Newbie 817 (Game over!)

[bouchedufou]

Answering iama's q- I thought we were supposed to claim, because that's what I think people did in the game I watched. Which, I guess because it was themed, made it different, or maybe I remembered wrong.

lol- I think what iamusername found suspicious about bagsquad is that he had no earlier posts. Lurker!!!!

Wait, is baggy a lurker? What is a lurker? Can they be dangerous, or just annoying?

[bouchedufou]

on a similar note, I'd like to

vote: jeromus

Because apart from the first random vote, he's done nothing, and I'd like him to speak up.

[BagSquad]

I completely forgot this website existed, to be honest. I don't even lurk (and yes I am dangerous don't fuck with me bro).

Also, I'm still keeping my vote for iamausername, because he is mean, and talks a lot. Sounds like scum to me.

[startransmission]

I completely forgot this website existed, to be honest. I don't even lurk (and yes I am dangerous don't fuck with me bro).

Also, I'm still keeping my vote for iamausername, because he is mean, and talks a lot. Sounds like scum to me.

You completely forgot the website existed? So you /in for nexted... replied promptly to your role PM (as we all did, which is a good sign for the game) and then up and forgot that the website even existed? And as soon as a vote is cast against you all of a sudden remember that you're playing this game and respond to it? Not buying it- and if that's you being "honest" I can't trust you. In my book you went from quiet to being both an active lurker and a liar.

So, I'm gonna fuck with you bro...

Unvote: Jeromus

Vote: BagSquad

[Elmo]

Day 1, Vote Count #1

BagSquad (2) <- iamausername, startransmission
iamausername <- jeromus
crazypianist1116 <- Maemuki
Jeromus <- bouchedufou
Maemuki <- crazypianist1116

Not voting: BagSquad, Halidon, Vel-Rahn Koon.

The

deadline

is Friday, 14th August 22:00 UTC, which is 19 days, 13 hours and 23 minutes from this post. If deadline hits, there will be No Lynch.
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.

This vote count has been corrected as per post 34.

Vote:

iamausername

The whole thing needs to be bolded!

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I completely forgot this website existed, to be honest. I don't even lurk (and yes I am dangerous don't fuck with me bro).

Also, I'm still keeping my vote for iamausername, because he is mean, and talks a lot. Sounds like scum to me.

You completely forgot the website existed? So you /in for nexted... replied promptly to your role PM (as we all did, which is a good sign for the game) and then up and forgot that the website even existed? And as soon as a vote is cast against you all of a sudden remember that you're playing this game and respond to it? Not buying it- and if that's you being "honest" I can't trust you. In my book you went from quiet to being both an active lurker and a liar.

So, I'm gonna fuck with you bro...

Unvote: Jeromus

Vote: BagSquad

This. This is the most non-random thing to happen so far, and a little pressure isn't going to hurt.

vote: BagSquad

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Answering iama's q- I thought we were supposed to claim, because that's what I think people did in the game I watched. Which, I guess because it was themed, made it different, or maybe I remembered wrong.

lol- I think what iamusername found suspicious about bagsquad is that he had no earlier posts. Lurker!!!!

Wait, is baggy a lurker? What is a lurker?

Can they be dangerous, or just annoying?

Both. If it's a Townie lurking, it's mainly just annoying. If it's scum...

The problems with lurkers is that you can't get any info from their posts because they're not posting. So unless you can determine their alignment by process of elimination it's a bit unsettling to have someone lurking - there's no way to tell if they're the last person holding the gun.

People lurk for different reasons. The trick is to determine the type of lurking. Someone who is not saying too much, posting just enough to keep from getting prodded, and/or not really forwarding the discussion has a better chance to be scum than not. This is also known as active lurking.

Active lurkers need to get a few votes on them for some pressure and start answering questions. If the questions aren't answered soon they need to be lynched, IMO. Most Mods will NOT replace active lurkers, because they are fulfilling the "1 post every 72 hours" rule. Keeping an active lurker around past Day 1 or 2 is not a good idea, because Day 3/4 is the last day in the game, and active lurkers, if they're not scum, give a Mafia a perfect place to hide in the endgame. In the absence of any other information to make an informed decision, lynching an active lurker on Day 1 is preferable to just random lynching. You get rid of a scum, or you get rid of a Townie who wasn't really trying to help you win the game.

