Newbie 807 - Game Over

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

ChannelDelibird (2) Kichirou, bgg1996

CancerBottle (2) ChannelDelibird, dothefandango
bgg (2) CancerBottle, crazypian
crazypianist1116 (1) FoShizzle

Not voting (2) FatedLunar, Kard

With 9 alive, 5 to lynch.

Snow White replaces FatedLunar, thanks!

To clarify; she did

not

pick up her original role PM.

[Snow White]

Hi everyone. Sorry im joining so late but i hope to make up for it by helping town win!! Obviously.

Im going to start be re-re-reading the topic to see what ive said, before posting my thoughts, suspicions and maybe even my vote.

[Snow White]

CDB's tunnelling of Kard is suspicious. If i had been in the game earlier i would have also wondered about

of course im not

too. And i think Kard is entitled to ask questions as questions is what put pressure on pepole. As a player he has a right to ask questions.

CBD appears innocent because he has not a vote on Kard. But equally this could be WIFOM. And yet you continue to tunnel CancerBottle for his additional questions. You seem rather defensive CBD but i think this is just because your an IC and trying to get conversation started for the minute.

Im not going to get into the whole Metagaming concept because my basic concept is that it is lying and adjusting your play to make you unpredictable for future games. Anyone can do it. And for an innocent basing it on someone, you can be horribly wrong.

CDB has 3 votes on him. 2of the people have been fading from view and i think they had just bandwagoned to get things moving. Neither of them have had much explainations to their votes and i would like an explaination from Kirichou's "CDB's vote was random" and bgg1996 "he's suspicious" before i vote for either one of them. They could have been plain old townies who just got bored after trying to rush the game along.

Im concerned however with crazypianist1116 while i was reading CDB's rebutals against Kard i found them to be antagonistic and promoting discussion and questioning while CDB put Kard in the frame for making CDB look suspicious on flimsy evidence.

Additionally, I don't feel like CDB's posts have put any suspicion on Kard. CDB isn't attacking Kard, he's defending himself against Kard's FoS.

And when someone says they want to leave something behind them, they will not usually bring it up again even to say "GUISE STOP!!" Just my opinion.

Kard8p3: Why didn't you defend ChannelDelibird in 55 after you wanted to "put everything behind [you]"?

but i would suggest that Kard answer you because this topic as he would have wished is not going away. Even though i for one, feel as though it has been exhausted. But that is just my opinion.

DoTheFanDango gave his reason of voting CancerBottle. ie. to make things interesting and see who would leap on the bandwagon. Im surprised you did not realise this or just ignored it.

Tempted to change my vote for the purpose of speeding this up, or even to make it more interesting.

In fact, lets!

VOTE CancerBottle

Vote crazypianist

until you can explain your thought process.

[CancerBottle]

*headdesk*

On my first read-through, I thought Kard's last response in this first exchange was to something else. Hooray for not paying attention, but running your mouth off anyway. In any event, it deflates my argument against CDB.

Nah, you don't have to link me, as you could be a scum, therefore, if someone pointed out what you said, you could simply link them to old games to throw them off your trail. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure if you are or are not scum, I was simply acting on what I believe should be done.

I don't agree with your logic here. Evidence of a player's past behaviour as scum or town can help people to judge on their alignment in current games depending on whether they behave the same or differently than in the past. Are you suggesting that I would deliberately do something that might be suspicious as town in the past so that I could do it again as scum and be able to give evidence that it's something I do as town?

I do indeed believe you could have deliberately done that, but I could be(and most likely am) wrong. I will just have to wait to find out.

Kard first suggests CDB might use past games to explain future behavior. That's fine. However, CDB interprets this as an accusation that he was playing poorly as Town in previous games in order to trick us in future games. This response seems overly defensive; Kard does not appear to suggest that. But wait! Kard then says he did in fact suggest CDB was throwing games intentionally to cite it later.

Kard later confirms this:

Indeed, that was the correct interpretation, and no need to apologize. You are once again correct, I can't make that argument.

What made CDM scummy in my eyes was that he seemed to be making a strawman argument out of Kard's suggestion. But if the Kard says he really was making that argument, it isn't much of a strawman, is it?

Are you suggesting that I would deliberately do something that might be suspicious as town in the past so that I could do it again as scum and be able to give evidence that it's something I do as town?

This is a bit of a reach, don't you think? I mean, I don't see Kard suggesting that you have deliberately played scummy as town in a previous game, only to be able to cite that playstyle in other games.

Indeed, besides it's possible that he is a scum, but he did not deliberately play that way in previous games, so he's using this to his advantage. Or maybe I'm looking to much into this; either way, I'm sure I'm wrong somehow.

Here, with me being loud and annoying, Kard hedges his way out of the exchange, saying CDB might be doing either or all to throw off the town, or his suspicions on CDB might be totally off.

