Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[VP Baltar]

There's only one person who would give me the raspberry... LONE STARR!

I'll admit, I had to look that reference up. I don't think I've seen that movie for at least a decade and a half.

d3x's vote is quite silly (as is the subsequent bandwagon). I don't see what he is getting at as being scummy behaviour from nacho. What differentiates him from just being generally antagonist toward your questioning?

[Benmage]

Which bandwagon VPB?

[Sotty7]

@Sotty p66- I think that being defensive by itself is not neccessarily a ScumTell, just something to watch out for.

If it's not a scum tell why do you need to watch out for it? Why was that part of the reasons you voted him?

@Sotty p68- I don't have a problem with Nacho's Vote, can you show me where I 'blew it up'?

You blew it up in the case that you questioned him on it which is all in your right I suppose. However the intensity of your questioning just didn't seem to fit the crime in my eyes. You asked him a series of questions and then proclaimed him defensive as if that means anything. It all feels false to me, I don't see a townie reacting to nacho's vote like that.

[VP Baltar]

Which bandwagon VPB?

The person d3x is voting, ie nachomamma8.

[Zilla]

Aww, nobody even told me this started, and the first mention of me is that I'm replaced?

/sad panda.

[VP Baltar]

Zilla!

mega sad face

I didn't even know you were still on the site.

[Benmage]

Which bandwagon VPB?

The person d3x is voting, ie nachomamma8.

Ohh well.. the bandwagon i think stemmed from porks post 61, not d3x's pov.

[VP Baltar]

Well, see, no. It started with an argument between d3x and nm8 and then he voted him in post 47.

Though I would agree that people (you) started to actively slide onboard after Ecto's post 61.

There a reason you got so much of that wrong considering you're in support of the wagon?

[Benmage]

There a reason you got so much of that wrong considering you're in support of the wagon?

Mustve forgotten about dc3's vote or something but liked post 61's position.. There has yet to be a vote count =/.

[VP Baltar]

You also thought post 61 was by porkchop express.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Ectomancer

QUIT TRYING TO DIRECT THE TOWN

Hey! A serious vote! Yay!

Because I don't feel like being serious right now.

Why do you intend you interrogate me so thoroughly?

Or not a serious vote....errmm ok? "Interrogate so thoroughly?" I wouldn't call one question an interrogation.

Actually, Id expect you to react to my vote as you have everyone else's, so, yes. That was what I was expecting.

Considering everyone else's Votes were very clearly RVS, I find this very interesting. I asked you which it was due to the ambiguity of it. With you getting defensive and dodging for a third time, I'm getting a very bad feeling about you.

UnVote/Vote:Nm8

Why wasn't my vote clearly RVS/not RVS?

Because I wasn't clearly directing the town, it could have been sarcasm or some inside joke of yours. Who knows? You then confound the point by saying "Because I don't feel like being serious right now."
Oh ok, so that was not serious then?

The beginning of these games is always so freaking stupid and boring because nobody knows who to vote for and everybody tries to make mountains out of molehills just so that they can feel good about themselves and their pointless votes. How about we just bypass all of the bullshit and lynch the person who IS scum? *hic

vote: PorkchopExpress

If you really wanted to lynch scum, then you'd vote who I'm voting. Also, any reason why you always put "*hic" at the end of every post you make?

Wait, vote with you to lynch scum. Ok, so it was a serious vote.

If you werent suspicious to whether my reasons for voting Echo were legit, then why would you ask if they were in the first place?

Why do you find my reaction more scummy than Ecto's? What scum motive do I have not to answer your question?

How about the fact that you are being dodgy as hell over a simple question? You made a vote, was it a serious one, yes or no, its not a complicated bit of math here. If you have a serious vote, then the last thing you should be doing is jerking somebody else's chain over whether you meant the vote or not.
There does not have to be an assignable scum 'motive' for your reaction. Instead it illustrates a mindset of a player who does not wish to divulge any information or be held to a specific opinion. By asking whether you were serious or not, d3x prevented you from later saying "What serious vote on Ecto? We were still in RVS stage OMFG you over-reactor!"

unvote; vote Nachomamma8

I don't care that you voted me. I care that you are trying to be as slippery as possible before there is even any possible cause to avoid directly answering a question, especially one as simple as whether you cast a serious vote.

First, way to basically ask the same question that d3x has been asking for a while now. Did you expect my response to change?