If someone has previous games you can look to see if this is "normal" play for them (this is called having a meta - by previous games a player has establised that this is "normal" behavior during play for them, and so it's not a reliable scum tell for that person).


I HIGHLY suggest you read over the wiki. There are some great articles in there, especially in the Theory section.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I completely forgot this website existed, to be honest.

I don't even lurk

(and yes I am dangerous don't fuck with me bro).

Also, I'm still keeping my vote for iamausername, because he is mean, and talks a lot. Sounds like scum to me.

Sorry for the triple post. As an example from the previous post of mine, I went and looked for other games from BagSquad to see if the statement "I don't even lurk" is true - I wanted to see if his meta matched what he was telling us.

There are no other games for BagSquad. He /in'd to the Newbie queue on 27 Nov of '08, and then nothing until this past Sunday (the 19th) when he /in'd again.

He was replaced by me, as the Mod, in Newbie 709 for failing to post after he confirmed his role PM (3 Dec - 9 Dec '08).

So, since you don't have any games on this site, I am leaning towards your statement of "I don't even lurk" as being an Appeal to Emotion, with the intent being to get people to back off. Add to this the fact that you were in a game I modded in late '08 in which you

lurked badly enough to get yourself replaced

and the statement is just complete and utter bullshit. BagSquad, I would like a defense of this please, and I'm expecting a very specific set of answers.

Also, can you point me to other games on other sites I can peruse? I normally don't care about meta, but your very first post of the game is scummy scummy scummy and I want to pursue this line.

As of right now, I do not intend to move my vote from BagSquad unless someone just flat-out admits that they're scum, or I get the answers I'm looking for. One lie is too much. A second wrapped in an Appeal to Emotion goes over the top. There's a reason for Lynch All Liars.

[crazypianist1116]

I would also like to know why crazy answered for bouche in post 11.

I responded to bouche's vote because I didn't think that his vote on iamusername was warranted. People shouldn't be forced to claim this early in the game. I'll agree that I was being a bit harsh to a new player of the game.

I am curious about Iamusername's vote on BagSquad. He said based on what everyone has posted so far, BagSquad seems the most scummy, but BagSquad did not write a single post up to that point. BagSquad's response seems like an OMGUS vote and I think he should have offered more insight into that. Bouchedufou's vote on Jeromus was a good vote. He is not posting at all. I have just one request of Bouchedufou: Stop double/triple posting and use the preview button to read over your posts.

Mod: You messed up the vote count

Iamusername is voting for BagSquad. Given that information, BagSquad is now at L-2. This is a situation for a mafia quicklynch. I find BagSquad suspicious, but not suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. I think startransmission is very suspicious as well. 2 of his 3 posts have been with a hot temper, very scum like. Vel-Rahn Koon, did you realize when making your vote that there were 2 votes already on BagSquad, not 1? As of right now, here is my final call:

Unvote

FoS: BagSquad, Startransmission, Jeromus

Jeromus, I would suggest you comment on the thread. Vel-Rahn Koon's post in 31 suggests what could happen to you if you continue lurking. I am also curious as to what Maemuki and Halidon are thinking.

Vel-Rahn Koon, you posted again before I could post so I'll respond to your new posts (specifically 32) now. You seem extremely adamant about lynching BagSquad. Sure, his two posts make him seem scummy, but don't you think you should wait a bit before making that lynch? There's tons of information to be had from day 1, and a page 2 lynch will cause all that information to fly away. Yes, if he doesn't posts too sparsely in the game then I'll support your vote to lynch him but it seems too early in the game to lynch anybody.

[Elmo]

Mod: You messed up the vote count

Iamusername is voting for BagSquad.

Oops. Fixed!

[iamausername]

I am curious about Iamusername's vote on BagSquad. He said based on what everyone has posted so far, BagSquad seems the most scummy, but BagSquad did not write a single post up to that point.

I'm not sure what you're curious about, because once you have observed that BagSquad had not made any posts at the time of my vote, it seems pretty self explanatory.

