Open 203: C/9 Mafia Wins!

[The1fifi]

V/LA

for 2 days


Vote Count-Sho
Scott-Lowell, Gheb, tatetothetot,
Lowell-Wdjat, gameplayah
gameplayah-the1fifi
Max-Gayle, kyle99

[Max]

These reads are both crap. The question you aimed at The1fifi wasn't really phrased in the way that you're interpreting it after he answered. And this read on kyle99 is more about best practices in regards to building cases. We're looking an RVS vote. I'm sure his thinking was something like "that guy is right above me so I'll vote him." That said, we have more to build a read from. We get a sense of their personality. And you said you didn't play by meta, you big liar.

I'm not, I metagame my opponents within a single game, I don't search for people's games then meta them on that. Meta based on the few pages of a game should be consistent throughout.

Max, I'm sorry, but you're a moron. All of you're "discoveries" are complete crap.

Okay, so tell me kyle, as you have only posted in things of one lines what have

you

discovered?

I would like to remind you that you are doing the same thing, sir. That is, whining instead of scum hunting.

Does that make it right for you not to? Just because other players don't doesn't meant that you shouldn't. E.g. mass roleclaim (not in this game it wouldn't help)

So, why don't you enlighten us about what these random votes tell us? You say you prefer RVS then show us how RVS is helping you.

I'm antagonistic

Is that a role claim? Antagonist? I know you mean in the other sense but I couldn't resist.

[Gheb]

Do people enjoy answering questions not pointed at them? 1fifi, just because a question

about

you has been asked doesn't mean you should answer it before the asked player did. There might be a reason as to why Max asked me in particular. At the very least you could've waited for my response.

Gheb: The1fifi has made an error already, would you consider this to be a scumtell?

Only if he continues to make such errors. By itself it's too little to base a wagon on but it's still something worthwhile to talk about and something to keep in mind for later.

This sounds really weak to me. I can't believe that this post has you actually worried.

Can't see what's wrong with it. It's not like Gayle was just voting randomly but he explicitly said "Fuck serious, more RVS". That might've been a joke but I think people should be held to what they said / did in the RVS. You can't just brush everything off as a "joke" when it happens to be convenient.

Unvote Vote Kyle

One thing I'm looking for scum to do is to bully "morons". That's the easy way for scum to look pro-town without actually hunting scum. You want to lynch scum not "morons".

[Lowell]

unvote, vote max

. I'm squarely with the penguin on this one. Max is being more meta than helpful. The meaningless questions, the one-liners. I'll take a pass on it.

[The1fifi]

I agree with the penguin too, about max being a moron. but altough i don't like his play, i don't see it as scummy. and i see no reason to vote him.

Lowel

Max is being more meta than helpful. The meaningless questions, the one-liners

I do agree with this, but i believe it as a gamestyle, and not as scumtell. At least, at this point of the game.

I'll take a pass on it.

Well..

Vote Lowell

[Max]

Lowell

unvote, vote max

. I'm squarely with the penguin on this one. Max is being more meta than helpful. The meaningless questions, the one-liners. I'll take a pass on it.

Are you genuinely trying to insinuate that you've been more helpful than I?

You're lurking. You've only posted once making a case against a player and that's against me. You're other 3 posts were before we had conversation. Make yourself useful and post something more than:

"I agree with Y <Paraphrase another player>, <Insert Bandwagon>"

And what makes it worse is your paraphrasing a player who did the same thing:

Lowell is imitating Kyle's arguments who's imitating Gayle's.

If that was the same for every player we might as well not play a game and just stroke each others' egos.

@

Gheb

Yes, I selected you as you were the only other player asides from me not to vote. Getting some information from you would aid the game and give us something to analyse. All other players had voted e.g. Kyle, so getting something from you would allow us to progress.

Do you feel that players who support RVS need to do more to actually analyse it?

@

wdjat

Asides from goading other players I haven't really seen you do much, IIoA I believe is the phrase. Also, you call me a liar, I really meant more along the lines of

my

meta not others'. It's fair game.

Dude. RANDOM voting stage. It is for shits and giggles. That's why it's worthless.

He seems to be inciting arguments between players while not getting involved himself. Either he's level headed and trying not to become biased or is keeping himself low ... which is inherently anti-town.

@

Gayle

In post 49 you respond to Wdjat's post asking you to show us your vote analysing which you ignored. Why?

Do you feel that the RVS stage has lost meaning since the RQS vs. RVS battle took over?

@

Kyle

I've pretty much already been over this with Lowell, you accuse me of having no content yet you have none either. Are you going to become an active member of the town or continue with your passive membership?

@

gameplayah

You haven't posted in a while, has Lowell done anything to redeem himself in your eyes? If not, what has made you maintain your position?