Second, there should always be a scum motive. If there's no reason for scum to do it, then it's not a scumtell, thus, not a reason to vote for someone. Then you're just lynching players because they're not you, and guess what that is? A SCUMTELL!

You do realize that saying something doesn't mean you're not doing it, right? Obviously you feel that your vote could be taken as OMGUS (because it probably is) because you had to reassure us that it wasn't directly after voting.

If you werent suspicious to whether my reasons for voting Echo were legit, then why would you ask if they were in the first place

Allow me to clarify, I did not know if you were making a Random Vote or not. I'm guessing that your answer is that it was a serious Vote {because you still have not said}. I was not questioning whether or not the reasons behind your Vote {RVS or not} were legit.

Why do you find my reaction more scummy than Ecto's?

Firstly, Ecto hasn't responded/reacted yet. Secondly, I think deflecting and being defensive are more scummy than trying to extend the RVS.

What scum motive do I have not to answer your question?

To see if Vi would follow suit*, for one. She brought up the fact that Ecto was trying to extend the RVS in p35. After she made a comment on it, you came out with a Vote. If she didn't back your play, you could've said that it was RVS nonsense.

*

Disclaimer

- I'm not calling Vi scummy, I'm calling Nm8 opportunistic. Though that does beg the question...

@Vi- If you found Ecto's play scummy, why wait to Vote until after Nm8?

d3x, why are you assuming anything in the first place? And if an RVS vote is made and the reasons are legit, then is it still an RVS vote?

Well, she has now. With an RVS vote and parroting off you. How does this make you feel?

Wow, an actual answer. Do you agree with Ecto's former statement that you don't need a scum motive to vote someone?

[Nachomamma8]

@Benmage and Porkchop:

Really? Is that the best you can come up with? "He's scummy because Ecto said so."

Does this mean that you agree that you don't need a scum motive to place a vote?
Do you also believe unwillingness to answer a question denotes scum?
Do you believe Ecto's vote was OMGUS? If so, why? What made it OMGUS? If not, why? What made it a legit vote?
Since Ecto has assured herself my vote was serious, have you done the same?

@Porkchop:

Can you post something worth of value, please?

@Ben:

But when the RVS has already ended, is it scummy to attempt to extend it?

Are you saying that people who do "scummy" things should be excused? Because you DID say that "many things people see as 'scummy' both town and scum do from time to time". If not, what was the point of that statement?

Do you believe that the RVS is beneficial to town?

@pwnz:

Seriously, what's with the *hic thing? Also, why do you feel like you have to extend the RVS as long as you can? Or are your accusations against Porkchop actually serious?

[Vi]

As for what can be derived from questions, it generates the type of conversational hooks that you lamented were missing from the game when you first posted. I also cast serious doubt as to whether these types of questions from your own games are any more effective:

viewtopic.php?t=12195

If I could have everyone's attention, please. I would like for everyone to fill out a quick survey for future reference.

1. How many games have you played to completion on this site?
2. Do you play Mafia on other sites? If so, what is different about those sites vs. here?
3. Do you consider yourself an experienced player?
4. Which other players in this game have you played with in the last six months?
5. Do you prefer to be Town, scum, or third party? Why?

6. Who is your favorite fictional character, and why?

7. How many scum do you think are in this game?
8. Why are you filling this survey out?
9. Do you think this survey will be useful in finding scum?
10. Am I more likely to be Town or scum in creating this survey?
11. Is English your first language?

Yes, I bolded #6. Don't be hypocritical. My questions are way more interesting and accomplish the exact same thing.

Notice that you bolded

one

out of eleven questions...
In addition, I would believe that a question like that would provide insight into a player's mindset, which I find valuable for assessing character and therefore how I would expect people to react in various situations.

----

Why did his Vote make up your mind?

"hmm, Ecto is being scummy"
Nacho: *vote*
"actually that was a good idea, let's do that"

----

@Nacho: Trim quotes to live. Trim quotes or die. I literally cannot read that post, and I think I was implicitly accused of something in there.

----

vi: please explain what's wrong with my six (now seven) posts? i am still waiting on an answer to my first two questions. is there something else i should be doing?

Less waiting and more doing something else while you're waiting comes to mind.

Unvote: Ectomancer
Vote: don_johnson

(L-6)

[Nachomamma8]

Now in not-so-quotey form!

