Newbie 922: Day 3

[Nachomamma8]

Ridiculous Activity + Overaggressiveness + Being an Asshole = My Town Meta

OH SNAP



On a somewhat related note, Acosmist should post once that hangover wears off...

Votecount

Not Voting - 5 (Acosmist, Furry, Elementary Fermion, Nachomamma8, Ellibereth)

With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch.

[Furry]

EF still hasnt responded to any of my points. given that im in finals week, have admittedly been putting up less that I should, and still have made more of a case than anyone else, something is wrong.

People need to make cases.

Im voting tomorrow, after that my chances of posting anything of content before deadline are practically zero due to three finals in under 48 hours.

[Elementary Fermion]

EF still hasnt responded to any of my points.

If I saw I any "points" I gladly would. Do you mean this:

Am I correct that a no lynch on this Day will be a scum vistory? Because that would suck. What a stupid way for this game to end.

You still think Eli is scum? Can you give a few bullet points as why? Maybe respond to past page stuff I said about you.

There you are asking for information, but I do not see you as making any points. I still think, for the reasons mentioned in my previous five (5) posts, that Ellibereth's deflection and lack of transparency regarding his statistical methods are quite suspicious. You do not have to agree; throwing out random stuff and refusing to be held to account for it might be the way you like to play. Have fun with that.

Or did you mean this:

Eventually yes, but early on in a phase, its not always necesary, as you eventually can back up the assertion im fine with doing that. Makes people react somewhat differently when they are not sure if you have a case, cop guilty, etc.

That sort of is a point, but I did respond to it. To wit:

Eventually yes, but early on in a phase, its not always necesary, as you eventually can back up the assertion im fine with doing that. . . .

It's almost like

I

was making this point. I guess "eventually" does not mean "within 5 weeks" in your book. So I guess maybe I should have been more clear. But not really, cause it does not matter, at least not in this game.

So, I guess you could be referring to this:

a) Arent the results all that matters
b) what?
c) Why is changing suspects/thought process scummy
d) Why is this bad? I will throw out entire trains of thought and plans all the time.

I know its not the best case from me, but when I almost expect EF to be voting Eli at any point, its really lacking strength.

Looking through votecounts, it more or less backs up my EF-nacho pairing, although I still prefer the EF lynch.

So, I guess I will respond to it. Again.

(a)

a) Arent the results all that matters

Are you serious? Such bald assertions cannot even be called “results” without providing some sort of methodology. I thought you seemed bright enough to realize that. Also, as he does not even stick to his own “results” I would imagine that should throw a little more doubt on such “results.”

But since you apparently disagree, try this: I have this super secret method that I refuse to share with you. It says you are guilty. BOOM! Do not questions my

results

because they are all that matters.

(b) Use Google. You may have heard of it. It looks things up on the internet. Start your query with "define:" and it will retrieve only definitions for you. That way, when I convey precisely the point I am making, because words (in English no less!) exist to precisely cover the concept, if you are uncertain what they mean you can look them up. I did not explicitly mention this earlier because I thought it was obvious.

(c)

a) Arent the results all that matters

Are you serious? Such bald assertions cannot even be called “results” without providing some sort of methodology. I thought you seemed bright enough to realize that.

Also, as he does not even stick to his own “results”

[after, as you recall, he told us how accurate and certain and everything else they are]

I would imagine that should throw a little more doubt on such “results.”

But since you apparently disagree, try this: I have this super secret method that I refuse to share with you. It says you are guilty. BOOM! Do not questions my

results

because they are all that matters.

Bolded by me for your convenience. The italics are added in to flesh out the concept that you missed the first time you read my response.

(d)

Also, as he does not even stick to his own “results”

[after, as you recall, he told us how accurate and certain and everything else they are]

I would imagine that should throw a little more doubt on such “results.”

Changing trains of thought is fine. That is not what Ellibereth has done--not by a long shot. He burst into a game that was already quite underway and announced publicly that he was not going to bother to actually read what has gone on in the game because he can just look at voting patterns and determine exactly what is going on. He then announced his findings. That sounds great, except he then abandoned all of this alleged work when asked about his methods. That is not " throw[ing] out entire trains of thought and plans[.]" That is getting called on BS and hiding one's head in the sand. Slight difference, there.

I at one point grew suspicious of Panacea for what sounded like her wanting a modkill. My train of thought changed when I realized she had a non-scum justification for her sentiments. That is different from announcing to the world that I have some sort of super magical statistical prowess, announcing its results, but abandoning them rather than explaining my methods when asked.

Also, what exactly are you "planning" in this game? I would imagine that only the individuals with the ability to communicate at night would be able to "plan" or "throw out . . . plans."

. . . I still prefer the EF lynch.

Why do you want the town to lose?

[Acosmist]

Okay, lemme address your "case".

Scare quotes for maximum condescension.

Awesome!

Re: Copfishing:
Okay. Let me put that into perspective for you.

Please, dumb it down.

Because I am just such an idiot.

