Mini 931: Supreme Court Mafia (Game Over post 682)

[Jack]

Are you going to base your non-random vote off of the answers themselves (as your first post seemed to indicate)? Or am I just extrapolating too much from the juxtaposition of those two phrases?

I think basing a non-random vote off of the answers would be fine.

[jasonT1981]

Setup is interesting I think. The CIA agent is the serial killer obviously, but who are the mafia?

I'm sorry, where did it say that there is a serial killer?

Interesting point there, The set up has not been listed as this is not an open.... So how can Jack know the setup is interesting... unless he actually means the theme...

but yea, nothing on a SK either...

very weird post, Jack care to explain?

[Netopalis]

Unless if it's a big case that everyone learns about in 8th grade Social Students (

Brown v. Board of Education

, etc.) or a case that is especially important to a lawyer's specific field of law (and even then, it'd have to be an incredibly important and/or recent case), nobody here can recite to you the findings of a SC case off of the top of their head, either. I just did a five minute google look-up to see the history of the case - something anyone from anywhere can do, no intricate knowledge of the US Supreme Court needed.

Just off the top of my head - Martin v. Hunter's Lessee - the Supreme Court has the ability to overturn state court decisions where they are in conflict with the constitution, Nixon v. US - There is no executive power for the President to withhold documents except in limited circumstances, The Slaughterhouse Cases - The Privileges and Immunities Clause does not necessarily incorporate all rights of the 14th Amendment as binding on the states. That being said, I'm taking Constitutional Law now.

What's to stop them for parroting someone else's answers? Regardless of whose answers are being parroted, couldn't you just call the parrot out on his parroting? (

parrot parrot parrot parrot

!)

I'm still curious: Are you going to base your non-random vote off of the answers themselves (as your first post seemed to indicate)? Or am I just extrapolating too much from the juxtaposition of those two phrases?

Well, sure, they can parrot somebody else's answers...but I've noticed a unique pattern that sometimes happens when mafia players answer the questions. I'll explain exactly what I'm looking for at the end. While they still could parrot someone else's answers, it doesn't necessarily interfere with what I'm looking for here.

And yes, my first vote will be based on the information gained from answering the questions.

Heading off to W&M in August.

Awesome. I'll IM with you and chat a bit more about it...

[Green Crayons]

Well, sure, they can parrot somebody else's answers...but

I've noticed a unique pattern that sometimes happens when mafia players answer the questions

. I'll explain exactly what I'm looking for at the end.

Well, I wasn't going to answer the questions, but far be it from me to hold up scientific fact finding. I'm on the edge of my proverbial seat for the explanation.

1) How much experience do you have playing Mafia?
2) How would you describe your playstyle?
3) What do you value the most in making decisions in Mafia?
4) Do you expect the Spanish Inquisition?
5) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?
6) How many games are you playing in at the moment?
7) What do you consider to be your greatest strength as town? As mafia?

1) Several years off and on.
2) Varied. Long winded.
3) Logic. Reasoning.
4) I don't like that movie.
5) No preference. I did get my favorite role in this game, though, so that's a plus.
6) As of this morning, only this one.
7) For both: the ability to be well spoken. It generally helps persuade people.

[Yosarian2]

Hey, everyone. Ah, green crayons is in this game, awesome, haven't played with you in a while.

[Battousai]

Vote Count:

Yosarian2 -1- Darox
Bub Bidderskins-1- Fishythefish

Not Voting:

Netopalis, jasonT1981, Yosarian2, pman5595, DarkLightA, Green Crayons, Dry-fit, Jack, Bub Bidderskins, pwnman

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!

[Yosarian2]

1) How much experience do you have playing Mafia?

A bit.

2) How would you describe your playstyle?

Mixed, I guess.

3) What do you value the most in making decisions in Mafia?

I consider everything. It depends.

4) Do you expect the Spanish Inquisition?

NO ONE EXPECTS THE MONTY PYTHON REFERENCE

5) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?

Meh. Varies.

6) How many games are you playing in at the moment?

Um...3 at the moment, a few more starting soon

7) What do you consider to be your greatest strength as town? As mafia?

Winning? Getting vigged as town? Lol.

I donno, depends. I'm good at setup analysis and all that. I'm sometimes really good at scumhunting and sometimes just average; seems to come in streaks. I am usually good at pressuring someone, and good at engaging in debates that give me a lot of information about the other person. As scum...I'm pretty good at not getting lynched (better then I am at that as town, lately) and pretty good at predicting what people are going to do and setting up good endgames; not so great at finding town power roles.