How about the fact that you are being dodgy as hell over a simple question? You made a vote, was it a serious one, yes or no, its not a complicated bit of math here. If you have a serious vote, then the last thing you should be doing is jerking somebody else's chain over whether you meant the vote or not.
There does not have to be an assignable scum 'motive' for your reaction. Instead it illustrates a mindset of a player who does not wish to divulge any information or be held to a specific opinion. By asking whether you were serious or not, d3x prevented you from later saying "What serious vote on Ecto? We were still in RVS stage OMFG you over-reactor!"

unvote; vote Nachomamma8

I don't care that you voted me. I care that you are trying to be as slippery as possible before there is even any possible cause to avoid directly answering a question, especially one as simple as whether you cast a serious vote.

First, way to basically ask the same question that d3x has been asking for a while now. Did you expect my response to change?

Second, there should always be a scum motive. If there's no reason for scum to do it, then it's not a scumtell, thus, not a reason to vote for someone. Then you're just lynching players because they're not you, and guess what that is? A SCUMTELL!

You do realize that saying something doesn't mean you're not doing it, right? Obviously you feel that your vote could be taken as OMGUS (because it probably is) because you had to reassure us that it wasn't directly after voting.

In response to d3x's 72:

d3x, why are you assuming anything in the first place? And if an RVS vote is made and the reasons are legit, then is it still an RVS vote?

Well, she has now. With an RVS vote and parroting off you. How does this make you feel?

Wow, an actual answer. Do you agree with Ecto's former statement that you don't need a scum motive to vote someone?


Vi, noted. I'll actually trim them in the future.

[ConfidAnon]

Because I don't feel like being serious right now.

Why do you intend you interrogate me so thoroughly?

Both him and DJ are jumpy, but nacho more so than DJ. Interesting.

Considering everyone else's Votes were very clearly RVS, I find this very interesting. I asked you which it was due to the ambiguity of it. With you getting defensive and dodging for a third time, I'm getting a very bad feeling about you.

UnVote/Vote:Nm8

Good post.

Initial reaction is that d3x blew up Nacho's vote, not really sure why. d3x did have two votes on him at the time so he could have been trying to get serious stuff going to get them off him. But two votes in the general scheme of things is really nothing. There was just something a little fake about his reaction to me.

Hmmm . . . I see absolutly nothing scummy about d3x questioning Nm8, and it's a stretch to call it scum trying to get out of two RVS votes. Note to self: If Nm8 flips scum, Sotty is suspicious for this defense.

-------------------------------------

Right now, Nacho is obviously scummy . . . but not enough so that it warrants a vote from me yet.

[Ectomancer]

First, I didn't ask you if your vote was serious. I interpreted your statements as best as they could be deciphered as you stated them. Second, a specific scum motive doesn't have to be cited when it can be demonstrated that your mindset itself can be attributed to scum. I like how you brought out one portion of a statement to criticize and cut out the portion that tells you why you are scum.

And if an RVS vote is made and the reasons are legit, then is it still an RVS vote?

And if a bear shits in the woods with no one around does it still smell? Seriously, what kind of asinine wordplay game are you going on about that matters one whit? What matters, and what you steadfastly refuse to just simply state, was whether you had serious intentions behind your vote when you made it. You attempted to be coy about it, and got pressured beyond your expectations. Once caught up in act of being elusive as possible, you then tried to turn the situation around by acting as though you have "caught" d3x out in some scummy motivation with your philosophical trap of "And if an RVS vote is made and the reasons are legit, then is it still an RVS vote? "

Now, perhaps now you can go about explaining yourself

from the beginning

and show us the town motivation behind your actions. The scum part is covered.

[Nachomamma8]

ConfidAnon, why so hesitant? If I'm OBVIOUSLY scummy, then I OBVIOUSLY deserve a vote. Right?

As to your Sotty comment, what if I don't flip scum? Better yet, what if I don't get lynched?

@Ecto:

First, I didn't ask you if your vote was serious. I interpreted your statements as best as they could be deciphered as you stated them.

Or, you made an assumption. Which sounds more accurate to you?

Second, a specific scum motive doesn't have to be cited when it can be demonstrated that your mindset itself can be attributed to scum. I like how you brought out one portion of a statement to criticize and cut out the portion that tells you why you are scum.

Mmkay, then demonstrate how my mindset can be attributed to scum by example. Wait, I missed the portion where you told me why I am scum. Must've been too busy wading through all of the bullshit.

And if an RVS vote is made and the reasons are legit, then is it still an RVS vote?

And if a bear shits in the woods with no one around does it still smell?

If you point to me the relevance of your question to mine, I will honestly be impressed. I asked if a vote is made during the RVS with legit reasons then would it still be still be considered RVS? How is that philosophical? It's actually a straightforward question, but obviously you haven't managed to understand it.