BagSquad is now at L-2. This is a situation for a mafia quicklynch.

Theoretically, yes, this could happen if BagSquad and everyone voting him are town. But if it did, who would end up on the chopping block tomorrow? It would almost certainly be the person who hammered a townie on page two. The mafia don't win by geting one townie lynched, they win by keeping themselves out of trouble until enough townies have died for them to overwhelm the town.

I think startransmission is very suspicious as well. 2 of his 3 posts have been with a hot temper, very scum like.

Why is a hot temper scum like?

---

Maemuki, what do you think of bouched?

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I completely forgot this website existed, to be honest.

I don't even lurk

(and yes I am dangerous don't fuck with me bro).

Also, I'm still keeping my vote for iamausername, because he is mean, and talks a lot. Sounds like scum to me.

Sorry for the triple post. As an example from the previous post of mine, I went and looked for other games from BagSquad to see if the statement "I don't even lurk" is true - I wanted to see if his meta matched what he was telling us.

There are no other games for BagSquad. He /in'd to the Newbie queue on 27 Nov of '08, and then nothing until this past Sunday (the 19th) when he /in'd again.

He was replaced by me, as the Mod, in Newbie 709 for failing to post after he confirmed his role PM (3 Dec - 9 Dec '08).

So, since you don't have any games on this site, I am leaning towards your statement of "I don't even lurk" as being an Appeal to Emotion, with the intent being to get people to back off. Add to this the fact that you were in a game I modded in late '08 in which you

lurked badly enough to get yourself replaced

and the statement is just complete and utter bullshit. BagSquad, I would like a defense of this please, and I'm expecting a very specific set of answers.

Also, can you point me to other games on other sites I can peruse? I normally don't care about meta, but your very first post of the game is scummy scummy scummy and I want to pursue this line.

As of right now, I do not intend to move my vote from BagSquad unless someone just flat-out admits that they're scum, or I get the answers I'm looking for. One lie is too much. A second wrapped in an Appeal to Emotion goes over the top. There's a reason for Lynch All Liars.

To answer crazy since he posted before I could finish this:

It's not about being harsh to a new player. By answering for someone, you're taking away information about that person that would have appeared when they answered the question. Let people answer questions for themselves so that we get the clues as to alignment that we need to win this game. It also makes it look like you're potentially feeding a partner information so they don't screw up and get caught.

Think about the game from iama's point of view, rereading the post where he voted for BagSquad, and you'll understand it. The OMGUS vote is much more telling than iama's post, and it adds another nail to the coffin.

BagSquad is at the top of my list, and I don't even have a distant 2nd. Because of that, BagSquad should not be lynched in the next 5 posts. Long days = good for town. Town needs information for the upcoming days. We also need to find his partner, assuming for the sake of this discussion that BagSquad flips scum when he's lynched.

No I did not realize that Elmo messed up the vote count, but even so, L-2 is not a bad place for BagSquad to be for the screwup he perpetuated. I'm very happy with BagSquad to be at L-2, and I think he should stay there until he answers the accusations leveled against him.

Mafia will NOT quicklynch BagSquad in this situation. They would both need to vote to do so, and it would out both of them way too early in the game. If BagSquad was at L-1 I could see the need to be ansy, but not L-2.

Your point against start for his aggressiveness is bad. In fact, this entire paragraph:

Mod: You messed up the vote count Iamusername is voting for BagSquad. Given that information, BagSquad is now at L-2. This is a situation for a mafia quicklynch. I find BagSquad suspicious, but not suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. I think startransmission is very suspicious as well. 2 of his 3 posts have been with a hot temper, very scum like. Vel-Rahn Koon, did you realize when making your vote that there were 2 votes already on BagSquad, not 1? As of right now, here is my final call:
Unvote
FoS: BagSquad, Startransmission, Jeromus

Is a bit off. You're attacking someone for being aggressive, which is not a scumtell. You're also slightly defending the scummiest, BY FAR, player in the game at this point. Why? If he's suspicious, why is he not suspicious enough for a lynch? Again, I'm not advocating lynching

right now

, and if that's also what you're trying to say you need to think about your word choices in the future, since your statement seems very black and white. I'm reading it as saying that you won't consider lynching him, yet you've placed him first in your FoS list.

