Newbie 892 - The Future of Magic. Game Over! Mafia Win

[The Tracker]

The mehmehmeh Vote count

The Tracker: RayFrost, Dimaba
Jackabomb: Easjo682
cdubs: LordChronos
RayFrost: Jackabomb
LordChronos: Yosarian2

Not voting: cdubs

Deadline is 26th January 2010, 9pm England time.

Lots of Love,
Hayl

Okay, sounds fair. I guess I've just always been in favor of strong arm tactics, and I guess that transfers over to Mafia in a way.

[Doctor]

Hows abouts we lynch tracker and see what we can dig up from the site we found him at. (wiki + obituary reference = win)

Reading along here, if you are serious which I'm going to assume you are seeing as we are leaving the RVS behind, why should we lynch tracker so soon, its only been a day in real time, and we have until the 28th to decide, there have hardly been any posts.

Attempting to rally a lynch on such a short amount of time, and information to go on feels quite scummy to me.

[The Tracker]

Hows abouts we lynch tracker and see what we can dig up from the site we found him at. (wiki + obituary reference = win)

Got sniped by this. Trust me Ray, lynching me will not help. Also, since I had a different user on that site and played all of three games (got fed up with the random crap) that won't give you much information either.

[RayFrost]

Hows abouts we lynch tracker and see what we can dig up from the site we found him at. (wiki + obituary reference = win)

Reading along here, if you are serious which I'm going to assume you are seeing as we are leaving the RVS behind, why should we lynch tracker so soon, its only been a day in real time, and we have until the 28th to decide, there have hardly been any posts.

Attempting to rally a lynch on such a short amount of time, and information to go on feels quite scummy to me.

It was a joke.

Read Tracker's wiki to get the joke.

[Jackabomb]

I've read his wiki. I don't get it.

[RayFrost]

"Despite being new (and the old mafia boards he was on operated solely on gut tells)"

thus the word site

dig up after lynching as in dig up from the grave

Also, I think Jackabomb is a ZEEnon alt.

[Jackabomb]

I assure you, I'm not. What makes you think that?
I didn't know Zeenon played here. I have a link to the site I first started playing at, if you want proof. There's no registered Zeenon there.

[RayFrost]

ZEEnon always posts his stuff in blue.

You seem to always be posting your stuff in red.

[Jackabomb]

I'm only posting in red because blue is off-limits in this game. Odd coincidence.

[RayFrost]

I replaced ZEE in a game once... the game was later abandoned...

[Jackabomb]

Signing off for tonight.

[dimaba]

My my Dimaba, you certainly seem to be jumping on the vote right off the bat. Yeah, okay, Frost's reasoning makes sense but mind bringing some of your own ideas to the table instead of just following the SE?

I sure don't. But really, what else was there to reason about? The ony anti-town action I could see was the LaL-policy you seemed to support. And since that point had effectively been made by someone else, why go through the trouble of retyping it? There just wasn't enough information to form an idea of my own that hadn't been mentioned already, certainly not at 2AM while in dire need of sleep.

On that same point, I fail to see where you added any thoughts of your own on who to lynch. You seemed to have done that with the LaL-statement but now that you've explained how that is just a last resort and not an effective way to find scum, where are your thoughts on who to lynch?

At this point I see voting as a way to force people to defend themselves. So as long the vote doesn't put anyone close to a lynch, I don't see how it is bad to vote right off the bat.

Things about other players that caught my eye:

LordChronos: hasn't added anything in the discussion. Voted on one of the inactives and has spent most of his time asking questions about gameplay etc. My feeling right now is new and not sure what to add, but probably not deliberate scum action. That said, he is the one that's getting closest to being an active lurker. I'd like to see him post more.

Jackabomb: Encourages discussion at all points, involves himself in serious discussion and is critical without being fanatical. Gets town points from me. This caught my eye because it is quite different to how he played in the last game we had together.

easjo: sensible thoughts on lynching lurkers (post 96) which are slightly contradicted by the statement that lurking is in itself suspicious (post 50). Only slightly though, as post 96 makes clear that the reasoning there applies only to day 1 lynches.
@easjo: do you think lurking becomes a reason for a lynch on future Days?

cdubs: inactive. Might be heading for replacement? I'm not suspicious of him yet. Lurking IMO becomes suspicious only when players consistently post just before they would be prodded or just after they have been prodded and then disappear again until the next 72 hrs have passed, or when they post to appear active but don't actually contribute. It's then a deliberate action to draw as little attention as possible and still be useless to town.

Nothing much to say on other players yet.

And again, any arguments at this point are based on vague suspicions and minor disagreements and I'm sure my vote will change in the course of the day

[RayFrost]

Wow, nothing much to say about me, yet you use my reasoning as support for one of your votes.

I must be very... nondescript, then.

[easjo682]

has anyone developed any opinions yet as to who is scum?

I have some thoughts so for now I will

UNVOTE

FOmS

(finger of minor sus) tracker

FOS

(finger of sus) dimaba

FOS

(finger of sus)RayFrost

[RayFrost]

Any specific reasoning?

[easjo682]

@easjo: do you think lurking becomes a reason for a lynch on future Days?

I'd rather wait and see rather than develope a set policy. In future days I will put forward an opinion put forward your opinions as well as it developes the conversation and possibly more scumtells

[RayFrost]

So far, you've basically FoSed the other active players.