Once caught up in act of being elusive as possible, you then tried to turn the situation around by acting as though you have "caught" d3x out in some scummy motivation with your philosophical trap of "And if an RVS vote is made and the reasons are legit, then is it still an RVS vote? "

Why have you started misrepresented me so quickly?
How is that a philosophical trap, as you so eloquently call it? It's a yes-no question. "Yes, because it was still made in the RVS and it's far too easy of a statement to retract." or "No, because serious accusations end the RVS."
Is it honestly that hard to understand...?

Now, perhaps now you can go about explaining yourself from the beginning and show us the town motivation behind your actions. The scum part is covered.

Really? Because d3x answered my question... you didn't. Unless of course, you have no opinions of your own...

[MiteyMouse]

Official Vote Count!

4Nachomamma8 4 (d3x, Ectomancer, PorkchopExpress, Benmage)
pwnz 2 (Amished, VP Baltar)
don_johnson 2 (ConfidAnon, Vi)
d3x 1 (Sotty)
Ectomancer 1 (Nachomamma8)
PorkchopExpress 1 (pwnz)

Not voting:

don_johnson

Oh yeah, Red is my colour...please don't use it either.

[Amished]

Unvote
Vote: ConfidAnon

Also vote for d3x, and benmage, if I could.

[Ectomancer]

You're continuing your trend of being a bullshit artist with your pants down. Scum are just as capable of making snarky comments as town. Not impressed with your obnoxious insistence on refusing to commit to a position, and turning it into your schtick doesn't make you town either.

I'll be pleased to ride this wagon to a lynch. Today.

[Nachomamma8]

You're continuing your trend of being a bullshit artist with your pants down. Scum are just as capable of making snarky comments as town. Not impressed with your obnoxious insistence on refusing to commit to a position, and turning it into your schtick doesn't make you town either.

I'll be pleased to ride this wagon to a lynch. Today.

Wait, did you just listen to anything I said? Did you honestly fail to acknowledge a single one of my questions?

And do try to be a bit more polite, Ecto. And let's start answering questions, too. Especially this one:

Would you be reacting the same way if you weren't being voted for? Just wondering. Because as of right now, a few people share your suspicions... They just don't express them as... colorfully as you do.

[don_johnson]

vi: i am not following you. so, whatever.

scumhunting update

sotty7
vpbaltar
confidanon

if any of you have explained your random votes since and i have missed said explanations simply refer me to the post said information is contained within.

didn't notice sotty's and vp's right off the bat. confid's caught my eye because he actively avoided explaining his "random" vote when asked. random votes should be the easiest votes to explain in the game of mafia. not sure why someone would avoid discussing it altogether. also, not sure how asking "why?" in spanish is classified as an "overreaction" and relates to me being "jumpy".

Note to self: If Nm8 flips scum, Sotty is suspicious for this defense.

note to confid: notes to self are explicitly

not

notes to self when published in thread. try a post-it pad.

post 85. no. no. no. please god... no.

top pick for scum: confidanon

[Ectomancer]

My position is stated clearly and succintly Nacho. You have yet to state yours, and that is the entire problem. Yes, I do intend to bypass your attempt at pages of quote rebuttal pyramids to render the town glassy eyed over the topic. Yes I intend to ignore your questions. I have no intentions of playing that particular scum game. You have no right to them through your refusal to answer those put to you. You can either get to explaining your every move from post 1 forward, and you can make absolute certain we know what your position is at every point, or you can expect to see my vote on you till lynch.

[Nachomamma8]

Let's wait before everyone else to join the party, shall we? Porkchop, Ben, Amished, ConfidAnon, pwnz, don... Explain a stance on the argument Ecto and I just had, and take a firm stance, and give (1) reason why. "I agree with so-and-so" is not a good answer. Also, please answer all questions asked of you. Thank you, and have a nice day.

[don_johnson]

Let's wait before everyone else to join the party, shall we? Porkchop, Ben, Amished, ConfidAnon, pwnz, don... Explain a stance on the argument Ecto and I just had, and take a firm stance, and give (1) reason why. "I agree with so-and-so" is not a good answer. Also, please answer all questions asked of you. Thank you, and have a nice day.

i have no stance. it was a tl;dr type of argument, but more like "skimmed' than "dr".

you asked me a question? could you repeat it? i saw many questions marks while skimming but didn't notice anything for me...