[Maemuki]

What am I thinking?
Let's see...
First:

Unvote

Second:
I think that startransmission is a bit suspicious. He's a bit too fiery, but that may be his personality. So, he doesn't look too scummy. Yet.
About BagSquad... The "I don't lurk" and "don't mess with me, bro" attitudes, sure are interesting, to say the least. First you appeal to our noble emotions, then you say "don't mess with me." Wow.

On the end, I think that BagSquad is either scum, or a very Anti-Town Townie. But...no lynch yet from me. It's way too early.

[crazypianist1116]

It's not about being harsh to a new player. By answering for someone, you're taking away information about that person that would have appeared when they answered the question. Let people answer questions for themselves so that we get the clues as to alignment that we need to win this game. It also makes it look like you're potentially feeding a partner information so they don't screw up and get caught.

I think I may have misinterpreted Bouchedufou's post. He said "So this is a random vote to get the guy to claim?" I thought he was making an open question about his own vote, not questioning Jeromus' vote. That's why I answered his question and didn't really see any harm in answering it. If I'm still misinterpreting it, feel free to point it out.

No I did not realize that Elmo messed up the vote count, but even so, L-2 is not a bad place for BagSquad to be for the screwup he perpetuated. I'm very happy with BagSquad to be at L-2, and I think he should stay there until he answers the accusations leveled against him.

Mafia will NOT quicklynch BagSquad in this situation. They would both need to vote to do so, and it would out both of them way too early in the game. If BagSquad was at L-1 I could see the need to be ansy, but not L-2.

I know that 2 mafia will not both vote for BagSquad. But 1 mafia might, and a newbie at the game also might, thinking that it'll help move the game along. I don't want things like that to happen this early in the game, especially after the disastrous Day 1 lynch in 807 which happened in the game I was playing in.

Your point against start for his aggressiveness is bad. In fact, this entire paragraph:

Mod: You messed up the vote count Iamusername is voting for BagSquad. Given that information, BagSquad is now at L-2. This is a situation for a mafia quicklynch. I find BagSquad suspicious, but not suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. I think startransmission is very suspicious as well. 2 of his 3 posts have been with a hot temper, very scum like. Vel-Rahn Koon, did you realize when making your vote that there were 2 votes already on BagSquad, not 1? As of right now, here is my final call:
Unvote
FoS: BagSquad, Startransmission, Jeromus

Is a bit off. You're attacking someone for being aggressive, which is not a scumtell. You're also slightly defending the scummiest, BY FAR, player in the game at this point. Why? If he's suspicious, why is he not suspicious enough for a lynch? Again, I'm not advocating lynching

right now

, and if that's also what you're trying to say you need to think about your word choices in the future, since your statement seems very black and white. I'm reading it as saying that you won't consider lynching him, yet you've placed him first in your FoS list.

I've always seen aggressiveness as being a bit scummy. It makes a person seem as if they're a scum trying to get the rest of the town to follow their vote and lynch a townie. Sure it can be helpful if you're a doctor questioning a known mafia but that's not the case here. Besides, doesn't anyone else thinking saying:

A no lynch is a fucking disaster. Those who argue for it are always firmly at the top of my scum list. Just saying. I'd go into it, but our illustrious IC would do a better job.

to someone who's brand new to the game is extremely harsh? There was no need to curse, it was still the first page of the game. But back to VRK's point. I wouldn't mind a lynch of BagSquad, I just don't think it needs to be right now. Like I said:

if he posts too sparsely in the game then I'll support your vote to lynch him

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Well I did it. I fucked up and hit the Edit button on crazy's last post instead of hitting the Quote button. I put it back the way it was and am adding here what I was trying to reply to:

It's not about being harsh to a new player. By answering for someone, you're taking away information about that person that would have appeared when they answered the question. Let people answer questions for themselves so that we get the clues as to alignment that we need to win this game. It also makes it look like you're potentially feeding a partner information so they don't screw up and get caught.

