Mini 837 - Stratego Mafia! (Game Over!)

[Hoopla]

Does anyone think it's worthwhile talking about the set-up at this stage? If anyone here isn't familiar with the rankings, definitely check it out now. I have a few thoughts about the way roles could possibly interact and what we could expect, but if others deem it a moot topic, then we can skip it and just go straight to lynching scum.

In other news;

Vote: ortolan

[Gorrad]

Cool! I outed scum before the game was fully confirmed.

No one else should talk about this until charter responds. Thanks.

Well, Sajin seems pretty dang convinced. Let's test this theory.

Vote: Gorrad

Now, Sajin, explain to me why my vote is justified.

[Sajin]

vote: Gorrad

You are obvious scum. I will be waiting 72 hours before I fully explain this (should be obvious why).

[Sajin]

lol simul post.

[Gorrad]

Sajin, allow me a chance to counter your argument before you give it, saving us three days.

I was given a number and a rank. The number assigned to the rank was different here than the number assigned to said rank in my game. Yes, I have them memorized, that's how often I've played. I asked for clarification to make sure that it was the numbers that were different and not the ranks.

[Hoopla]

For what it's worth, I don't think we should talk about the possibility of having/not having numbers in our role PM's. You'll note that the Spy, bombs and the flag aren't assigned number values on that system.

[Sajin]

I am still not going to out my case on you until scum can no longer nighttalk. Sorry. You should also wait on claiming till then. It probably involves me claiming as well.

[Gorrad]

Yeah, Hoopla, and I'd be a bloody IDIOT if I claimed Spy, Bomb, or Flag.

And Sajin, I have no intention of claiming today, as I have yet to see why my vote is justified. But, in case it helps, my breadcrumb for my role is Sept. 12th.

Oh, and I think that while you're full of it, you're probably town. Just...you know, town that doesn't know what they're talking about.

[ElectricBadger]

Vote Sajin

A bit too eager for role claiming, when that's probably been accounted for in the game, and why bring this all up without being willing to talk about it yet?

[Sajin]

Very willing. Its just not optimal. Did you read the rules section? Or are you just wanting me to spill my information in the next few days?

[dramonic]

Yeah, Hoopla, and I'd be a bloody IDIOT if I claimed Spy, Bomb, or Flag.

What's to say Spy, Bomb or Flag aren't town roles? You're pretty well informed for a town role.

FOS:Gorrad

Also in the version I played spy was 1 <<

[ortolan]

I'm not sure what the purpose of "breadcrumbing" then drawing attention to the breadcrumb is supposed to serve Gorrad, especially when I don't see you as having done anything scummy. Unless Sajin surprises me I think he just completely misunderstood what you meant in your opening post.

More importantly, consider the following argument:

P1: Kast was scum in Poof! Mafia, and won
P2: Kast was scum in Notre Dame Mafia, and won
P3: Kast was scum in MKM2 Mafia, and won

- Kast is always scum when he plays with me (and thus far, always wins, grr)
- Kast is scum this game

Vote: Kast

[ortolan]

btw just to get on record; dramonic's 35 is the scummiest thing I've seen in the game so far but I needed to get that Kast vote off my chest

[dramonic]

I fail to see what's scummy about my post. I think it's scummier Gorrad is agaisnt claiming three specific roles, in a game where there are most probably three mafia members.

[ElectricBadger]

btw just to get on record; dramonic's 35 is the scummiest thing I've seen in the game so far but I needed to get that Kast vote off my chest

Why is it scummy? Is there an inherent reason any particular must be town or mafia? I'm inclined to agree with him, actually - I think revealing all our roles will only give the scum better information to kill us and an excellent opportunity to feed misinformation to lead to mislynches. The entire strategy of the namesake game was in the concealed numbers of the pieces, and I suspect the same situation may exist here.

Unless you have a good reason why certain numbers/ranks would have to be town or mafia?

[Hoopla]

btw just to get on record; dramonic's 35 is the scummiest thing I've seen in the game so far but I needed to get that Kast vote off my chest

How exactly? The garbage Sajin is spewing is the only thing of note so far.

