888: X-COM TFTD Mafia: Over!

[Igor Schultz]

/comfirm in.

LEON. Are you saying that people think they know who is scummy before they first post? and that every vote has good logical reasons this early in the game? Thus you are impling that we are all supper cops have esp, and never vote in RV. RVS is to start an early band wagon not to toss real votes on scummers around. However the scum will most likly not vote for one of their buddys, but other then that rvs votes are as good as that.

[Leon Dreyfus]

No, not in the slightest. I am saying that a random vote most of the time is not truly random. There are means for that vote.

Never did I utter the words ESP or "supper cop".

Also, lmfao @ supper cop.

[Jaime Marcelle]

Leon, I think you need to look at this one part of Igor's post that you seemed to ignore.

LEON. Are you saying that people think they know who is scummy before they first post?

and that every vote has good logical reasons this early in the game?

Thus you are impling that we are all supper cops have esp, and never vote in RV. RVS is to start an early band wagon not to toss real votes on scummers around. However the scum will most likly not vote for one of their buddys, but other then that rvs votes are as good as that.

None of the votes in the RVS are logical or have good reasoning. and also, all random votes are more are less random thus the random part of the random vote. Lets use your example: The reasoning is Player A has no votes. What if he did have votes and someone else didn't? See, random. Who they vote is based on who has votes and who doesn't.

[Jaime Marcelle]

EBWOP- Thae last part of my post didn't show up.

No vote in the RVS has a logicay good reason. Also, all votes in the RVS are more or less random. Lets use your example: PlayerA is getting voted because there are no votes on him. Suppose PlayerA DID have votes while Player B didn't. The voter would vote PlayerB, not PlayerA. Since on the RVS stage both players are equally likely of getting voted it is random on who the voter in this example will vote. The vote depends on who has votes and who doesn't.

[Leon Dreyfus]

I never said it had a logically sound reason. /facepalm

And yeah, you proved my point through your example meant to undermine it...

[Gerhard Krause]

You guys are going in circles. Leon is saying that there is some sort of reason for any vote someone places, even if that reason is subconscious, and

maybe

you can draw something from that.

Jaime's point is equally valid, that the vast majority of the time judging a player based on an RV is stupid.

[Claude Lefevre]

Pretty philosophical, I daresay... of course nothing is really random, even a computer-based generator of random numbers is actually semi-random... problem is, that we do not want to waste too much time investiganting potentially useless psychological facts. For instance I think I RV-ed, but perhaps my subconscious did not like the avatar of the person I voted... interesting, but unuseful to the game, in my opinion.

[Emile Buchard]

This random vote non-sense isn't getting us anywhere. Seriously guys, this isn't helping. We need to stop speculating about game theory and start scum-hunting. You talk about that in the Mafia Discussion forum (and I'm sure it would be an interesting discussion there) but this stuff really doesn't matter.

I do think that the discussion is between townies, though, as both Jamie and Lean seem like they want to move the game along. It's still too early to make any clear reads, though.

[Igor Schultz]

We need to get some info going, as emile is saying this has nothing to do with the game. Some person votes any one that they like in RVS be it real RV or because they have an urge. It does not matter. We need to get the game going. It is a bit too early to make a real reead yet...

[Jaime Marcelle]

You know what? Emile is right. This whole discussion about the RVs is pretty much stupid. Let's try and have a useful discussion instead.

[malthusis]

Tracey, Otto, and Stuart are all getting prodded....

Edit:Andrew is going to get prodded too if he doesn't post soon...

[Otto Ulbreicht]

You know what? Emile is right. This whole discussion about the RVs is pretty much stupid. Let's try and have a useful discussion instead.

I'm all ears. How do you propose we do this?

[Igor Schultz]

start a wagon like in most games... That most of the time gets the game ball rolling.

[Gerhard Krause]

Usually, but if the wagon is baseless it csn just go on for a while and no useful discussion will come of it.

Igor - How many games of mafia have you played? How many themed games?

You are treading on a very thin line. Igor may say how many games he has finished, but he may not tell you exactly which ones he was in.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

A wagon on Edward has some basis because of his inane idea. I'd like for him to explain exactly how his plan would help the town.

[Tracey Morris]

to all : i was in another game and one of the player suggested the other player vote for himself.

in this case, i want the you guys to vote me..

what do you think if i say you guys scum if don't follow my plan?

It's not really a plan, per se; but rather a request (or order). I would ask to hear more of your so-called plan as to why you want everyone to vote for you. I agree, asking people to vote for you is just like self voting.

[Claude Lefevre]

@Edward: since we cannot get any meta, cuz of the alts, I would say that your "plan" is pointless... the right reaction would be voting you right now, cuz your attitude is almost identical to self-vote, which is normally a pretty silly attempt by scums to look confident in their own innocence. You are now the best candidate to become the target of a bw. But I keep my vote where it is, for the moment, and I want to know your justification for posting such an invitation.