I think I may have misinterpreted Bouchedufou's post. He said "So this is a random vote to get the guy to claim?" I thought he was making an open question about his own vote, not questioning Jeromus' vote. That's why I answered his question and didn't really see any harm in answering it. If I'm still misinterpreting it, feel free to point it out.

I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the fact that you answered the question iama asked in post 6. That's what the above is in reference to. I think we're talking about two different things, but the advice is still sound. Don't answer for others - let them dig their own graves

No I did not realize that Elmo messed up the vote count, but even so, L-2 is not a bad place for BagSquad to be for the screwup he perpetuated. I'm very happy with BagSquad to be at L-2, and I think he should stay there until he answers the accusations leveled against him.

Mafia will NOT quicklynch BagSquad in this situation. They would both need to vote to do so, and it would out both of them way too early in the game. If BagSquad was at L-1 I could see the need to be ansy, but not L-2.

I know that 2 mafia will not both vote for BagSquad. But 1 mafia might, and a newbie at the game also might, thinking that it'll help move the game along. I don't want things like that to happen this early in the game, especially after the disastrous Day 1 lynch in 807 which happened in the game I was playing in.

That's what the Newbie games are for - so that people can screw up and learn from their mistakes before joining a large, 30 person game where you're going to get some serious hate thrown at you for making a Noob mistake.

Your point against start for his aggressiveness is bad. In fact, this entire paragraph:

Mod: You messed up the vote count Iamusername is voting for BagSquad. Given that information, BagSquad is now at L-2. This is a situation for a mafia quicklynch. I find BagSquad suspicious, but not suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. I think startransmission is very suspicious as well. 2 of his 3 posts have been with a hot temper, very scum like. Vel-Rahn Koon, did you realize when making your vote that there were 2 votes already on BagSquad, not 1? As of right now, here is my final call:
Unvote
FoS: BagSquad, Startransmission, Jeromus

Is a bit off. You're attacking someone for being aggressive, which is not a scumtell. You're also slightly defending the scummiest, BY FAR, player in the game at this point. Why? If he's suspicious, why is he not suspicious enough for a lynch? Again, I'm not advocating lynching

right now

, and if that's also what you're trying to say you need to think about your word choices in the future, since your statement seems very black and white. I'm reading it as saying that you won't consider lynching him, yet you've placed him first in your FoS list.

I've always seen aggressiveness as being a bit scummy. It makes a person seem as if they're a scum trying to get the rest of the town to follow their vote and lynch a townie. Sure it can be helpful if you're a doctor questioning a known mafia but that's not the case here. Besides, doesn't anyone else thinking saying:

A no lynch is a fucking disaster. Those who argue for it are always firmly at the top of my scum list. Just saying. I'd go into it, but our illustrious IC would do a better job.

to someone who's brand new to the game is extremely harsh? There was no need to curse, it was still the first page of the game. But back to VRK's point. I wouldn't mind a lynch of BagSquad, I just don't think it needs to be right now. Like I said:

if he posts too sparsely in the game then I'll support your vote to lynch him

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

That's nothing. Try playing with Albert B. Rampage, or TSQ, or SensFan, or one of the other REALLY aggressive players. Some people just play like that, effectively making it a null tell. Just because it might offend your moral sensibilities doesn't make the person scum. This can also quickly lead to tunnel vision - simply because a person cusses, which you don't like, and now you're mentally painting them as scum in the back of your mind. The best players in this game look at every post objectively. Don't read into it something that may or may not be there. And besides, it's the internet


Elmo: If you need to ModKill me for fucking up I understand.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

EBWOP: Since I can moderate Newbie games I have an Edit button as well as the Quote button, in case anyone was wondering where their Edit button is

You don't have one, because it leads to screw ups like that. We don't allow Editing because your posts should be a record of everything you say, and if you catch yourself in a mistake and correct it before someone else sees it you're taking away a possible way for Town to catch Mafia. You guys may not have ever known anything, but rules are rules.

[bouchedufou]

I'll make this short- gotta go to school.

I agree that the outlook for bagsquad looks pretty bad, but for the sake of squeezing more info, I still think jeromus should at least post or get replaced.

Anyways, sorry about all the double posting.