[Synx]

Does anyone think it's worthwhile talking about the set-up at this stage?

No, this is super scummy, let's focus on scumhunting instead of setup analysis at this point.

You are obvious scum. I will be waiting 72 hours before I fully explain this (should be obvious why).

Honestly, your case sucks. How can anyone be obvious scum, the game just started.

[ortolan]

ElectricBadger I don't understand what provoked that post. You are answering the question of "why it is a bad idea to mass-claim". I agree it is a bad idea to mass-claim, but I never brought up the idea, nor did dramonic, nor did Gorrad. I simply don't see what you're responding to.

Now, the reason dramonic's 35 is scummy: FoSes are always scummy, unless the person is already voting someone they are sure they want lynched, and the FoSee is a secondary target.

dramonic's previous vote was a random vote on Hoops. Gorrad had two votes. He announced suspicion of Gorrad, but only FoSed him, rather than voted him. This is inexplicable, as he should only be FoSing someone if his intends his actual vote seriously (and more seriously than on the person he is FoSing). But he can't have done, because his vote on Hoops was purely random. I also see him as being wary of reaching the 3 votes mark on Gorrad (which is something people often freak out about unnecessarily). For reference I acquired this tell when I used FoS as newbie scum when I didn't have a vote out, which roflcopter promptly told me stands for "friend of scum", so it is validated by experience.

The other reason the post is scummy is that he jumped to the conclusion Gorrad was implying Spy, Bomb or Flag aren't town roles; there is no evidence of this, he just said he would be stupid to.

So, dramonic, why did you FoS Gorrad instead of voting him?

Gorrad, why did you breadcrumb prematurely? Also why would you be silly to claim Spy, Bomb or Flag?

and to make sure I'm not accused of hypocrisy

Unvote
Vote: dramonic

[Hoopla]

I actually like that scumtell ortolan has explained, and recall seeing other similar examples in a couple of my games. It isn't universal though, and I can think of plenty of times where you don't always vote for the scummiest action.

I think when some players lay down a random vote, they feel like their next one has to be serious and justified by a case, and therefore may not vote a slight scumtell.

[Kast]

Confirm

General Stratego Stuff:
I normally play with a set where 10 is the highest number (although the spy can kill the marshall). I also normally play with the rule where attackers win and don't die on a tie. I also like the rule where attacker reveals his piece and defender only reveals if he lost (or if it is a scout).

Mafia Specific:
-I don't think Gorrad's question necessarily reveals anything about his game specific role. I dislike Sajin's implication that it does so as it feels like he is fishing for Gorrad to confirm or deny (as well as possibly get other players to share whether numbers will affect their roles)

Similarly, I dislike dramonic's question as phrased, although I can easily see that as confused town following the mod statement.

From public game rules information, numbers have no known effect. Private roles may indicate otherwise, but I strongly doubt that getting a majority or universal claim from players to confirm or deny this is beneficial to the town at this point in time.

[Kast]

Ugh, didn't see page 2.

I dislike that Gorrad claimed non-spy, non-bomb, non-flag.

-In normal games, the object is to capture the flag. This could easily be an objective for mafia or a third party.

Normally the Spy is not assigned a numerical value on his piece, although he is treated as the lowest value (1 in most sets and 10 in the backwards sets).

[Vaya]

Kast, could you explain what bothers you about Gorrad claiming not spy, bomb, or flag? I don't know about spy or bomb, but I agree with him that flag would probably be a stupid claim to make, even if you really were one, for the reason you stated.

I agree that dramonic's hesitance to vote Gorrad seems suspicious.

Vote: dramonic

[dramonic]

I'm not a fan of quick early-wagons and I don't have a decent case (since I can't find scum before post 13 of a game). I'm not going to vote without at least the latter <<

[Hoopla]

Unvote, vote: dramonic

[Vaya]

Why don't you like early wagons? You didn't have a problem random voting Hoopla without a case against her, so if you're suspicious of Gorrad, I don't see why you don't vote him.