I'm not quite sure what to make of the entire exchange. My first inkling is to assume both CDB and Kard are townies, and CDB didn't want to give the wrong impression as the game's IC. Thus explaining the over-defensiveness. Kard is simply a townie over-interpreting things, because there isn't much to go on. When confronted with why his suggestion is outlandish, he tries to distance himself from the argument, understandably.

However, FatedLunar's suggestion (post 54) that Kard might be scum trying to hook a townie seems quite plausible as well.

While we could lynch one of them, or me for that matter, to find out if one or all is engineering something scummy here, let's try to find something more concrete.

What do you all think?

...

Well Kichirou has claimed his vote was random, while Bgg1996 states he voted for CBD because he was

"suspicious."

Careful, he said that CDB's

vote

was suspicious.

FatedLunar: Do you still think that Kard may be scum? What do you think about the fact that CDB was at L-2?

Kichirou & bgg1996: TALK PLEASE

That's true:

Then what about you, bgg1996? Why did you vote for CBD?

His vote seemed suspicious.
Besides, it's the first round.

In response to Bgg1996, are you saying the town can afford to be more "loose" with votes because it's the first day? Well, I actually agree somewhat, but it's not a good idea to vote imprudently simply because there's an abundance of townies on Day 1.

[crazypianist1116]

CBD appears innocent because he has not a vote on Kard. But equally this could be WIFOM. And yet you continue to tunnel CancerBottle for his additional questions. You seem rather defensive CBD but i think this is just because your an IC and trying to get conversation started for the minute.

I don't think CDB would intentionally start discussion that would put him under fire and which at a time put him at L-2

Im not going to get into the whole Metagaming concept because my basic concept is that it is lying and adjusting your play to make you unpredictable for future games. Anyone can do it. And for an innocent basing it on someone, you can be horribly wrong.

True

CDB has 3 votes on him. 2of the people have been fading from view and i think they had just bandwagoned to get things moving. Neither of them have had much explainations to their votes and i would like an explaination from Kirichou's "CDB's vote was random" and bgg1996 "he's suspicious" before i vote for either one of them. They could have been plain old townies who just got bored after trying to rush the game along.

They've been rather inactive. If they're so bored, they should start discussion.

Im concerned however with crazypianist1116 while i was reading CDB's rebutals against Kard i found them to be antagonistic and promoting discussion and questioning while CDB put Kard in the frame for making CDB look suspicious on flimsy evidence.

Additionally, I don't feel like CDB's posts have put any suspicion on Kard. CDB isn't attacking Kard, he's defending himself against Kard's FoS.

Yes CDB's posts have in some ways tried to make Kard look more attacking BUT in post 44 he said

I know. I tried to word my post to make it clear that I was responding to the possibility, rather than an outright accusation.

Perhaps he did that after the fact, but I don't think so

And when someone says they want to leave something behind them, they will not usually bring it up again even to say "GUISE

I'll assume you meant "GUYS"

STOP!!" Just my opinion.

Kard8p3: Why didn't you defend ChannelDelibird in 55 after you wanted to "put everything behind [you]"?

but i would suggest that Kard answer you because this topic as he would have wished is not going away. Even though i for one, feel as though it has been exhausted. But that is just my opinion.

I wanted to know why Kard didn't defend CDB when he was at L-2 which resulted (at least 1/3) from the argument that Kard wanted to put behind him and CDB.

DoTheFanDango gave his reason of voting CancerBottle. ie. to make things interesting and see who would leap on the bandwagon. Im surprised you did not realise this or just ignored it.

Tempted to change my vote for the purpose of speeding this up, or even to make it more interesting.

In fact, lets!

VOTE CancerBottle

Vote crazypianist

until you can explain your thought process.

RTP! I totally agree with FoShizzle in post 83 that I jumped on DTF. I didn't understand what he was doing at the time, but now I do. Also the fact that you've pointed it out as a chance to identify those jumping on the bandwagon somewhat destroys our ability to do that.

FoS: Snow White

Especially because of the last point.
-----
I'll

Unvote

now as bgg1996 hasn't explained himself at all. I wonder if he's lurking or if he just isn't active.

Indeed, that was the correct interpretation, and no need to apologize. You are once again correct, I can't make that argument.
So, what do ya say, lets put this behind us?

After reading CB's analysis, this quote makes Kard seem scummy. He admits wrongly accusing CDB and then he just wants no one to look at the argument again. I suspected this the first time through, and now I do more.

Vote: Kard8p3

because of the above reason and because he will discuss more than bgg1996

[crazypianist1116]

Additionally,

Hi everyone. Sorry im joining so late but i hope to make up for it by helping town win!! Obviously.

contradicts

If i had been in the game earlier i would have also wondered about

of course im not

Just noticed that.