@

Tatetothetot

+ All Others

Has the game advanced at a pace you are happy with? If not why not?
Which player has generated the most attention in your opinion? Is that rightfully so?
Who has remained under the radar? Should they have?
Is there a player who needs to pick up activity? Who?

[Sho Minamimoto]

Scott has failed to pick up his PM. Giving 24 hours before attempting replacement. Stupid variables shouldn't screw up a perfect equation...

~Sho

[danakillsu]

Sorry for not posting yet. I'll read through and be back shortly.

vote:Gayle

for showing up in another game with me.

[danakillsu]

Yeah, the post that reeks scum to me right now is post 7. I know everyone has drawn some battle lines and stuff, but I don't really buy into any of it. I don't think anything of value has really happened since the RVS.

unvote vote: wdjat

[Gayle]

In post 49 you respond to Wdjat's post asking you to show us your vote analysing which you ignored. Why?

Do you feel that the RVS stage has lost meaning since the RQS vs. RVS battle took over?

RVS was brutally murdered by an argument and your RQS before anything could come out of it. So no, I am not going to try to analyze those votes.

Do you really believe that your questions are giving you a reliable read on the other players? Who are you top suspects and what makes them scummy? As clearly as possible, even if you have to repeat yourself.

Sorry for not posting yet. I'll read through and be back shortly.

vote:Gayle

for showing up in another game with me.

Love blossoms through frequent meetings. Every time I join a game, it is only to get closer to you.

[Lowell]

@max- I'm trying to insinuate that you're PRETENDING to be more helpful than I. I dont' particularly think I've done anything world-beating, but it's only page 3.

[Wdjat]

I mean, it's only been a couple months since your second game so surely you can point to the eureka moment.

Let's get to the point. You want to say that I'm being dishonest about my liking of RVS, correct? I've already told you that playing more games changed my opinion about it. There is no "eureka moment". Go read Teleportation Mafia Universe One if you want to see another game of mine where I echo this sentiment.

On the nose! You're being dishonest about your perceived value of RVS over RQS. If you actually believed in the value of RVS, you could still have gained that value while other people are asking random questions. You talk about creating bandwagons for reactions doing whatever else with votes. You can still do that while max is saying stuff you think adds nothing to the thread. But instead you jump on him for doing something that deviates from standard play and therefore he must be scum? I call bullshit.

Here's the problem: For all your praise of early wagons as a tool for scum hunting, you're doing a crap job of it. Like I haven't seen anything that looks like scum hunting from you, just whining about R(V/Q)S. Show us how it's done.

I would like to remind you that you are doing the same thing, sir. That is, whining instead of scum hunting.

Yeah you're still not showing us how it's done. Instead you're telling me that you're antagonistic and not to take it personally. I found my scum. It's you.

vote: Gayle

[Wdjat]

These reads are both crap. The question you aimed at The1fifi wasn't really phrased in the way that you're interpreting it after he answered. And this read on kyle99 is more about best practices in regards to building cases. We're looking an RVS vote. I'm sure his thinking was something like "that guy is right above me so I'll vote him." That said, we have more to build a read from. We get a sense of their personality. And you said you didn't play by meta, you big liar.

I'm not, I metagame my opponents within a single game, I don't search for people's games then meta them on that. Meta based on the few pages of a game should be consistent throughout.

Fair enough. I read your original comment about meta to mean you don't do the meta thing at all. I've seen these players. They're real. I was worried you'd be one of them.

[Wdjat]

This sounds really weak to me. I can't believe that this post has you actually worried.

Can't see what's wrong with it. It's not like Gayle was just voting randomly but he explicitly said "Fuck serious, more RVS". That might've been a joke but I think people should be held to what they said / did in the RVS. You can't just brush everything off as a "joke" when it happens to be convenient.

I don't think that alone is enough to get you worried. I mean you can see that I share your opinion about Gayle by now, but it was the way he leaned on the subject that really looked scummy to me, not that initial post.

[Gayle]

If you actually believed in the value of RVS, you could still have gained that value while other people are asking random questions.

Except that the argument with you and the RQS completely stopped the RVS.

Yeah you're still not showing us how it's done. Instead you're telling me that you're antagonistic and not to take it personally. I found my scum. It's you.

vote: Gayle

Okay. Whatever. Have fun.

[Wdjat]

I don't think anything of value has really happened since the RVS.

What would be of value to you then?

[kyle99]

Yeah, the post that reeks scum to me right now is post 7. I know everyone has drawn some battle lines and stuff, but I don't really buy into any of it. I don't think anything of value has really happened since the RVS.

unvote vote: wdjat

Really, in the last 2 pages of posts, nothing is giving you any tells? Perhaps you should reread.

