Mini 833 - Empire at War(The game is over?)

[Starbuck]

Mod: Please prod Jebus as he has yet to post anything.

ROFL @ me. I posted the above in my Magic the Gathering: Parallel Universe game by accident instead of posting it here.

[Kreriov]

What would be even funnier is if you misspelled Jebus as Jesus in that other thread...

[Seraphim]

Jebus has been prodded. Oddly enough, I already posted this but it got deleted due to the server burping. Oh well.

Vote count soon.

[BloodCovenent]

Will read later today, hopefully, if I have time before Inglorius Basterds. I want to read Jebus in iso.

good luck with that.

[dothefandango]

Wow, alot of nonsense over a silly post. I'm gonna take it for what it is and have it be first day anxiety. With that said, coming out and claiming you are a miller is an easy way to avoid detection if a cop were to land on you. But if you think about it, it doesn't really help you until the second round of investigations. I question that move for now, and

FoS Rest

.

[Seraphim]

I could tell...there were some shifty people in our little group. Lemme tell you, I could smell the fear in the air. Unless that was the back-upped toilet. Which I suppose is possible...

Vote Count:

Starbuck(0)

-

Sajin(1)

- MacavityLock

dothefandango(0)

-

Kdub(0)

-

Santos(0)

-

Kreriov(0)

-

Jebus(2)

- Starbuck, Kreriov

zwetschenwasser(1)

- Santos

BloodCovenent(1)

- zwetschenwasser

MacavityLock(1)

- Sajin

xRECKONERx(1)

- BloodCovenent

RestFermata(0)

-

Not Voting(5)

- dothefandango, Jebus, xRECKONERx, RestFermata, Kdub

7 to Lynch
Deadline: 31/8/09

[Jebus]

ohi, I didn't even realize this was open yet. It was closed for like, 5 days after I got my PM.

Will post, hold on. For the moment,

Vote: Starbuck

[BloodCovenent]

ohi, I didn't even realize this was open yet. It was closed for like, 5 days after I got my PM.

Will post, hold on. For the moment,

Vote: Starbuck

[xRECKONERx]

So uh.

Jebus can re-read and figure out he wants to vote Starbuck, but can't even post any reasons? Not even a snippet of his thoughts?

Yeah.

Vote: Jebus

.

[Starbuck]

ohi, I didn't even realize this was open yet. It was closed for like, 5 days after I got my PM.

Will post, hold on. For the moment,

Vote: Starbuck

Watched Topics ftw?


So you jump in and vote me because I noticed your absence?


Some reasons would be nice, kthnxbai!

[RestFermata]

Claiming miller Day 1 is an accepted, no,

encouraged

miller strategy. I don't see anything wrong with the fact that he claimed now, to be honest. I buy the fact that he was unsure during the RVS, at least for now. Have you heard that this is standard miller play, dothefandango, or do you just disagree with the practice?

[MacavityLock]

I think xRx's not realizing that Jebus hadn't posted yet is suspicious. I don't mind the miller claim, though I'll be interested to see if Sajin elaborates on his question. I'm withholding judgment on Jebus until he posts something with content.

[Santos]

I apologize for the inactivity, I will post tomorrow.

[dothefandango]

Have you heard that this is standard miller play, dothefandango, or do you just disagree with the practice?

I actually hadn't. I understand where he is coming from, considering that if he were to come up as scum on a cop check before he told us that I would not believe him anyhow, but mostly because if he says that now, a cop that investigates him and sees scum might actually be seeing scum.

[RestFermata]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7461

Some people cite some pretty circular logic:

Scum never claim miller because claiming miller always gets them lynched. But if scum never claim miller, why would we lynch them? Yet, if we don't usually lynch claimed millers, why don't scum claim miller? And so on and so forth.

But still, I think it's probably the best idea if you really are a pro-town miller. I don't know if I would even think of doing that D1 as scum.

[Kdub]

ohi, I didn't even realize this was open yet. It was closed for like, 5 days after I got my PM.

Will post, hold on. For the moment,

Vote: Starbuck

OMGUS vote?

I still think a better strategy for millers is to not claim unless they think they are likely to be investigated, but I believe BC.

