Mini 872: Mafia in Belgrove - That's All Folks

[Netopalis]

I'm not sure that your failure to participate in the RVS does you Justice, Owen.

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: U.N. Owen.

[Gyro]

Just a side note, as it's a personal pet peeve of mine...Kikuchyo didn't choose to

lynch

guy0, he chose to

vote for

guy0.

I actually noticed the inconsistency of using both terms in my post but decided not to edit.

It's really a who gives a shit type of thing.

[crypto]

Wagon on Owen, please.

[Mr.Jester]

vote: Walrus Helmet

Because I am the Walrus.

P.S Goo goo ga joob.

[Ectomancer]

Wagon on Owen, please.

He deserves one.

vote Owen

[walrus helmet]

vote: Walrus Helmet

Because I am the Walrus.

P.S Goo goo ga joob.

I love the Beatles but my username has nothing to do with the song, really.

Just a side note, as it's a personal pet peeve of mine...Kikuchyo didn't choose to lynch guy0, he chose to vote for guy0.

Personally I like 'vote' better simply because of what do you say when you retract your ballot? Unlynch?

Speaking of which

Unvote

.

Also yeah, Owen that was a really weird opening post.

[Netopalis]

Well, to explain Owen's post, there's a character in the Agatha Christie novel named U.N. Owen who talks much like he does....

[JereIC]

Well, to explain Owen's post, there's a character in the Agatha Christie novel named U.N. Owen who talks much like he does....

That makes more sense. I'm guessing that he's doing it for fun (personally speaking, I once spent a month writing emails to friends in the style of John Hodgman's blog "Good Evening") but it could be some sort of alt/anti-meta strategy (basically assuming a new personality for each game). Either way, it's a null tell at the moment.

UN, do you intend to post anything out of character?[/url]

[JereIC]

Also, I'll be on V/LA from October 30th to November 2nd.

[Faraday]

Kikuchiyo (2) [Netopalis, Gyro]
guy0 (1) [Kikuchiyo,]
Darkstrike_11 (2) (JereIC, Malpascp]
U.N. Owen (2)[Crypto, Ectomancer]
walrus helmet (1) [Me.Jester]


Not voting: [guy0, Darkstrike_11, U.N. Owen , Walrus Helmet]

Please point out any mistakes you see

JereIC's V/La has been noted.

guy0 has untill this evening to post before I begin looking for a replacement.

[Netopalis]

Sorry, meant to

Unvote: Kikuchiyo

[Darkstrike_11]

Actually, random voting is meant to be a pro-town action. By random voting each player "randomly" commits to the "lynch" of another player. By doing so we all begin our "voting record" which later becomes one of the most tangible pieces of evidence that exists in the game of mafia. Whether or not the random voting stage is useful depends on many factors, however, scum have been known to give away partners or help confirm townies in the RVS in many games. Sometimes inexperienced or even experienced mafia will try to code messages in the RVS and later, after a confirmed scum flip, this information can prove to be invaluable. It is considered anti-town to not participate as if you later flip scum it leaves us that much less information to investigate. Townies should always submit to investigative processes. Does that make sense? That is at least how I have come to understand it.

But that is the very reason why the RVS is useless. There is no commitment to the lynch of another player. The scum know this, the town know this. The usual excuse for random bandwagons is because it “induces scumtells”. However in my experience it rarely does, since the scum KNOW that there isn’t real intent to lynch in a random vote. Its just randomly picking someone. (I am aware that it is fairly standard for the scum to play tricks in the RVS though). A random vote cannot be a tangible piece of evidence, for the intention to lynch was not wholeheartedly there. As for codes, I find RVS votes always end up just as pieces of WIFOM. How can anyone know if someone is giving a code or not until they say so?

I agree that everyone should submit to investigative processes, just not random voting.

If you do not approve of the RVS and instead prefer your described method of asking questions, why did you not propose it and instead allow the game to progress to the utterly predictable RVS?

This is your attempt at avoiding an RVS?

Hi Everyone!

I knew that someone would ask me to vote, then ask for an alternative. It generated discussion. It generated reactions. Both are useful. For instance your reaction tells me that you are aggressive in investigating people (an attribute I find very pro-town) and yet you are quick to find things which make your subject look as bad as possible (a less pro-town attribute)

Darkstrike's dislike of RVS is well documented. Case closed. I support lynching him for something else, though.

Something else?
Do tell

Checking through his previous games, I only found two in which he expressed an interest in doing the question route - Newbie 833 and Mini 834. Prior to that he did RVS, but got the question idea from Thesp in Newbie 792. I didn't see any posts where he expressed a dislike of RVS. And ecto's point remains - if he's a proponent of asking questions instead of RVS, why didn't he ask some questions?

Yeah Thesp inducted me in the way of questions and since then I have done so in every game. By the way I like your commitment to look through previous games, I can never find the motivation to do so!

