Mini 891 - British Comedy Mafia (Game Over)

[Snow_Bunny]

@Snow, I like early wagons. What the big problem with it?

Well, jumping from one wagon to another without much reason is scum. And, just jumping from one wagon to another without scumhunting is also bad. So... yeah.

[ConfidAnon]

I'm here, can't post much right now (sick + homework), but I'll probably get caught up tomorrow.

Sorry for being inactive at the very beginning.

[Netopalis]

Position on Lyman:
To me, his play can be read in one of two ways: Either as scum who is trying to use a fatalistic appeal to emotion in order to deter votes or as a frustrated townie who is annoyed at the suspicion that grew from practically nothing. Personally, I like the latter read - I can definitely sympathize with that position as it's happened to me a ton of times (Bandwagoning early against me for defending a player, for questioning the speed of bandwagons, for discussing mafia theory and for questioning the efficacy of voting without reason after discussion has started, to name a few). In all cases, I've tended to...lose my temper a bit and feel quite a lot like his posts sound. He could still be scum who's putting on a good act...but I don't feel that this is really sufficient to push for a lynch.

[Budja]

@Net, give me a better case then. Who is scummiest?

@Snow, my vote on fuzzy was only a bit better than a random vote. Josh's wagon is superior so I changed. I changed because I agreed with Macavity's case.

(Also, early wagons are good .)

@Snow, why do you think fuzzy voted for a no lynch?

[Netopalis]

Nobody, yet. To me, all are null reads because nobody has done anything particularly scummy.

[Locke Lamora]

I find Josh's appeal for mass-prods particularly odd. Josh, did you receive your role at the same time as the thread was opened? I certainly didn't get my role PM 9 days ago, so unless you were given yours a lot earlier, how do you justify trying to draw attention to players for not posting when the game hadn't even begun?

[Snow_Bunny]

@Budja: Your vote might be just a bit more than a random vote, but still, it is there. I don't like "I random voted in a wagon!" either.

Why do I think fuzzy voted for a no-lynch? The hell I know. I only know that he did something I consider a scumtell. And that's enough.

[imaginality]

I agree with Fuzzyman 46 that Josh's implosion 44 is a scum tell. I think it's relatively rarer for townies to get that frustrated that early. More votes on Josh please.

[ortolan]

Second vote count

Josh Lyman (4): MacavityLock, imaginality, Budja, Fuzzyman
Fuzzyman (2): Snow_Bunny, Chinaman
Snow_Bunny (1): jasonT1981
Budja (1): Josh Lyman

7 to lynch

[imaginality]

Position on Lyman:
To me, his play can be read in one of two ways: Either as scum who is trying to use a fatalistic appeal to emotion in order to deter votes or as a frustrated townie who is annoyed at the suspicion that grew from practically nothing.

Or as a frustrated scum who is annoyed at the suspicion that grew from practically nothing. I don't think it's uncommon for scum to get annoyed when they feel they're being picked on for the 'wrong' reasons.

What do you think of Lyman's calling out lurkers already? Warranted or unwarranted? Genuine or attempt to divert attention?

[jasonT1981]

Whatever. I guess I not only suck at theory, I just suck at Mafia.

Lynch me, whatever. I'll be back in a day or so.

Josh has seemingly been all over the place so far, but I really do not like this appeal to emotion. It is deffinate scum points but I still cant decide if Josh is out and out scummy or just a rabbit caught in the headlights and not knowing how to react.

He does seem though, by asking for prods etc seem desperate to take away attention from himself which is scum-points as well, instead of turning attention away, he maybe should be scum hunting.

however in saying that I am tending to agree with snowbunny here

@Snow, I like early wagons. What the big problem with it?

Well, jumping from one wagon to another without much reason is scum. And, just jumping from one wagon to another without scumhunting is also bad. So... yeah.

It does seem scummy, but you have to take into consideration that one of those votes was a random vote. However if repeatedly done I could see where you are coming from.

My main thinking about Josh calling the lurkers out, is that it was premature and seemingly done to get attention off himself, as it was the weekend I know not everyone has access at all times, I myself am V/LA most weekends.

I'd like to hear a bit more from Josh before I decide if I am going to vote him, I would like others like an explanation for his prod requests so quickly, and also for his grave appeal to emotion in the 'lynch me then' saga. I find 9/10 times it is usually scum who do that. But yea, he has some explaining to do when he returns I think.

Sorry for taking so long guys, as I said I am usually V/LA and not near the computer from friday afternoon until Sunday night.

[Netopalis]

I don't really feel that the request for prods was premature. All players received a PM notifying them of the game startup, and it's been up for 3 days. The fact that it was done in a second post just means that it was more of an afterthought.

[ConfidAnon]

Page 1, nothing scummy really.

Josh strikes me more as overreacting town than scum.

Sorry for not having much to comment on, but I'm back and ready to play now.

[Chinaman]

Looking back through, I can only do one thing.