[Starbuck]

My original vote on Jebus was just RVS, but I'm rather suspicious due to his vote on me with no reasoning. So my vote will be staying for the time being.

[Jebus]

Note- No need to read some of the longer quotes, I just didn't clip them so it was clear what I was referring to.

Really, all you need to read is my own comments.

Also, this was written chronologically (as I read).

RVS time!

Vote:Jebus

Also please note that Jebus has still not entered the game.

Oh yeah, I totally agree with Starbuck about Jebus.

And hit submit before doing this...

Unvote

[bVote: ]Jebus[/b]

Sorry for the multi-posts

DAMMIT!

Vote: Jebus

Will read later today, hopefully, if I have time before Inglorius Basterds. I want to read Jebus in iso.

That is sort of the point. There is no Jebus to read in ISO!

Mod: Please prod Jebus as he has yet to post anything.

OMGUS!

I often use previous game stuff during RVs.

Stop bleeding on me! D:

Well, that would be fine except since Sajin was scum in your last game, does that not make it much more likely he is not in this one?

No -

unvote, Vote: Kreriov

- roles are random. RANDOM. It's like taking a card out of a deck and then replacing it. No matter how many times you do it, the chance of pulling the Ace of Spades is still 1/52.

Really. Why? Because I am poking fun at Macavity or for some other reason? Just saying it bugs you is not enough.

I just don't like the second sentence. And I was just writing down what was on my mind.

Well, no offense, but that is not enough. You need to give reasons. It just bugs you really is not enough. Its wishy-washy and an easy out. It is a formless accusation with no substance, the type of thing scum like to use or to seize on. Note I am not calling you scummy or even saying I think you are scum by saying it. If you really do have a problem with it, you need to express it. Hell, I will even help if you could give me an idea of what you didn't like about that sentence. (Other than the mathematical incorrectness of the idea.)

@Reckoner - Huh? Not a random vote. Well, then you are DEFINITELY manufacturing a reason for a vote. There is absolutely nothing scummy in that sentence nor in anything else I have said. Either you have not bothered to read the context leading up to it or you are just trying to stir the pot, hopefully to spur discussion. Are you doing this to start real discussion? If not, it is a scum move and should be seen in that light. Whether you are trying to start discussion or not, I still have to point out you fail to say WHAT logic if faulty, much less why. Using pejorative terms like 'obviously faulty' without support is pure scum. As for putting something in the form of a question, THAT is very townish. Trying to get someone to talk by asking them a question about THEIR action is definitely town! So, as a follow up, why are you trying to misrepresent townish actions as otherwise?

For the record, that is two questions for Reckoner. By my count he has also now commited three scummy actions. (1) He fails to support his position, (2) he tries to make a townish move seem bad, and (3) his entire post is a declarative statement after no analysis whatsoever. Its early though and everyone makes mistakes, so do not jump all over him for it just yet. Let him answer.

This seems over-defensive to me. I understand how it'd've been a joke to start, but he seems far too defensive for just one vote.

Also, I have played with krer 3 times (this makes 4) and have been scum twice. He had me pegged as scum both times.

Why is this relevant at all?

It is not really all that bad if some people take my question the wrong way. It was intended to generate discussion and it has succeeded. What I do care about is the reactions it received. When people use weak excuses to vote, that is a sign of scum. Blood basically said it bugged him but with no reasoning as to why. He did not vote at that time, however, so ok. I challenged him to support his statement. He didn't really know, but is talking, so really a null tell.

Then we get Reckoner. He calls the logic faulty, but fails to explain why and simply says asking a question is scummy then votes. Talk about a weak vote! His most recent post is even worse! OF COURSE the math in my question was wrong, UNLESS you take into account its context. It was in direct reply to MacavityLock voting Sajin because Sajin was scum in the last game. The POINT of the question is to illustrate that voting for someone because they were scum in the last game has no bearing on whether or not they are scum in this game. it doesn't matter if its a 'random' vote. And using an ironic question to point this out, have a bit of fun, and maybe get discussion going is PERFECTLY townie! But somehow me that is scummy? Really? On what planet? So rather than actually try to challenge me or even just talk, Reckoner goes on full offense and simply throws out that pejorative phrase - 'faulty logic' with no explanation, says I am scummy, and votes. No support for his action, no real thought for his action. Just an excuse to cast suspicion and place a vote. When challenged, he is so quick to defend himself, he does not really even try to look at the context to see that my logic and reasoning in context is not only pertinent, but valid. Pure scum or overzealous and careless townie, I am not sure yet is the problem.