[Netopalis]

I'd really like to hear from Jack and DLA before I post my analysis, but if I don't get anything by lunch, I might go ahead and do it anyway.

[Jack]

1) How much experience do you have playing Mafia?

Quite a bit, around 2 years play on another site and 11 games here on MS, not including 3 mod abandoned games.

2) How would you describe your playstyle?

Varied. Long winded.

3) What do you value the most in making decisions in Mafia?

Gut feeling

4) Do you expect the Spanish Inquisition?

Eh?

5) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?

I prefer playing as scum. The fun part is trying to fool the other people, I find it more enjoyable than trying to not be fooled.

6) How many games are you playing in at the moment?

5, including this one.

7) What do you consider to be your greatest strength as town? As mafia?

I'm usually good at avoiding suspicion, which is helpul for either faction.

[Fishythefish]

Can you please explain this in further detail? It's seems like an overly broad claim that could, on its face, apply to just about any set of answers to the questions; which, in and of themselves, do not seem to really promote "giving [something] away" in answering them.

Sure. BB's answers to a few of the questions are "haven't played enough to say". Which is fine. But it reads to me like he felt this wasn't enough, so he went with much more long-winded answers which said the same thing. Feels like he was worrying about people finding his answers scummy.

[Green Crayons]

Fish: I see. That is to say: I understand your criticism, I agree in the abstract but I don't know if it applies to this situation. But thank you for explaining.

Setup is interesting I think. The CIA agent is the serial killer obviously, but who are the mafia?

I'm sorry, where did it say that there is a serial killer?

I'm still curious where you determined the CIA agent is "obviously" the serial killer?


And hello Yos.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Can you please explain this in further detail? It's seems like an overly broad claim that could, on its face, apply to just about any set of answers to the questions; which, in and of themselves, do not seem to really promote "giving [something] away" in answering them.

Sure. BB's answers to a few of the questions are "haven't played enough to say". Which is fine. But it reads to me like he felt this wasn't enough, so he went with much more long-winded answers which said the same thing. Feels like he was worrying about people finding his answers scummy.

I understand what your saying, but most of those answers came when I was trying to answer questions that I didn't really know the answers to. If it turned out to be a little long-winded, then I'm sorry.

Now, I'm interested to see what Net has to say...

[Fishythefish]

@mod:

in the blurb for this game, there are three roles guaranteed to be in it. For convenience, please could these go in one of the opening posts?

Jack should answer GC's question.

[DarkLightA]

1) How much experience do you have playing Mafia?
About 4 months worth.

2) How would you describe your playstyle?
Used to be pretty anti-town as town, but I'm deciding to change it and give some extra effort from now on.

3) What do you value the most in making decisions in Mafia?
It depends. Much about if the player's just trying to blend in.

4) Do you expect the Spanish Inquisition?
?

5) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town?
Mafia! So much fun =)

6) How many games are you playing in at the moment?
2, and modding 1

7) What do you consider to be your greatest strength as town? As mafia?
Town - active, free-thinking
Scum - tend to (at least used to) have an anti-town playstyle, so that would help disguise it

[DarkLightA]

Setup is interesting I think. The CIA agent is the serial killer obviously, but who are the mafia?

I'm sorry, where did it say that there is a serial killer?

Interesting point there, The set up has not been listed as this is not an open.... So how can Jack know the setup is interesting... unless he actually means the theme...

but yea, nothing on a SK either...

very weird post, Jack care to explain?

You're choosing to hold your comment, Jack?

[Jack]

It will be interesting to see what Netopolis is going to conclude from these answers.

[Netopalis]

Alright. The reasons that I asked each of the questions:


1) How much experience do you have playing Mafia? - 2 reasons: to get an experience read on each player and to start out with an easy question to make the answerer more at ease with answering.

2) How would you describe your playstyle? I asked this because I like to compare what players are saying with what they describe their playstyle as - it helps show where they have to depart from it to paint someone in a wrong light.

3) What do you value the most in making decisions in Mafia? I asked this for the above reason and to also see how willing everybody is to cooperate.

4) Do you expect the Spanish Inquisition? I asked this to throw an easy question in the middle to put the player back at ease again.

5) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town? This helps me read whether a flake is due to not liking the role or to genuine inactivity.