First of all, I had special reason to believe Cojin's doctor claim because of my reading of his previous games, where a VT claimed doc and screwed over their chances of winning. So, after seeing Cojin saw firsthand the reasons why VT claiming powerrole is an idiot manuever, wouldn't it make sense to you if I realized that he wouldn't do that himself?

I had no inkling that a townie, especially in one of these games, would intentionally fakeclaim a power role to try to fool the mafia. It seems to me like a terrible idea. I've already said, with my contract bridge comments from forever ago, how trying to box clever has a much better chance of fooling the town than the mafia. So I really just didn't consider the possibility. I wondered why anyone did think this guy could be fakeclaiming doctor. And when it was brought up (Cojin himself found it necessary to laugh off the insinuation that he was fakeclaiming doc) I went back over that day...and what you said became sinister rather than just dumb. Because, I mean, no townie really wants the cop to claim right after the doc has claimed, so, at BEST, it's dumb.

Secondly, check again (just for shits and giggles), how long we had before deadline. If I was going to copfish as scum, why would I do it when no one had a freaking chance to respond?

I want to care about this but it's all WIFOM, so, you know, no.

WIFOM is classic scumtellicious stuff.

I am shocked you even tried it. Scumlor.

Re: Inconsistencies:
Okay. The secret's out. People aren't inconsistent.

Typo much?

Sometimes I look up and I don't want to read your wallposts, otherwise I realize that the content in this thread is 0% and your wallposts are nice to see.

OK, but if you get that you have all the caprice of a woman, then you must also get how horrible it is to rely on the "well I'm just absurdly moody" card.

Now, it's your turn to explain why the hell that's scummy.

Being capricious is not scummy. But I've noticed that your shtick this game has been to complain about how much content I am bringing, then to complain how tiny my wallposts are, then to complain about my content again. Content is good. Assuming, arguendo, that my wallposts are not entirely useful, they at least express my opinion and offer chances for others to react to my opinion. In some sense, they pin me down to something. If someone replies, he may express an opinion to which he can be pinned down. If someone ignores the wallposts, that might be a scummy attempt to evade the topic of discussion. On the whole, I think my wallposts were a good thing. They got me on the record and they forced other people to take a stand.

Why would anyone want to suppress that?

Re: EF attack:
It's scummy to misunderstand someone?

what

Let's see... I thought that people weren't both angry and bored at the same time.

Yeah, that was dumb of you.

EF thought that people wouldn't be as loyal to the site as Panacea was.

Oh, you're trying the moral equivalence fallacy.

Cool. :/

So... it's scummy when I incorrectly assume, but it isn't when EF does? Congratulations, that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Yeah your behavior was totally comparable to what EF did

protip: no

Happy, Acosmist? If not, feel free to respond buddy. We got six whole days.

Do we? I dunno, hopefully you don't epic-lurk and have to get prodded between now and the deadline.

You're not lurking? That's news to me.

You are grasping at straws. The noose is tightening. I know how that feels. It's all right. Maybe your scumbuddy will trick us tomorrow.

You haven't really provided anything close to useful in a while.

I'm ok with what I've provided.

NACHO AND ELLI ARE OBVSCUM LYNCH THEM LOL is pretty much all I've gotten out of you today.

That's all you've gotten. But aren't you scum anyway?

I can see why you'd be flailing.

Can you do something less predicatable and more productive, please?

Did you predict I would post too much and then too little and then too much?

You're flailing again.

I think it's okay for people to miss the entire last week of a three week deadline because Reality > Mafia.

If that were true, wouldn't you want an extension so that reality and mafia could coexist in peace and harmony?

In addition, we would've got the extension if we were more active so it's most definitely our faults for being screwed by deadline, not just Elli's.

So if we just spammed uselessly while we waited for him, we would get an extension.

All right. Way to cover for your buddy, there.

Trying to paint it any other way denotes a problem with accepting responsibility or a role pm that says "I win when the town is dead".

LOL

That's how weakening works, logically. Like, I could say "Either I am Acosmist or Obama was born in Kenya." You can introduce any disjunct together with an obviously true one, and the resulting disjunction will be true.

But why would you say it? There's a general principle in human conversation: Assert the strongest information. Your disjunction introduction tries to get us seriously to consider that I am scum...because you dearly wish people seriously considered that. More flailing.

Nice try, though. I am sorry I am so good at logic and swatted that attempt down.

Hmm... your last line sounds strangely overconfident, but it lacks a vote. Why is this?

Do you really not know?

Are you not as confident as you say you are? Or are you scum afraid of attracting all the attention to just the two of us...?

whaaaaaaaaat

I am afraid of attracting attention to you?

That is why I am attacking you?

wwwwwwwhaaaaaaaaat

[Acosmist]

Prod Acosmist please.

In Magic: the Gathering, we call this rules-lawyering.

[Acosmist]

Are you gonna start playing to your town meta now...? Or should I just start looking for your partner?

I don't think I'm playing to either meta right now.
And ARE YOU GOING TO START PLAYING TO YOUR TOWN META OR SHOULD I BE LOOKING FOR YOUR PARTNER.