[Elmo]

Elmo: If you need to ModKill me for fucking up I understand.

Nope!

In other news, Halidon has requested replacement.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

I'll make this short- gotta go to school.

I agree that the outlook for bagsquad looks pretty bad, but for the sake of squeezing more info, I still think jeromus should at least post or get replaced.

Anyways, sorry about all the double posting.

Remember that the game just started Friday, and most people don't post as much on the weekends. Maybe request a prod, but since it's only been 48 hours I doubt it'll get granted.

Note: Thanks Elmo for letting me continue - I'll be more careful!

[startransmission]

I've always seen aggressiveness as being a bit scummy. It makes a person seem as if they're a scum trying to get the rest of the town to follow their vote and lynch a townie. Sure it can be helpful if you're a doctor questioning a known mafia but that's not the case here. Besides, doesn't anyone else thinking saying:

A no lynch is a fucking disaster. Those who argue for it are always firmly at the top of my scum list. Just saying. I'd go into it, but our illustrious IC would do a better job.

to someone who's brand new to the game is extremely harsh? There was no need to curse, it was still the first page of the game.

I'm surprised that people feel I'm being overly aggressive. Regarding the expletive used in my post regarding the no-lynch- I apologize. I'm prone to some salty language once in a while, but I do try to reign that kind of thing in. It is after all a family site. I was merely expressing my distaste for a no lynch, and any discussion of the possibility. I was in no way trying to belittle the person who brought it up.

In my opinion being aggressive is very pro-town. It shakes things up, and draws reactions out of people, often valuable reactions. Anything that keeps emotions charged and discussion rolling is in the towns favor, which goes back to why lurking can in turn be so detrimental for town. I do draw a line when it comes to bullying, intimidation, and insults. These things serve nobody, and when I see it happen I'm suspicious of the person responsible. For one it's not civil, and those tactics can be used to create a stigma regarding questioning the opinions and tactics of the person responsible. So in short- if it seems that I make a post in high temper (which I don't think I really have) take it with a grain of salt. But you can be assured that I will never be rude to people just for the sake of it.

All that said, if you think I'm bad- you're in for a rude awakening in future games. I'm a kitten compared to some others I've played with.

Other than that I have little to say at the moment. BagSquad is still my focus, and I wait with baited breath to read his response to the accusations against him.

Also, going camping... so

VLA for the next 36 hours

[jeromus]

AWW SHIT!
First of all, I'd like to explain my absence - My laptop charger decided to shit itself and I've only now managed to get onto a computer - I'm terribly sorry, I hate lurkers as much as any, my last game featured...I think it was 4 of them, by the end of it.
Ahhh, Mafia, how I missed thee - Okay, I'm beginning to scowl at BagSquad as well, he's not making much sense at all, but Startrannie (Yes, I insist upon calling you this) is acting a lot like a guy in my last game, who turned out to be scum - Not exactly a scumtell, but I think a little pressure can hardly hurt

Startransmission

Irrelevant stuff -

Crazy Pianist - I agree, pianos are GORGEOUS, care to tune mine? Or at the very least lend me a tuning fork?

Startrannie - What is a ranmission and why are we starting it?

Or is it a stellar transmission?

[jeromus]

EBWOP

VOTE -Startransmission

The tags aren't all that useful without the ACTUAL vote...

[startransmission]

Startrannie (Yes, I insist upon calling you this) is acting a lot like a guy in my last game, who turned out to be scum - Not exactly a scumtell, but I think a little pressure can hardly hurt

Startransmission

Startrannie - What is a ranmission and why are we starting it? Or is it a stellar transmission?

It's startransmission. But call me whatever is easy for you.

If you can give me something specific about my posts that bothers you I will be happy to address your concerns.

Also, thanks to the magic of the modern internet I am able to access it even in the middle of nowhere, in front of a nice campfire. So disregard my earlier VLA.

[jeromus]

You act overly critical, as I said, it's got several leagues to travel before it meets a monk who trains it in the art of being a scumtell, but it bothers me how alike it is to the game I just played.
More thinking aloud than accusing. The nature I see is not hot tempered, as everyone else says. so much as snarky...

[BagSquad]

jesus christ you people