About the last question: what do YOU say if I say you are scum if you don't do what I want? LoL I guess you would say I am an idiot. So you have my answer to your point.

[Leon Dreyfus]

Vote: Gerhard

Blatant meta fishing.

[malthusis]

Half an hour after the deliberations start, you hear the bell marking noon (and lunch). The head scientist says "Since you're preoccupied with these deliberations right now, I'll go get lunch for all of you. We just got a new shipment of supplies in today from the mainland, and some of them aren't military rations for once!" You can hear Edward drool over the thought of actual food coming in, and the scientist runs out of the doors of the Sub Pen, with a huge click of the door locking behind him.....

The Second Vote Count of Day 2:

Jaime Marcelle:2 (Otto, Edward)

Leon Dreyfus:1 (Claude)
Gerhard Krause:1(Leon)
Igor Schultz:1 (Andrew)
Claude Lefevre:1 (Jaime)
Edward Smilie:2 (Tracey, Gerhard)
Stuart Whyte:1(Spencer)

Not Voting:3 (Stuart, Emile, Igor)

Notes:

1.Edward is being prodded.

[Emile Buchard]

Edward, you said that if we didn't vote for you that we were scum. Well, you aren't voting for yourself, so by your own logic, you are scum. Explain

Gehard is meta-fishing, that's true, but is that scummy? I personally think that meta benefits the town more than scum. Still, Igor is under no obligation to answer.

Be back with more later.

[Emile Buchard]

Okay, it's later. Here's some more:

It was close between two people....while I hate twilight and new moon references, and wish to vote for the one who made them, someone else deserves my vote more:

vote:Jaime Marcelle

For using a dice to determine your RVS vote to avoid responsibility for your actions.

Dice = anti-town

Otto was the one who started the whole dice deal. While you could make the argument that it was just as random as the other votes, he still gains some scum points.

How does using a dice avoid responsibility other then any other random vote? It's just as random as anything else.

Also I reccomend everyone get an avatar. It's easier (for me at least, I'm not sure about everyone else) for me to tell everyone apart.

Many feel that using a dice method to cast your votes is not showing your own responsibility of casting a vote, and man feel, as well, that it is Anti-Town. With that being said, some view it also as policy lynch worthy. What do you think?

Furthering the fruitless RVS discussion without taking a stance either way. If you look at it right, this post could easily be the first post in a topic in Mafia Discussion. What ensues is pretty much what you'd expect as replies in that topic.

If it's policy lynch worthy? Why wouldn't it be? I see no reason for why it wouldn't be beneficial. That is, asking the question itself.

Thanks for clarifying. But you are utterly wrong. Hardly any RVS votes are random. They have a reason for voting that player, which they will pass of as a random vote.


Example"Hmm, player A doesn't have any votes."

"Sup, guys!

Vote: Player A"

Pushing the discussion even more and asking more questions. Looking back, really only two posted more than one response to the whole RVS deal. Those two people were Leon and Jaime. Jaime was defending himself, though, so much of the blame for the whole RVS deal could be thrown on Leon.

@Leon, why were you asking those questions about the RVS?\

@Otto, was your vote on Jaime just another random vote, or was there a real reason for it?

[Stuart Whyte]

vote Emile Buchard

[Otto Ulbreicht]

Okay, it's later. Here's some more:

It was close between two people....while I hate twilight and new moon references, and wish to vote for the one who made them, someone else deserves my vote more:

vote:Jaime Marcelle

For using a dice to determine your RVS vote to avoid responsibility for your actions.

Dice = anti-town

Otto was the one who started the whole dice deal. While you could make the argument that it was just as random as the other votes, he still gains some scum points.

@Otto, was your vote on Jaime just another random vote, or was there a real reason for it?

Why do I gain scum points? Think about this for a second:

I gave a reason that was just as valid as any other RVS vote reason, and if you deny this, you are a hypocrite.

I am not scum for bringing this up. Two things in the RVS that will get you policy votes are self votes and dice rolls for ways of voting. When I saw Jaime roll dice for his vote, I took the policy vote stand, as for the most part it is scum who do it to avoid vote responsibility. If anything, one of those who agreed with me and/or joined the BW is scum [if Jaime isn't scum] I made the stand, and the fact that others supported my stand either implies that I was right [not earning mr scum points but rather town points], or there are opportunistic scum with me.

What do you have to say now?

Oh, and good to know who Chaco is now lol

[Otto Ulbreicht]

vote Emile Buchard

Please elaborate on this.

[Stuart Whyte]

vote Emile Buchard

Please elaborate on this.

He smells like scum.