Welcome Amished, I'll clarify some of your posts here as well. (:
DDD wrote:You answered this yourself with your question to Korts. "I thought hopping on a wago, without a reason, was a scumtell." Since I had a reason; not a scumtell by your own assumed logic. Even when done without a reason, it also depends on who does it because it's part of some people's meta whether town or scum.
So by that you mean if a person likes jumping on wagons in every game regardless of alignment, it is not a valid reason? Does that mean that we have to properly review the games that the people have played in before stating something?
DDD wrote:JOKE: You totally missed it
-_-
Percy wrote:This says to me that you start off with the assumption that sonic is pro-town. If he's scum with Korts, then of course he's going to kind of attack Korts while breaking up the fight. If he's scum on his own, then he'd want to break up the fight, and maybe he jumped in too early, or a thousand other things. You're too quick to dismiss the scum possibilities, and too quick in concluding that he's protown.
Nope. I listed out those possibilities because I'm the type of person who will list out every single possibility and rank them according to likelihood. Since the possibility of Sonic being protown is the highest, I go according to the assumption that he is protown.
Percy wrote:why does she want to make it look like I'm better than I've been playing?
I did not say that you are playing a stellar game, by the way. I am just saying that your actions seem protown enough to me. But you assumed it to be that I think you're playing very well. There's a difference - like for example, tunnel-vision is pro-town in my books, but it's not necessarily good play.
Percy wrote:kirroha, make sure you say who you're quoting when you quote. It makes it much easier to read.
I wrote their names at first, and the subsequent quotes all are written by the same person(s).
Percy wrote:Incoming opinion: I think that kirroha's initial post was quite scummy. However, I'm happy with her answers and clarifications right now.
What was in my initial post that was scummy, and what 'answers and clarifications' did I provide that eased my scumminess?
Mitey wrote:I have done a quick read and have to agree with my plutonic partner (hehehe). I'm having a hard time trusting her but, feel the need to be able to talk pretty openly with her.
You mean that you agree with me the fact that it's hard to trust your platonic partner, or you agree with me about something else?
DDD wrote:This is a good thing, replace an unknown with a player that I've good a real good read on.
Um, how did you manage to get a good read on someone who just said, "Hi there, starting my read now "?
DDD wrote:To answer your question though, kirroha hasn't helped herself at all, really. Amongst other things she "confirms" her vote on Korts and then in her next post she voices her uncertainty of her own position. It looks to my eye as if she's trying to rally support to her position by projecting strength while simultaneously distancing herself from the mislynch.
I confirmed my vote because Korts just insisted that I was scum, so I just joked by insisting that he was scum too. Korts was the most suspicious to me that time and that was why I voted for him in the first place.
Amished wrote:First off, I want to mention that I'm glad Kirroha stopped doing the like four options for every action as that would get you WIFOM'd to hell if you were town (I view that type of posting to be easily manipulated), and give you easy outs if you were scum.
The reason why I wrote 4 options and stuff is not to keep neutral. I wrote 4 options because, as I said to Percy just now, I am the type who thinks better by writing down all the possibilities of something, and ranking them up according to their probability and likelihood. That way, it's easier for me to look back and see all my thoughts.
Amished wrote:Next: I'm trying to figure out why Percy is at L-2. Oh, meta and then accused IIOA; coupled with a non-removed RVS vote.
Ok, sorry for bothering you with a question, but what's IIOA?
Amished wrote:WRT: Kirroha: I've seen a couple newbie scum tells from her. Most notably is what KMD picked up on concerning not voting for Korts right away, then after KMD brings it up in 70 has found reason enough to vote and confirm vote in 75 and 80 respectively so as to get rid of appearances of not wanting to vote him. Note that I think she would do this regardless of Korts' role, not wanting to vote for a townie, or not wanting to vote for a scumpartner.
One of the reasons why I did that was because Korts didn't seem suspicious to me the first time I posted, since he didn't actually post much. But after I posted and ranked him as most suspicious, he immediately retaliated and speaks as if I'm confirmed scum. I don't know if he's doing that as a joke or not, but it's not very appealing to me since it seems quite OMGUS. That's why I voted for him.
Amished wrote:Also, with her stance on my previous player, 2 out of the 3 have sonic as scum, and the reasons for dismissing them are weaker, while the first is overexaggerated for those people who don't know my alignment. To assume so much over a simple statement and classify as really pro-town kinda pings my scumdar as well.
I'm not saying that sonic plays well. It's just that being honest, pointing out mistakes that do not benefit him and trying to break up a fight that he could do well without it breaking in the first place are towntells. I think that scum would not want to come out of hiding so easily over such a simple matter. And I didn't completely clear him. Everyone here is a suspect.
Amished wrote:Nitpicking every post, especially of the person attacking you really gets on my nerves as well. Can't say whether or not this is a scumtell yet, but it's anti-town IMO as it tests the patience of the town by giving them something generally worthless to read. I feel that leads to people skimming over your posts which is a good way for scum to hide any slips.
Korts was the one who nitpicked my post at first. -_- And I think townies are supposed to look through posts very carefully and not skim through, because that's the only way to find scum. Especially when I seem suspicious to them, it makes all the more likely for them to look through my posts properly to find any slips. Only scum find no need to look through posts since they know who the scum are anyway and all they need to do is to conceal themselves.
DDD wrote:But it's another possiblty that it's a setup to remove the vote later if she thinks that there's too much pressure on a scumbuddy. It's just odd behavior for a player project such confidence in their action, then immediately trying to remove their culpability from the situation.