[The1fifi]

Has the game advanced at a pace you are happy with? If not why not?
Which player has generated the most attention in your opinion? Is that rightfully so?
Who has remained under the radar? Should they have?
Is there a player who needs to pick up activity? Who?

I think the game is having a slow start, yes.

Ummm, either wdjat/Gayle or lowell.

Dana, and no, she shouldn't

Erm, dana? -.-
.
Your questions are stupid, and have very few of scumhunting.

[Gheb]

Yeah, the post that reeks scum to me right now is post 7.

Elaborate

@Wdjat

"Worried" isn't exactly the word for it. No, I'm not actually "worried" about it but it bothers me still. To me a FoS means more like "hey, people should keep that in mind for later" than "hey that's flat-out scummy". If Gayle continues to be suspicious I will be able to refer back to that point which can be helpful later on. All by itself I don't consider it a scumtell yet either.

[danakillsu]

Elaborate

Alright, and btw, I'm a guy, which I have to point out in every game despite the fact that my gender is below my avatar. I think it's very scummy to immediately say the RVS is over and to back it up by saying that the RVS is useless to town. I don't believe it's useless to town at all.

Really, in the last 2 pages of posts, nothing is giving you any tells? Perhaps you should reread.

Yes, really, and I don't need to reread. I think what has happened recently has been mostly people teaming up against others without any proof.

[Max]

Yes, really, and I don't need to reread. I think what has happened recently has been mostly people teaming up against others without any proof.

Why didn't you mention this then, it is scummy to try and get someone lynched without evidence?

Your questions are stupid, and have very few of scumhunting.

Errr... so you'd consider that your opinion that Dana has stayed under the radar a pointless exercise?

I'm considering it interesting you perceive you being forced to air opinions about activity that you should be giving naturally is stupid. Unless since '08 the way people play mafia has changed dramatically I'm working on the assumption that players being forced to give info is generally a bad sign.

Really, in the last 2 pages of posts, nothing is giving you any tells? Perhaps you should reread.

Really? In the past 2 pages of posts you have revealed no opinions of your own? Really? Perhaps you should do the same.

Except that the argument with you and the RQS completely stopped the RVS.

Yes gayle that is the point, your arguing with the RQS and wdjat (and myself) ended the RVS, he was saying you could still have gained info from your RVS despite the RQS.

@max- I'm trying to insinuate that you're PRETENDING to be more helpful than I. I dont' particularly think I've done anything

world-beating, but it's only page 3.

Yes, at least I'm posting something. 10% is better than 0%.

I believe scum is among:

wdjat
Lowell
kyle99
+ Those not posted anywhere near enough (Tate, Scott, Game and Jacob)

I believe that the following are neutral:
dana
Gheb
Gayle

I believe that the following are town:
The1fifi

[danakillsu]

Why didn't you mention this then, it is scummy to try and get someone lynched without evidence?

I thought it was understood without explicitly being said. The post I mentioned almost seems self-explanatory in its scumminess. I completely agree with and endorse Max's overall reads of people thus far.

[Wdjat]

Except that the argument with you and the RQS completely stopped the RVS.

Yes gayle that is the point, your arguing with the RQS and wdjat (and myself) ended the RVS, he was saying you could still have gained info from your RVS despite the RQS.

That wasn't exactly my point. Gayle could have tried to create a bandwagon and looked for reactions that way while people were answering questions. RVS vs RQS is not the black and white issue that people make it out to be. The two can exist together in the early game. If Gayle had learned the value of RVS through experience after starting from the anti RVS position in his earlier games, I think his views on the subject would be a little more gray.

Also, I don't see how this:

I'm working on the assumption that players being forced to give info is generally a bad sign.

and this:

I believe that the following are town:
The1fifi

jive

[Wdjat]

"Worried" isn't exactly the word for it. No, I'm not actually "worried" about it but it bothers me still. To me a FoS means more like "hey, people should keep that in mind for later" than "hey that's flat-out scummy". If Gayle continues to be suspicious I will be able to refer back to that point which can be helpful later on. All by itself I don't consider it a scumtell yet either.

Okay. This is why I'm not a fan of FoS as a bolded thing. Its meaning is nebulous to different people.

[Wdjat]

Elaborate

Alright, and btw, I'm a guy, which I have to point out in every game despite the fact that my gender is below my avatar. I think it's very scummy to immediately say the RVS is over and to back it up by saying that the RVS is useless to town. I don't believe it's useless to town at all.

Did I say RVS was over, because man I don't see me saying that. I mean, according to Gayle RVS is way serious, so how does saying "serious time begins now" imply that I want RVS to end?

Really, in the last 2 pages of posts, nothing is giving you any tells? Perhaps you should reread.

Yes, really, and I don't need to reread. I think what has happened recently has been mostly people teaming up against others without any proof.

Elaborate