[Snow White]

You are immediately writing me off as Mafia because i would have noted something at the beginning of the game or because i was late like the white rabbit? jk.

How was i contradictory?

Yes, you said you unFoS'd him after being asked by FoShizzle.

But i was wondering whether before you'd wrote your "FoS" up if you had chosen to ignore DoTheFanDango's explaination in his original post just to see would anyone agree with your opinion and needle DoTheFanDango on their suspicions if they had any. And normally when i unsuspect something i usually drop it in somewhere that their explaination has checked out. But thats the individuals call.

[ChannelDelibird]

Haven't got time to go through your whole post, Snow White (welcome to the game!), but CP is right, you did contradict yourself.

First you said you were hoping to make up for joining late by helping town win. <- i.e., you said you were pro town. Then you said that you found my saying "of course, I'm [town] " suspicious. So do you find it scummy to mention that you are pro-town, and if so, why did you do just that?

I'll catch up on the rest tomorrow.

[Snow White]

lol. thanks for the welcome, and yes, i do see it now as a contradication.

My bad. XD

Yes, i will admit that i think it is generally a scummy thing to do, but it doesnt qualify a vote. I dont think i ever said that it did but it does warrant questions to be raised.

I can only say i meant my first post to be interpreted to be as friendly as possible and i made it before i started re-reading the topic and started joting down notes.

Ordinarily i would have found someone saying "but of course im not" suspicious. But i do understand now where i similarily went wrong. My first post a kinda brief self introduction was abstracted from the second one which was meant to be the serious one. And this is all i can say in my defense.

[Kard8p3]

After reading CB's analysis, this quote makes Kard seem scummy. He admits wrongly accusing CDB and then he just wants no one to look at the argument again. I suspected this the first time through, and now I do more.

Vote: Kard8p3

because of the above reason and because he will discuss more than bgg1996

I suppose one could look at it that way, but sorry, I only wanted to put it behind us because I didn't mean for it to escalate to that level. I didn't expect my FoS to turn into a 3 page discussion.

OMGUS Vote: crazypianist1116

[crazypianist1116]

I suppose one could look at it that way, but sorry, I only wanted to put it behind us because I didn't mean for it to escalate to that level. I didn't expect my FoS to turn into a 3 page discussion.

This was what I wanted to hear. I'll

Unvote

now. I'll wait until hearing CDB's analysis tomorrow until casting another vote. FoShizzle, does your vote still stand? Of the 3 votes I have now, yours was random and you still haven't answered my question at post 97.

Snow White:
I FoS'd DTF because I thought his vote was somewhat weak. For example, I could vote for FoShizzle to "make the game more interesting." It seemed as if the vote was out of nowhere and didn't give a solid reason. I wasn't trying to get other people to agree with me, I was trying to find out more about his reasoning. Also if you read post 86, you would know that I said that his explanation checked out.

Also, I'm not writing you off as mafia; I FoS'd you not voted you.

[Kard8p3]

I too will

unvote

[Xtoxm]

FoShizzle and dothefandango prodded.

[dothefandango]

I can't really post when nothing is happening...

[Snow White]

Being nice and polite to each other does not a Mafia game make.

Unvote: Vote Kard8p3.

Your unvote leads me to believe you vote irrationally for people who vote for you, instead of having reasons to actually vote for someone.

Why did you unvote Crazypianist?

Are you trying to make friends or are you dismissing the idea that crazypianist maybe Mafia? Why?

Crazypianist

IGMEOY

[dothefandango]

Kard didn't jump on me when I randomly voted for him to start. No reason to point a finger at this stage like that.

[crazypianist1116]

Why did you unvote Crazypianist?

Do you mean "Why did you, crazypianist, unvote?" or "Why did you, Kard8p3, unvote crazypianist?"

If the later than why IGMEOY?

[bgg1996]

Ah I'm here I'm here.
He just seemed suspicious is all.
A lot of people random vote, at least I have a little reason.
I'm here I'm here.

[dothefandango]

You should have your eye on everyone -- its the first day!

[crazypianist1116]

Ah I'm here I'm here.
He just seemed suspicious is all.
A lot of people random vote, at least I have a little reason.
I'm here I'm here.

Perhaps you could give a reason as to why he seems suspicious. There's more evidence to vote for somebody now than just saying they're suspicious. Also, I've been begging for a response from you. What do you think of what has happened in the past 50 or so posts?

Kichirou the same goes to you.

[bgg1996]

You want a reason? Here.