As I had said, I wasn't that sure about Korts' scumminess. It's just that he insisted that I was scum, so I insisted that he was scum too. Confirm votes don't do anything in particular, right?
Korts wrote:Will post later, but the fact that no-one in particular is all over kirroha for post 87 tells me I may be tunneling too much.
Eh... back in Newbie 754 our IC said that tunneling is a towntell since scum don't like to reveal themselves that much. -_- Well, since that is so, I better review everything properly later on.
Korts wrote:Playing by the book is not a very successful scumhunting technique. If you can't find more scum motivation for it than town motivation, then it's not a scumtell. And early game, there is no harm in mindless wagoning, au contraire!
Fine, fine... *looks up dictionary to find the meaning of "au contraire" I was sure I've seen it before, just forgot its meaning.*
Korts wrote:And that is what I meant. Like I said, wagoning is much more constructive in the early game than holding onto a single vote on a single player for a single post's mistake.
Really? In the early game I'll rather vote for the person I find most suspicious than wagoning (after all we are trying to lynch the scummiest person). I guess we think differently then?
Korts wrote:you are thick
...
Korts wrote:Either he is your scumpartner, or you were doing the aforementioned buddying up routine--I don't care right now, you're scum in either scenario.
I do find sonic townish. Even his 'successor' Amished seems to be trying hard to help the town, so I don't see any reason for heavily suspecting any of them. I find them pro-town, so why can't I say they are pro-town? Is it wrong?
Korts wrote:You are misrepresenting my stance here again. If you had bothered to read my initial post against you you could've seen that it was not mainly your take on me that bothered me, it was the wishy washy stance on Mitey, the absolute pro-town view of sonic, the take on Kmd.
I never absolutely thought that sonic was town. I can't absolutely think that anyone is town. Everyone is a suspect here. I just find him pro-town because of the reasons I provided somewhere above for Percy.
Korts wrote:Don't act like I haven't. In every post where I mention misrepresentation I show you how you did it and what it was you misrepresented. Read my posts again.
But to me, it really felt as if you had suspected those people. So I don't really think it's misintepretation. Otherwise, why would you vote Mitey (you cleared that up though in the previous post) and get into an argument with Kmd over small matters?
Korts wrote:Because while you said that Percy is leaning town, you outright stated that you don't believe sonic could be scum based on something that is utterly inconsequential and a nulltell on any scale.
Just in case you didn't notice, I posted a list of who I find most suspicious -> least suspicious, and Percy was at the bottom of the list, followed by sonic. I found Percy the least suspicious, and not sonic.
Korts wrote:Why plead incompetence now?
Look, I'm trying to understand where I've gone wrong intepreting other people's actions. So if I really misintepreted everything, I want someone to teach me about how to analyze others' posts. If I had really misintepreted you, and you're town, I don't want to continue doing so. You can understand that, right?
DDD wrote:First her reaction to her partner is suspicious. Scum doesn’t want their partner lynched; townies should have no problem with it if their partner is scum. Furthermore, kirroha drops minor suspicion on her partner (to give the appearance of actually considering her partner as scum), but then immediately writes it off due to potential bias. So she’s not ignored her partner, done her due diligence in evaluating them as scum, and then dismissed them. It’s a terribly convenient way for scum to look good and avoid putting their partner in the limelight where they might cost them the game.
As I have said, I don't trust Mitey much even though I'm trying to, since it's hard to find scum if you can't even trust in your own partner, but like I said, I'm trying to. If we don't trust even a bit in our partners, it would be hard to find scum since our partners are the only people we can ever talk to quietly, and we must cherish that. However, if Mitey has really done something suspicious to make me suspect her, I would have no-questioned voted for her. But Mitey hasn't posted much, and hasn't done anything suspicious for me to want to vote for her.
DDD wrote:Her tendency to lay out every option in the Korts case isn’t pretty either. What purpose does it serve? It can just as easily be done in your head, or on scratch paper, or in word privately and only her conclusions shared with us. It doesn’t help us to bog us down with arguments that are just going to be tossed out. So it’s mostly for show, a pro-town player doesn’t need to look like they’re going through the motions, scum does.
I have to write them down, or it would be confusing since everyone would wonder, "Why did she come to that conclusion?" There's no harm done in showing what I'm thinking, unless you all really think it's very troublesome to read. Then I'll stop posting those options. The only reason why I use options is so that I can write down all the possibilities and try to see how plausible each one is. It'll be easier that way.
DDD wrote:Her evaluation of sonicchaos (SC) is bizarre and completely opposite of my read. Her pro-town read on him is entirely based on him “breaking up the fight between korts and kmd” which simply didn’t happen. I mean look at the post she quoted, SC posts a single line pointlessly summing up the korts/kmd situation, there’s no fight breaking up there he’s offering a passing thought before he posts pointless (and incorrect) setup garbage. And her argument that scum wouldn’t correct the mod on proper vote count is completely bogus as well as someone else also noted.
It's because I found no benefit for the scum to do such a thing. If sonic was scum, he would benefit more staying in the shadows and being careful about saying the right things than just be frank. He reads town to me.
DDD wrote:Later on there’s the anti-town behavior that I noted with her confirm of her vote followed by her very next post which backpedals from that confidence to try and distance herself from the vote that she was just so sure of. All in all, there’s plenty of anti-town behavior from kirroha to justify placing and sustaining a vote.
Read above.
I'll post about what I think about the players again tomorrow. Hopefully, if not the day after tomorrow.
with a chainsaw.
For one reason, I had a mix up between soccerhate and sonic. I meant sonic.
Though did might change as I'm a zombie now 