But even better is RestFerma. No, not every question is townie. But most are. Now that he has talked about my question in particular, I will say it is very townie. (Read the above paragraph. Even if the humor was a bit of an inside joke, the question was a direct logical progression from the conversation.)

So basically, RestFerma has been V/LA, comes back and sees I am heavily involved in a discussion. He uses the wiki to pull out something called a straw man argument which he admits DOES NOT apply to this instance, but being so official looking and sounding probably seems to make his argument stronger, so he includes that red herring. He then proceeds to say that if my question had been a statement is would have been scummy, therefor the question is scummy even though he thinks it really was a joke, and votes. Sure sounds to me like he is voting just to vote for someone. He is deliberately taking my question out of context. He does not even quote me correctly. I DID NOT SAY asking questions is townie. I said IN GENERAL asking questions is townie, fully acknowledging that some questions are designed to make people look bad. By completely ignoring the fact that my question is direct logical progression from MacavityLock's vote and reason for that vote, he has shown he is simply scum interested in getting a townie lynched however he can.

Hey RestFermia, when did you stop beating your wife?

Anyway, my usual technique for finding scum appears to be successful. I now have two people who have placed votes on me simply because they could with no real support for their positions who failed to take into account post context. Towniee can make that mistake, so the first one (Reckoner) doing so might be a mistaken townie. Piling on top of another doing this is pure scum just being opportunistic.

Unvote

Vote: RestFermia

Getting awful heated over getting two votes on page 2, eh?

What do you think of my idea that RestFermata is using the whole bruhaha surrounding this to cast an opportunistic vote?

This might not be directed at me, but it seemed like a typical page-2 earlywagon.

@Blood - I do not think I am obv town. I think I have ACTED townie, but I do think that means anyone should assume I am town. I want people to follow my logic, not blindly follow me. I did something that should be considered pro town. Both scum and town and do commit pro town acts. The fact that a pro town act was trying to be cast as not is what I want to draw attention to.

One cannot comment personally on where s/he stands (as scummy/pro-town) individually - that's something that can only be determined by others.

Also, this sounds to me like the 'I did this which is considered pro-town, so I look pro-town!'.

I agree with this, RestF's post was very scummy, however I think Reck's was worse. You called out reck, and his response was very scummy.

Unvote:
Vote: xRECKONERx

Do explain/quote/lead me to the posts you are talking about, please - I'm sorta lost here.

@Blood - I do not think I am obv town. I think I have ACTED townie, but I do think that means anyone should assume I am town. I want people to follow my logic, not blindly follow me. I did something that should be considered pro town. Both scum and town and do commit pro town acts. The fact that a pro town act was trying to be cast as not is what I want to draw attention to.

But that's such a stupid move to do. You're painting a target on your back for scum. Yes, it's all WIFOM, but still.

QFT

And at the same time, my paranoia is telling me this seems like coaching.

3. Non-Random Role Claim : Miller - cops, adjust your radar.

What? 0_o

@Blood Did you lose your ID badge?

I don't know how to answer this... I don't know if I ever had one?

What? 0_o

@RestFermata -

Wow, I should just print out your posts and take a red pen to them.

Ok, you are lying once again. I most certainly did not imply Sajin was more likely to be town or scum or anything at all. I asked McavityLock if HE though Sajin was more likely to be town. I didn't imply anything at all and your continued attempts to twist words just make you look more scummy.

Please do (at the bolded) - I'm interested to see this in a way where I know what you're referring to.

Vote: zwetschenwasser

for active lurking in post 40.

Zwet always posts like that, silly

Looking on that, he's got one hell of a meta to hide behind as a scum player xP

Kreriov is playing like he did as town in a game I modded. I think he is town now.

ohi - link please?