Wagon on Owen, please.

Ahem….*in keira knightley’s voice* WHAT ARE THE CHARGES?

Seriously, reasons for why we should wagon?

Oooh questions, I nearly forgot. Although sufficient discussion has already been generated, could everyone answer these questions please?

1. How many games of mafia have you played?
2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles?
3. What is your favourite power role to have?
4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game?

[kikuchiyo]

Darkstrike: Everyone has an opinion, I guess my issue with yours is that you simultaneously discredit the RVS while admitting that "it is fairly standard for the scum to play tricks in the RVS". It seems as though this argument may end up being circular, but it just seems a bit of a contradiction. Almost as if you are trying to stick to your guns, but agree with me as well. I don't think you can have it both ways. Also, my point is that the RVS is generally helpful in hindsight(after a flip). Not in and of itself.

Walrus Helmet post 31: Why the unvote?

1. How many games of mafia have you played?
2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles?
3. What is your favourite power role to have?
4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game?

1. Off the top of my head I would say about a half a dozen, with a few ongoing.
2. Town. I find it more challenging.
3. I have only had two in past games. Neither was much fun. Also, I find this question to be extremely scummy. Information gathered from answers to such a question may help scum to extrapolate which players currently possess power roles.
4. Null tell so far.

Vote: Darkstrike_11

for question 3. I believe the term is "rolefishing".

[walrus helmet]

Say what you will about the RVS, I thought it was worthless, but in my previous game it led us to lynching mafia on day 1, so it was certainly valid there. Obviously if scum is playing intelligently then it won't reveal anything, and we shouldn't give too much emphasis on it, but it's another opportunity for scum to make mistakes out themselves. There's no reason you can't randomly vote AND ask questions.

1. How many games of mafia have you played?
2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles?
3. What is your favourite power role to have?
4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game?

This is my third game of mafia both on this site and in total. I've only played town so I guess that wins by default. I've never had a power role. I'm fairly certain crypto wasn't entirely serious. Even if he was, Owen's weird posting style isn't very pro-town.

Walrus Helmet post 31: Why the unvote?

Demonstrating my preferred style of unvoting.

[Netopalis]

1. How many games of mafia have you played? - On this site, 4. I've played a lot of games on other sites, but I don't have an exact number.

2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles? It really depends on the game, honestly. In some games, I really enjoy the investigative process of trying to ferret out the scum....and in other games, I really enjoy playing against the odds. It largely depends on who else is on my team, be it town or scum.

3. What is your favourite power role to have? Cop. Vigilante is prone to hurting the town more than it helps, a doctor's usefulness is spotty at best and most other roles are so rare to have that it really doesn't merit a discussion.

4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game?
I think he was probably joking, and I'm lax to seriously attack someone over a joke.

[Ectomancer]

Maybe its because NaNoWriMo is making me hyper aware of literary ploys that the grandiosity of Darkstrike's reply induced a mental groan as I read it. It's like pandering laced with haughtiness, and then at the end, "Oh yes, my questions, you may answer them". Ha

30ish, neither, none, wagons R good

[Netopalis]

For the record, I think it's a really bad idea to lynch U N Owen just because he talks funny. That may just be the worst reason for a lynch I've heard.

[Faraday]

afatchic replaces guy0 effective immediately, thanks very much!

[Darkstrike_11]

Darkstrike: Everyone has an opinion, I guess my issue with yours is that you simultaneously discredit the RVS while admitting that "it is fairly standard for the scum to play tricks in the RVS". It seems as though this argument may end up being circular, but it just seems a bit of a contradiction. Almost as if you are trying to stick to your guns, but agree with me as well. I don't think you can have it both ways. Also, my point is that the RVS is generally helpful in hindsight(after a flip). Not in and of itself.

I say the scum play tricks, as in they will vote for each other or something, but I still discredit the RVS. As in there is little to no chance of finding these “tricks” so the RVS doesn’t tell us anything. Even after a flip the RVS can’t really give good evidence. I’m not really being hypocritical here, so don’t paint me as such please
Like you said everyone has an opinion, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

Also, I find this question to be extremely scummy. Information gathered from answers to such a question may help scum to extrapolate which players currently possess power roles.

Wow. I didn’t think that it could be seen this way. The intent wasn’t scummy, I can say that. I’m trying to gauge how people play and how they react to say, certain questions.

I think he was probably joking, and I'm lax to seriously attack someone over a joke.

Ahh I didn’t see that as a joke. I haven’t played with crypto before, so I didn’t recognise this!

Maybe its because NaNoWriMo is making me hyper aware of literary ploys that the grandiosity of Darkstrike's reply induced a mental groan as I read it. It's like pandering laced with haughtiness, and then at the end, "Oh yes, my questions, you may answer them". Ha

Wow. That’s really nice of you… are you always this welcoming and nice? I don’t think I said ‘you may answer them’ in such a patronising way. Nor did I mean for my post to be grandiose. Don’t just insult how I write, its not relevant to the game and it just hurts feelings.