6) How many games are you playing in at the moment? Another easier question, and it also bears on the flaking question.

7) What do you consider to be your greatest strength as town? As mafia? See 3.

I also ask all of these questions to get a read on how each player approaches a problem - specifically, a question presented by a player of unknown alignment. Pro-town players generally answer helpfully while scum often try to avoid the question. Alternatively, scum can try to be extremely overeager to please a player that they know is town-aligned.

My answers are as follows:


1) How much experience do you have playing Mafia? I've played in roughly 15 games since September 2009.

2) How would you describe your playstyle? I favor logic greatly. It's taken me a while to develop my playstyle, as evidenced by my poor 28% win ratio - I blame a lot of this on the fact that the RVS is incredibly poor to my playstyle, hence why I try to start with questions and proceed in a more orderly fashion. I really hate playing by gut - I understand that a certain amount of it is necessary, but I need to be convinced to adopt a position.

3) What do you value the most in making decisions in Mafia? As above, I value logic and reasoning. Often, scum will hide behind vague and uncertain terms, and often scum hate taking firm stances as it locks them down and may open them up to attack later.

4) Do you expect the Spanish Inquisition? As many players noted, nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.

5) Do you prefer playing as mafia or as town? This is a toss-up, in my opinion. I'd actually say that I prefer playing as mafia, just because I actually feel more at ease about making cases, since there's no pressure to be right. That being said, I really enjoy the challenge of town play as well.


6) How many games are you playing in at the moment? I am playing in 6 games and modding 1.

7) What do you consider to be your greatest strength as town? As mafia? As town: a firm, logical style that presents results which are easier to follow than vague gut reads. As mafia: a playstyle that doesn't change much based on alignment and the ability to easily make cases sound good.

Analysis of player answers:
Pwnman: Seems pretty defensive, especially in question 7. Light scum read.
Pman: Overall, good, well-reasoned answers that don't appear to be too deviant in either direction. Light town read.
Darox: I can't shake the feeling that he's hiding something, especially with question 7 - his terse responses indicate that he's trying to be extremely careful about what he says. Scum read.
Bub: Again, it seems that he's hiding something, but I'm not sure if that's just a newbie town read or a scum read. It doesn't seem to be as serious as Darox's. Light scum read.
Dry-fit: While short, his answers don't seem to be trying to hide anything.
Fishy: Good post with some good analysis of the other players' answers at the end. Town read.
Jason: Honest answers that present weaknesses well in a candid way that I wouldn't expect a scum player to use. Town read.
Green crayons: See Dry-fit. The answers are short, but they don't seem to be trying to obfuscate the matter.
Yosarian: Until Q7, he's extremely short, but his answer to 7 is pretty open and honest. Light town read.
Jack: Very short, hard to read. Due to the SK comment, I'm going to put him at a light scum read.
DLA: Null, honestly, I could see his answers coming from either faction.

To recap, my inital reads are:

Town:
Green Crayons
Dry-fit
Fishy
Jason

Light town:
Pman
Yosarian

Null:
DLA

Light scum:
Pwnman
Bub
Jack

Scum:
Darox

Vote: Darox

Please note that these are just initial reads based on flimsy evidence. They will vary widely in the early game until they solidify later.

[Jack]

Hmm. I guess Net didn't notice that I didn't answer any of the questions myself--I copied and pasted the answers of other people.

[Bub Bidderskins]

Hmm. I guess Net didn't notice that I didn't answer any of the questions myself--I copied and pasted the answers of other people.

Care to explain why you copy and pasted instead of actually answering the questions?

[Bub Bidderskins]

I forgot to

vote: Jack

.

[Jack]

Hmm. I guess Net didn't notice that I didn't answer any of the questions myself--I copied and pasted the answers of other people.

Care to explain why you copy and pasted instead of actually answering the questions?

I was skimming all the other answers and thought to myself "no one is really reading these". So I figured I'd test my theory and check how closely Netopolis was reading them too.

[Jack]

I forgot to

vote: Jack

.

Explain what you think is suspicious about my copy and paste.

[Netopalis]

Interesting. Why did you choose to do that?

[Jack]

Interesting. Why did you choose to do that?

I was skimming all the other answers and thought to myself "no one is really reading these". So I figured I'd test my theory and check how closely Netopolis was reading them too.

Why do you think you missed it?

[pwnman]

What the hell Jack! You just copied and pasted everyone else's answers?

vote jack