YOU'RE ARGUING ABOUT A JOKE POST YOU FOOLS

If a so claimed joke post has a scum tell or scum base should it be ignored? Remind me of this for my next scum game. When I screw up I am going to type "JOKE POST, just kidding about that guys" and they will all pronounce the slip as a null tell. Yep.

If it's on page 2, it's not really necessary to mull over it too much. It's just something to get discussion started, sir. By the way +1 at Zwet's post.

Kreriov is likely town btw based on meta.

Describe Kreriov's meta (personally, I hate metagaming - it makes it impossible to understand your thoughts if I've never played with that person before).

So uh.

Jebus can re-read and figure out he wants to vote Starbuck, but can't even post any reasons? Not even a snippet of his thoughts?

Yeah.

Vote: Jebus

.

ohi, I didn't even realize this was open yet. It was closed for like, 5 days after I got my PM.

Will post, hold on. For the moment,

Vote: Starbuck

Watched Topics ftw?

So you jump in and vote me because I noticed your absence?

Some reasons would be nice, kthnxbai!

My original vote on Jebus was just RVS, but I'm rather suspicious due to his vote on me with no reasoning. So my vote will be staying for the time being.

Hai, it was a random vote because it was my first post in the game - also OMGUS because Starbuck voted me in his/her first post.

[Jebus]

By the way, OMGUS: Krer, because you gave me so much to read >.<

[zwetschenwasser]

ohi, I didn't even realize this was open yet. It was closed for like, 5 days after I got my PM.

Will post, hold on. For the moment,

Vote: Starbuck

OMGUS vote?

I still think a better strategy for millers is to not claim unless they think they are likely to be investigated, but I believe BC.

seems like a random vote to me.

[BloodCovenent]

Jebus has redeemed himself.

Unvote:
Vote: Kreriov

I never thought of Kre's beginning post as overreaction, but reading them again according to your idea, they do like like it.

And as to your question towards me jebus, Reck's post, where I thought he acted scummy was here. Where as RestF's was here.

Although I think that Kre did well in defending him self on page two, I can see the OMGUS attitude, and over reaction.

[Jebus]

Jebus has redeemed himself.

I had something to redeem? -.-'''

Well, that should make up for the fact that this game got five pages in without me knowing it was open ^_^;

I never thought of Kre's beginning post as overreaction, but reading them again according to your idea, they do like like it.

Sounds like (piggybacking?) to me, sort of...?

And as to your question towards me jebus, Reck's post, where I thought he acted scummy was here. Where as RestF's was here.

'kay thanks.

For the first one, Reck blew things up, but kept them in proportion. Since it was page two, I'm not sure how it was scummy (do explain).

As for RestFermata, you'll have to explain why that one was scummy as well...

[xRECKONERx]

Huh.

Unvote

. I just don't think Jebus is scum after that post.
I would post more content but I've gotta drive an hour back home now. (If anyone cares, I went and saw

Basterds

last night, didn't get home till 4am, crashed at a friend's apartment, went to class, saw my grandpa in the hospital, then went back to my friend's apartment and crashed. Now I'm leaving to go to my real home...)

Sorry, I know it's inconvenient. Also, @people vote Kre now because of the post I got blasted out of the water for posting on, what suddenly changed your mind as opposed to when I pointed it out?

[Sajin]

Huh.

Unvote

. I just don't think Jebus is scum after that post.
I would post more content but I've gotta drive an hour back home now. (If anyone cares, I went and saw

Basterds

last night, didn't get home till 4am, crashed at a friend's apartment, went to class, saw my grandpa in the hospital, then went back to my friend's apartment and crashed. Now I'm leaving to go to my real home...)

Sorry, I know it's inconvenient. Also, @people vote Kre now because of the post I got blasted out of the water for posting on, what suddenly changed your mind as opposed to when I pointed it out?

Why are you asking people to vote someone your not voting yourself?

Also

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1300

This is where I think Kreriovs meta means he is town jeebus. He is counterattacking as before. I would rather not state too much about it to use in future games. But you can decide if he is acting similarly or not.

[xRECKONERx]

Should be: @people *voting* Kre now