I also just realised that I haven't answered my own questions!
1. About 5 or 6
2. I by far prefer mafia roles
3. I've never had a power role before, I guess it would be cool to be a cop and try to make the town aware of your investigations without revealing your role.
4. I didn't really like it, it seemed cold and sudden, without reasoning.

There we go, hope that wasn't too grandiose for all of you.

[Ectomancer]

Ahh the wounded feelings now.

Your continued elaboration on the virtues or otherwise of an RVS is mere fluff.

This comment is just a face saver:

I knew that someone would ask me to vote, then ask for an alternative. It generated discussion. It generated reactions. Both are useful.

How about, "I forgot", or "I hadn't had a chance to ask them yet" instead of lame excuses to make yourself look better?

Now, I can feel your feelings being hurt, so don't run off. Its not personal. My criticism has nothing to do with the style, its substance. The bottom line is, I need you telling a straight truth, not worrying about whether you look good or not. It means if you make a mistake, own up to it. Don't waste space trying to save face.


@crypto - if you see what I see would you believe Netapolis's offered defense to be pro-town or covering?

[crypto]

Something else?
Do tell

I was joking.

Ahem….*in keira knightley’s voice* WHAT ARE THE CHARGES?

Seriously, reasons for why we should wagon?

1. How many games of mafia have you played?

Five finished games, two ongoing. And then this one.

2. Do you prefer Mafia or Town roles?

In theory? Town. But I have yet to play as scum.

3. What is your favourite power role to have?

Power roles suck. VT all the way. I'd love to have day vigilante or lie detector, though.

4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game

It's a glowing triumph.

---

a doctor's usefulness is spotty at best

No. Doc excels at playing mind games with scum at night. It's risky, but claim-related gambits have the potential to be ridiculously effective.

Demonstrating my preferred style of unvoting.

Why did you feel the need to do that?

---

My vote landed on Owen because he smoothly skirted RVS, and because cracking alignment-related jokes tend to be extremely lame and suspicious as far as I'm concerned.

Ecto, I think the trajectory of Netapolis's comments on Owen and his wagon is blindingly suspicious (except that he seems like a relatively new player), but I don't know why Neta-scum would jump to defending his scum buddy so quickly. I'm not sure we're seeing the same thing.

Wow. I didn’t think that it could be seen this way. The intent wasn’t scummy, I can say that. I’m trying to gauge how people play and how they react to say, certain questions.

3. I've never had a power role before, I guess it would be cool to be a cop and try to make the town aware of your investigations without revealing your role.

/facepalm

Ahh I didn’t see that as a joke. I haven’t played with crypto before, so I didn’t recognise this!

4. I didn't really like it, it seemed cold and sudden, without reasoning.

So you change your mind and say I was joking (I wasn't, by the way), but then pin "cold," "sudden," and "without reasoning" on me?

[Darkstrike_11]

Ahh the wounded feelings now.

please stop being so mean

Your continued elaboration on the virtues or otherwise of an RVS is mere fluff.

This comment is just a face saver:

I knew that someone would ask me to vote, then ask for an alternative. It generated discussion. It generated reactions. Both are useful.

How about, "I forgot", or "I hadn't had a chance to ask them yet" instead of lame excuses to make yourself look better?

Now, I can feel your feelings being hurt, so don't run off. Its not personal. My criticism has nothing to do with the style, its substance. The bottom line is, I need you telling a straight truth, not worrying about whether you look good or not. It means if you make a mistake, own up to it. Don't waste space trying to save face.


@crypto - if you see what I see would you believe Netapolis's offered defense to be pro-town or covering?

Your criticsim is all style. Your earlier comment was essentially "wow this guy is a pompous twat". You didn't focus on what I said, but how I said it.

Your second criticism is completely untrue. I knew when I wrote my first post that people would ask for a random vote, I knew that they would ask for an alternative method when I refused. I'm not wasting space, but telling the truth.

[Darkstrike_11]

4. What is your opinion on crypto’s call for a wagon this early in the game

It's a glowing triumph.

this made me giggle

Ahh I didn’t see that as a joke. I haven’t played with crypto before, so I didn’t recognise this!

4. I didn't really like it, it seemed cold and sudden, without reasoning.

So you change your mind and say I was joking (I wasn't, by the way), but then pin "cold," "sudden," and "without reasoning" on me?

[/quote]

I thought it was cold sudden and without reasoning, hence I wrote "seemed". However other people told me it was a joke, so I henceforth took it to be so. My answer to question 4 was my own view of the comment, not others view.

[crypto]

Then why didn't you update your view? We don't care about what it "seemed" to be. We care about what you think it is

now

.