Do you have any scumtells on us or is it just because you feel that we aren't doing enough despite our activity?

[easjo682]

@Ray,
Rayfrost-making jokes about who is scumbuddies with Mod, you tried very well i might add to befriend me early on in the game possibly so if you get caught the next suspect is me, trying to get bandwagon voting going on tracker, you seem anxious of everyones scum opinions without putting forward too much of an opinion yourself

Dimaba-backing rayfrost right away unconditionally

tracker-cause tracker did put forward the lynching lurkers, even if tracker was saying it off the bat

does that help

[easjo682]

sorry if its taking me a while to post, I'm trying to do other things on the net.

[RayFrost]

It does.

Dimaba stuff I agree with.

Tracker stuff I agree with.

Stuff on me is...

Problem with the jokes thing is that both town and scum make jokes, so it's a null tell.

My saying I'll like you as a player doesn't say anything alignment-wise. I've buddied with town as town before. I haven't really buddied as scum, but I don't have much in the way of scum experience (two finished games as scum, lost both times).

Bandwagons aren't scummy, and MD actually shows many that support bandwagons as town or scum (cobalt...). Null tell.

I'm not really sure how you can say that I'm not giving my opinions when I believe it is quite clear that I think tracker is the scummiest player so far (it's a weak tell, but weak is better than nothing).

But yeh, posting reasons is good, since it allows a few things...

1. the rest of the town to see your reasoning

2. the person to defend themselves (though this isn't always a good thing: see being scum/town that makes a bad case and ends up dead for it)

[dimaba]

Wow, nothing much to say about me, yet you use my reasoning as support for one of your votes.

I must be very... nondescript, then.

I suppose I should've mentioned you but I thought my opinion on you already showed well enough from my support for your reasoning and your vote. There wasn't anything new to add and I didn't have anything to ask you.

[The Tracker]

@Dimaba: Now why would I have a thought on someone to lynch when the day has just barely started? I'm not going to even think about putting anyone on the chopping block just yet. So why do you want a lynch opinion? Thinking of steering a quicklynch, scumboy?

@Frost: I'm amazed at how you seem to think me saying I would lynch a lurker if it came down to it is me trying to steer a mislynch.

[dimaba]

@Dimaba: Now why would I have a thought on someone to lynch when the day has just barely started? I'm not going to even think about putting anyone on the chopping block just yet. So why do you want a lynch opinion? Thinking of steering a quicklynch, scumboy?

If you read correctly, the point is not that I want you to vote on someone, the point is that you have accused me of not bringing my own ideas to the table while you had not brought yours either. I'm not asking for a vote, I'm asking for opinions. "If we had to lynch now, who would you lynch and why?" is a question that can be answered without putting heads on the chopping block. Just let us know who you think is most suspicious or let us know that you don't find anyone suspicious. Either is fine, but so far you have spent your time responding to what others think about you and not saying what you think about others.

[The Tracker]

I've been responding in defense of myself. I saw no need to post opinions at that point in time.

Anyway, if we had to lynch someone right at this moment and I had to hammer, I would go with you, Dimaba. You hopped on the thread then voted me without any ideas other than Ray's. I'm going to be found suspicious in some games I play, yes, but for you to just hop on Day 1 without ever having posted and just saying "I agree with Ray, vote Tracker," appears a bit like scum trying to steer a mislynch.

[dimaba]

I've been responding in defense of myself. I saw no need to post opinions at that point in time.

Anyway, if we had to lynch someone right at this moment and I had to hammer, I would go with you, Dimaba. You hopped on the thread then voted me without any ideas other than Ray's. I'm going to be found suspicious in some games I play, yes, but for you to just hop on Day 1 without ever having posted and just saying "I agree with Ray, vote Tracker," appears a bit like scum trying to steer a mislynch.

Alright.

The thing is, I don't really see what's so wrong with that. I read through the thread, I noticed what you said and did and found that at that point you were the player who seemed most anti-town in his actions(reason: your anti-lurkers-statement). I then read on and found that Ray had summarised that point fairly well and had added a point that I had missed myself but which made sense. I could've rephrased what Ray said and not quoted him but what's the point? There just wasn't that much more to add.
Besides, I did add a thought of my own. It was hypothetical and weak, but I did do more than just copy-paste Ray's brain.

As for steering towards a mislynch... We're nowhere near that yet and I certainly don't want to get there any time soon. Had you had more votes on you already, I would have withheld my vote. And if you now recieve more votes to put you close to a lynch, I will withdraw mine. We don't want a quicklynch and I certainly won't be the one to give it to you.

My suspicion of you, both at the time of the vote and now, isn't strong enough to actually want you lynched now. The vote, as I said before, is an effective means of getting a response (it worked, right?) and doesn't have to lead to a lynch. My suspicion also isn't weak enough to withdraw my vote. Although you have clarified your LaL-position to a point where it isn't necessarily anti-town anymore and my original reason to suspect you is now less strong, your responses to my accusations have been to criticise me instead (not counting your last post of course, since I asked you to give your opinion and you did). Consider "Have you got any thoughts of your own?" (post 75), and suggesting that I'm aiming for a quicklynch when I asked you to express your opinions (post 121). Misrepresenting my post and trying to shift blame on me are two actions likely to come from scum.