He was the first to vote.
A mafia would be more active as he would be waiting to night kill someone.
A townie however, would be less active.
There is then the possibility that he is a cop/doctor.
I cannot disprove this theory, however, It would be less likely, because if he was mafia, then the other mafia would assist him in voting for the same person, most likely without a reason.
Both Channeldelibird, and dothefandango voted for cancerbottle, without clear reason. I can then deduce that If ChannelDelibird is mafia, then dothefango is also mafia, and if ChannelDelibird isn't, then dothefango is most likey a townie. Therefore, even if ChannelDelibird is good, then we can get valuable information from him.

[crazypianist1116]

He was the first to vote.

I don't want to go into the whole metagaming thing again but to suspect someone because of that point is unprovable and thus null.

A mafia would be more active as he would be waiting to night kill someone.
A townie however, would be less active.

Firstly,

As an IC, it's my job to talk as much as possible, particularly at the start of the game, in order to help you guys into the rhythm of the game.

Secondly, more active when you're waiting? That seems contradictory. Also it seems as if you're defending your inactivity. You're blatantly calling yourself townie in this post which is a scummie move.

There is then the possibility that he is a cop/doctor.
I cannot disprove this theory, however, It would be less likely, because if he was mafia, then the other mafia would assist him in voting for the same person, most likely without a reason.

Are you trying to say that because DTF voted for the same person that CDB voted for, it's more likely that they're both mafia? Additionally, I had voted for CancerBottle before. Are you accusing me as well?

Both Channeldelibird, and dothefandango voted for cancerbottle, without clear reason. I can then deduce that If ChannelDelibird is mafia, then dothefango is also mafia, and if ChannelDelibird isn't, then dothefango is most likey a townie. Therefore, even if ChannelDelibird is good, then we can get valuable information from him.

CDB originally voted for CancerBottle as a

RANDOM

vote. RVS (random voting stage) is common in all mafia games. If you're accusing his vote of being suspicious then you're accusing everyone else's random vote of being suspicious as well. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Reading CDB's posts yields his explanation of why he held his vote for CancerBottle. Specifically, post 92. Also, DTF has a reason for his vote, to "stir things up." Also, as Snow White pointed out above, it was to see who else would jump on the bandwagon.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote:bgg1996

[crazypianist1116]

Mod: Are FoShizzle and Kichirou playing?

It's been 4 and 3 days respectively since their last posts.

[Xtoxm]

Kichirou prodded.

FoShizzle has already been prodded, he has about 24 hours left to post or he will be replaced.

[bgg1996]

He was the first to vote.

I don't want to go into the whole metagaming thing again but to suspect someone because of that point is unprovable and thus null.

A mafia would be more active as he would be waiting to night kill someone.
A townie however, would be less active.

Firstly,

As an IC, it's my job to talk as much as possible, particularly at the start of the game, in order to help you guys into the rhythm of the game.

Secondly, more active when you're waiting? That seems contradictory. Also it seems as if you're defending your inactivity. You're blatantly calling yourself townie in this post which is a scummie move.

There is then the possibility that he is a cop/doctor.
I cannot disprove this theory, however, It would be less likely, because if he was mafia, then the other mafia would assist him in voting for the same person, most likely without a reason.

Are you trying to say that because DTF voted for the same person that CDB voted for, it's more likely that they're both mafia? Additionally, I had voted for CancerBottle before. Are you accusing me as well?

Both Channeldelibird, and dothefandango voted for cancerbottle, without clear reason. I can then deduce that If ChannelDelibird is mafia, then dothefango is also mafia, and if ChannelDelibird isn't, then dothefango is most likey a townie. Therefore, even if ChannelDelibird is good, then we can get valuable information from him.

CDB originally voted for CancerBottle as a

RANDOM

vote. RVS (random voting stage) is common in all mafia games. If you're accusing his vote of being suspicious then you're accusing everyone else's random vote of being suspicious as well. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE! Reading CDB's posts yields his explanation of why he held his vote for CancerBottle. Specifically, post 92. Also, DTF has a reason for his vote, to "stir things up." Also, as Snow White pointed out above, it was to see who else would jump on the bandwagon.

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote:bgg1996

If you're going to suspect me for explaining myself, then I have half a mind to change my vote to you. But I have the other half to tell me that you're not a mafia, or at least I don't have a reason to believe that.

yet

. You know I was inactive. You know I can't imagine it being very fun as a townie. You have no idea who everyone is, and everyone shoots bullets, but only 7/9 of those are random. I would appreciate it if you didn't try to kill me. The mafia, cops , and doctors would post more. That's a fact. I didn't get a chance to read all of your posts explaining why you're not just some, killer on the loose. There is a reason the first man killed is almost always a townie, and it's not just because there are more towines. It's because the mafia will gang up on someone. I am not mafia. I know that. If three people are voting against me, well I think I've explained that that means 1 of them would probably be mafia. It wouldn't be you though. The mafia, I would imagine would start the landslide.

Unvote:ChannelDelibird
Revote:crazypianist1116