Open 135 - Polygamist Mafia, Incomplete/Mod Error before 775

[Tenchi]

OK. I'm confused. Why am I getting your vote again?

[Tenchi]

Nevermind.

[Tenchi]

Prod: Ortolan

[zwetschenwasser]

Unvote; Vote: Tenchi

[AceMarksman]

zwet, what are your reasons?

Also, remember mykonian's threat..?

[zwetschenwasser]

Do you honestly think I care about one vote?

[AceMarksman]

Then you shouldn't care about this.

unvote, Vote: zwet

Now, what are your reasons for voting tenchi?

[zwetschenwasser]

To see his response. His last response to the Wall-e vote was quite interesting.

[zwetschenwasser]

Also, that's a pathetic excuse for a vote.

[AceMarksman]

Yes, your excuse is pathetic.

[Seraphim]

Vote Count:

Tenchi(2)

- Wall-E, zwetschenwasser

PieIsPopcorn(1)

- Tenchi

zwetschenwasser(2)

- Archon, AceMarksman

Not Voting(7)

- Sekinj, Gregory, AndyTony, mykonian, mikek, ortolan, PieIsPopcorn

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Current Deadline:

April 29th, 20:00 Central Time

LYNCH COUNT HAS BEEN REACHED! NOT VOTING HAS BEEN LYN-...oh, wait. Never mind. Jumped the gun on that one.

Prodding:

Ortolan
However, this prod will not count against him as he has not been inactive for 72 hours.

[Tenchi]

To see his response. His last response to the Wall-e vote was quite interesting.

I won't respond the same to your vote.

I reacted that way to Wall-E because we had played before, and he totally kicked my ass, and played on my noobiness. Also, I am familiar with his tinge of craziness, yet I am not sure whether its a tell of anything since I only played against him (with him being scum). So I'm taking everything from him this time with a grain of salt (meaning no extreme/rash reactions and super stupid noobiness from me, because it kinda cost us the game befroe).

I respect Wall-E's interpretation of my actions (eventhough I think it is wrong).

I voted Pie to elicit reactions ("I'm bored") and I do believe it worked.

[AceMarksman]

LYNCH COUNT HAS BEEN REACHED! NOT VOTING HAS BEEN LYN-...oh, wait. Never mind. Jumped the gun on that one.

bahahahaha.

Tenchi, what reactions were you trying to elicit?

[Tenchi]

LYNCH COUNT HAS BEEN REACHED! NOT VOTING HAS BEEN LYN-...oh, wait. Never mind. Jumped the gun on that one.

bahahahaha.

Tenchi, what reactions were you trying to elicit?

Dunno. Like this discussion perhaps? We gotta start somewhere.

[PieIsPopcorn]

So, what's the deal with zwet? He only posts one-line posts? Seems anti-town but if that's his usual style it's a null tell and we can't afford a policy lynch here.

This is interesting, in that not only does he seem to be defending zwet against a non-existant issue (His one-liners, that is his playstyle BTW), but he also states that "can't afford a policy lynch", when not only did zwet only have one vote, but it was a result of something irrelevant to policy.

Now, mikek could have been referring to mykonian's threat to vote zwet as a result of his one-liners. However, I fail to see how that single vote would lead to a policy lynch.

Pie seems very twitchy. There's no need to flip out when someone gets to three random votes. It's seven to lynch.

I despise random bandwagons. Not only are they (obviously) based on no reasoning, but if they go on for too long, they can spiral out of control and result in a lynch for the town. Does it always happen? No. But I've seen in happen, and it really puts the town at a disadvantage. In addition, since they're not based on actual reasons, the reactions that you obtain from them are a lot less valuable than the reactions from bandwagons with legitimate basis.

Therefore I always try to have my wagons be based on in-game behavior. I decided to see if I could probe Tenchi by voting for him, since I wasn't aware of how he reacted to votes, and I didn't preview the post. Next thing I know there are three votes on him, based on literally nothing. So I get off the wagon, and explain why I feel that a random wagon is not beneficial. The end.

This was pretty funny:

pie seems a little nervous...

Really? I don't see where that interpretation comes from, and I'm pretty good at reading the tone of my posts. I'm a tad confused, but not nervous.

Nervous, much?

Although, from a more objective perspective, I was somewhat edgey for actual reasons, which I will cover in a moment, I don't really feel that I was acting nervous there. I was just saying I don't see where that interpretation comes from.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that we're going to massloverclaim before this day is up. This will provide us with useful info---it greatly reduces the number of possible combinations of players that could be polygamists, which makes it easier to analyse votes and such. I don't think it gets the polygamists much, either.

I fail to see what this gives us. The poligamists lose nothing as a result of this, they could already have lover clams set up. In addition, I fail to see how this reduces the number of players that could be polygamists, due to the setup.