Vote: Josh Lyman

Reasoning (in ISO format):
p10: huh? what? first point you make is a disagreement with Budja's opinion of RVS. Next is what looks like an attempt at buddying with Snow. Then you disagree with Budja's feel from Fuzzy's posts. Then you vote based on that? Color me confused. I can only see it as trying to move the spotlight from yourself in any way you can.

p11: mass prod. I tend to agree that some have yet to post, but the timeframe in which the game started says "give them time". It looks like an early attempt to look town by wanting lurkers prodded.

p12: Soft claim town....null tell I guess.

p13: I have no way to read this other than AtE. I have been lynched unjustly as town D1 for crap arguments by others many times, and never have I thought that a post like this would be a good idea. I have however seen scum use it. TBH though, I have seen one other townie use it as well. That townie was in a though spot at the time (he replaced into a 83 page game where his predecessor was under heavy suspicion)

Those things and not having anyone else on the scumdar at this time force me to vote you JL. If you have given up on this game at only what is now L-2, then you're of no use to us no matter your alignment.

[Josh Lyman]

I have not given up on this game. Just very frustrated.

I will try tonight to re-read the game and see if I can be of any use in scumhunting.



What is AtE? It's not in the Wiki.

[Netopalis]

Appeal to emotion.

[MacavityLock]

@Budja: Your vote might be just a bit more than a random vote, but still, it is there. I don't like "I random voted in a wagon!" either.

Why not?

Why do I think fuzzy voted for a no-lynch? The hell I know. I only know that he did something I consider a scumtell. And that's enough.

Does context play any role in your scumhunting?

[ortolan]

Third vote count and replacement

Josh Lyman (5): MacavityLock, imaginality, Budja, Fuzzyman, Chinaman
Fuzzyman (1): Snow_Bunny
Snow_Bunny (1): jasonT1981
Budja (1): Josh Lyman

7 to lynch

BloodCovenent replaces Grandi, who never picked up his role PM

[Chinaman]

Welcome Blood. When you get caught up, I'd like to here your thoughts on Josh Lyman issue and SB's thoughts on Budja and Fuzzy.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Budja: Your vote might be just a bit more than a random vote, but still, it is there. I don't like "I random voted in a wagon!" either.

Why not?

When you throw in a random vote in a forming serious wagon, you are just being opportunistic.

Why do I think fuzzy voted for a no-lynch? The hell I know. I only know that he did something I consider a scumtell. And that's enough.

Does context play any role in your scumhunting?

Please explain, as currently I am not understanding what you want to ask me (and neither how that question has any relation with what you quoted.)

[Budja]

I've said this before and I say it again: "early wagons are good".

Fuzzy's no lynch vote was an attempt (albeit weakly done) to leave the RVS. It looked obv. intentional and as such wasn't really a tell at all. This is the context Macavity is talking about (assumption, correct me if I am wrong).

Also:
My vote on Locke was obv. random.
My vote into Fuzzy's wagon was weak, but not random.
My vote into the wagon on Josh was not random at all.

[Snow_Bunny]

Welcome Blood. When you get caught up, I'd like to here your thoughts on Josh Lyman issue and SB's thoughts on Budja and Fuzzy.

I'm getting a scum read on Budja. On Fuzzy, the only thing that bothers me is the no-lynch vote. I find that scummy, but it's only that.

[BloodCovenent]

Welcome Blood. When you get caught up, I'd like to here your thoughts on Josh Lyman issue and SB's thoughts on Budja and Fuzzy.

I'm getting a scum read on Budja.

I agree.

Whatever. I guess I not only suck at theory, I just suck at Mafia.

Lynch me, whatever. I'll be back in a day or so.

AtE

I think that voting for no-lynch is scummy, whatever it's in the rvs or mid-day.

And I'm not seeing how such pressure formed on Josh for those posts. I'm even more suspicious of Budja jumping in the wagon.

I'll ask you the following then. How is it scummy?

Now, I feel we're getting deep into the territory of theory, and I'll be the first to admit I suck at theory (mafia and non-Mafia. Theory in general. I suck. Practical experience is mainly what I rely on, IRL and here.)

ATN!!!!!!!!

---

There is scum in this succession of three votes.
Personally, I think it's Budja. It feels like opportunistic voting.

I would be willing to lynch Budja or Josh. So much, that i am willing to

Vote: Josh

, even though it's only three pages into the game.

[BloodCovenent]

Welcome Blood. When you get caught up, I'd like to here your thoughts on Josh Lyman issue and SB's thoughts on Budja and Fuzzy.

I'm getting a scum read on Budja. On Fuzzy, the only thing that bothers me is the no-lynch vote. I find that scummy, but it's only that.

I think there is absolutely nothing scummy about self voting or no lynching in the RVS. I rarely see scum do it. And i'll be perfectly honest, me replacing in prohibited me from doing it myself.

[BigBear]

Subscribing to the game:

Done.