asking you to either stop be subtle or admit a PR.

Now, what do you actually think about what has been discussed so far that doesn't revolve around yourself?

[dejkha]

Dejka, you mean you brought up nameclaiming on page what 2, because one person had an obvious name assocaited with them due to a PR? Have you ever played a game with a mass nameclaim before?

I haven't actually, but I'm aware of the effects. No one made mention of Spolium saying "Timmeh", so I didn't know if it would have a huge negative effect since someone was doing it so obviously. And like I said, I haven't played in a game with PR's, so I didn't know that could've been it.

[nonny]

That actually makes sense. If you could have said that earlier instead of getting defensive it would of been better. Now that you know other peoples opinions on nameclaiming, what do you think of it?

Also, nameclaiming usually doesn't take place till atleast day two. Never seen it earlier in my experience. Hence I did/do not understand why it was brought up so early.