It gives the polygamists information on whether they will be able to push certain lynches. (IE- "Ok, this pair has a scummy player, but the other player has been acting pro-town, so it might not be best to press a case on them. However, this other pair has been scummy, and the other player is not considered particularly pro-town. Let's go for them!) It also leads to some questions (Should we lynch a lover that has acted pretty pro-town just because we find the other lover scummy? Should it be ok if two players seem to be tunnelling on the same target just because they're lovers?) That would protentially distract from actual scumhunting, which only benefits those sinful, dirty, l33t-speak using, Uwe-Boll loving polygamists.

I believe that it gives a good deal of information to the scum, and not too much to the town, and could actually turn out to be a distracting factor.

I was just playing with Pie, but he seems unusually jumpy about something. My vote stays.

Meh, I really dislike being called a liar, especially when the claim isn't backed up. In addition, I was trying to juggle RL while keeping active in my Mafia games, so that might have added to the tone of my posts as well.

By the way, I'm pretty sure that we're going to massloverclaim before this day is up.

The hell we are. What would be the advantage for a mass claim, eh? Everyone has a viable claim partner (including the polygamists), so it would only tell the polygamists who their best kill would be.

Vote: mikek

Although I agree with you on the uselessness of massclaiming, the game IS nightless. Do you mean lynch targets?

Unvote; Vote: Tenchi

Interesting. Looks more like blatant bandwagoning than reaction-testing to me. Reaction-testing without providing a reason almost-never works. It especially doesn't work, when you STATE THAT IT WAS FOR REACTIONS BEFORE THEY HAVE REACTED.

To see his response. His last response to the Wall-e vote was quite interesting.

Vote: Mikek

I do like the pressure on Zwet though.

[Wall-E]

While I liked my post 74, I like pie's latest more. I'd join the mikek wagon if it came up strongly and mikek failed to properly address it, and for the record, I love to hammer.

[AceMarksman]

Connection between Wall-e and pie, while not scummy, has been noted.

[Wall-E]

The logic in my prior two posts is the link between them.

What do you think of post 74, Ace? Specifically of my analysis of Pie and Tenchi's alignments?

[ortolan]

Hey guys, I think it is useful to hold off on the mass lover-claim.

I will post something more substantial tomorrow.

[mikek]

About massclaim, I looked back at the previous polygamist game (viewtopic.php?t=9086) and they unanimously went for massclaim by the end of page 2. Thinking it through, here are what I see the advantages and disadvantages as being:

Pros

• Simplifies the game
  - A massclaim reduces the number of distinct entities from 12 to 6. It basically reduces this game to Lovers Mafia (4 townies, 2 mafia lovers) except with each "person" having two votes and two voices. Instead of looking for a group of 4 in 12 individuals, we'll be looking for 2 groups out of 6 to be linked. This exponentially reduces the number of possible groupings we have to hypothesize about.
  
• Can help catch scum
  - Once we know everyone's claimed lover, we can look more skeptically at any linkings/distancings between people who claim not to be related. Scum may have contradicted themselves or revealed inconsistencies, depending upon what situations arise.
  
• Removes noise
  - We've got a bit of a problem initially in that if two people seem to be linked, it could just be because they are a townie lover pair. Once we know all the claimed pairs, we won't get this noise interfering with scum hunting.

Cons

• Reveals targets
  - If a pair of townies are both particularly scummy or weak at defending themselves, that might make them a target for the scum to try and push a lynch on.
  
• Trains scum
  - Once the polygamists have made their false claims in-thread, they'll be more aware of the possibility of slipping up and revealing their true status.

Anything else? The conclusion I draw from this is that a massclaim gets us more information than it gets the polygamists, and it gets us more useful information if we don't do it right away. So I think we're going to want to massclaim eventually, but not right now. Probably late day one or early-to-mid day two. Thoughts?

[AceMarksman]

Massclaim is not the way to go, your cons heavily outweigh the pros.

Wall-e, 74 is a frown-face smily. There isn't much to think about.

[zwetschenwasser]

I am happy with Tenchi's response.

Unvote

[AceMarksman]

What about tenchi's response made you happy? Who are you most suspicious of?

Mikek: notice how the polygamists won that game as well...

[Tenchi]

ATTENTION TOWN: I have a problem with what's happening.

I don't know if it's just me or this game is moving too slow/cautious, especially discussion wise. The biggest power of town lies in catching scum in their foursome association, and we can't do it with this kind of activity.

What happened to the excitement last during the confirmation stage. I feel like almost everyone went into hiding!

Vote: Zwet

[zwetschenwasser]

OMGUS ALERT!!!

Unvote; Vote: Tenchi