OH SCHNAP.

It is so weird that you ignore everything I say.

Like, just, totally ignore it.

[Nachomamma8]

I want to care about this but it's all WIFOM, so, you know, no.

WIFOM is classic scumtellicious stuff.

No, I'm pointing out that I didn't have a scum motive there. That's not WIFOM... Although, cheaply deflecting my point is noted.

Why would anyone want to suppress that?

Because there is a such thing as too many wallposts. Sure, they do offer the chance for people to react to your opinion, but they also offer the chance not to react. Seriously, look back at all your wallposts, and look who responded when the wallposts weren't directed at them... Also, it puts you in a blatant tunneling mode where you simply won't see when you're wrong, as soon to be demonstrated by my lynch.

[quote="Acosmist']
Yeah your behavior was totally comparable to what EF did

protip: no
[/quote]
Explain.

If that were true, wouldn't you want an extension so that reality and mafia could coexist in peace and harmony?

Never said I didn't want an extension. I'm just saying that I agree the mod's decision.

Do you really not know?

Why else would I ask...?

In Magic: the Gathering, we call this rules-lawyering.

what is this i dont even

[Acosmist]

Ridiculous Activity

+ Overaggressiveness + Being an Asshole = My Town Meta

Seriously? A confession?

No, I'm pointing out that I didn't have a scum motive there. That's not WIFOM... Although, cheaply deflecting my point is noted.

"Why would I, as scum, do that?" is what WIFOM is. You try to get townie cred for doing something so ballsy, "no scum would ever do that!"

I don't think WIFOM is a huge scumtell, but it definitely invalidates your hope for townie cred entirely. That is why I pointed it out, and why I'm ignoring it.

I think you might be a bad enough player to think that argument would fly. It doesn't. Logically, it can't. Then scum would be able to make bad scum moves on purpose with impunity.

This is so basic, man.

Because there is a such thing as too many wallposts.

In the abstract, yes, there is a wallpost limit beyond which the game becomes unreasonable. Before that, though, the relevance of the posts to the game controls whether there are too many.

Sure, they do offer the chance for people to react to your opinion, but they also offer the chance not to react. Seriously, look back at all your wallposts, and look who responded when the wallposts weren't directed at them...

You sure are blaming me for what other people did.

Also, it puts you in a blatant tunneling mode where you simply won't see when you're wrong, as soon to be demonstrated by my lynch.

Yes, my wallposts against Furry earlier and my continued mention of Ellibereth, all while calling for Furry to make any case on EF (who has never seemed scummy to me) make this argument with you tunneling!

Explain.

EF was a soft target when you attacked him. Even Panacea was on him. You had plausible deniability. EF jumped on Panacea because she favored a policy lynch on him, and he got no traction with that.

Moral equivalence fallacy FAIL

Never said I didn't want an extension. I'm just saying that I agree the mod's decision.

Pan, stop sucking up to the mod >.>

Why else would I ask...?

you do not know what lynch or lose is

ok

what is this i dont even

An analogy :teach:

At this point, I am going to go over Ellibereth's posts and see if there is some chance your fight with him was genuine, which would tell in your favor.

[Furry]

So I have a final in under an hour and another in about 20 hours. Im going to make this quick and hopefully flesh it out after tomorrows final

Vote EF

(will respond with continued points tomorrow)

I dont have near enough confidence to vote nacho even though I think that he is the partner to EF here. So im sticking with what I think the right move is. The fact that everyone but me wants Eli lynched makes me think he is town. Asc could work with EF, but I think nacho works better.

We have about 24 hours left in this day, step it up people.

[Elementary Fermion]

Hey Furry, make a case why not? You know, like Acosmist is doing against Nacho and I am doing against Ellibereth. Or, you know, just vote for a town loss. Why are you doing that again? Is it because Ellibereth is your scumbuddy? That would make sense.

[Elementary Fermion]

Oh, and this is rich:

Im going to make this quick and

hopefully

flesh it out after tomorrows final

Well, that sounds reasonable, except it is followed by:

We have about 24 hours left in this day, step it up people.

How does that saying go? Physician, heal thyself? Your case on me is . . . what again? That would be a good thing to discuss with people.

[Furry]

Oh, and this is rich:

Im going to make this quick and

hopefully

flesh it out after tomorrows final

Well, that sounds reasonable, except it is followed by:

We have about 24 hours left in this day, step it up people.

How does that saying go? Physician, heal thyself? Your case on me is . . . what again? That would be a good thing to discuss with people.

Well you are in luck! I crushed my dynamics final so am an hour an a half ahead of schedual. Working on stuff now. Also its not my fault that deadline is on the day of my last final.

[Elementary Fermion]

Well you are in luck! I crushed my dynamics final so am an hour an a half ahead of schedual. Working on stuff now. Also its not my fault that deadline is on the day of my last final.

Since I am also working on a final (at this exact moment actually) I do feel your pain. However, it is more difficult to excuse your refusal to build a case during the past three weeks. No one put you in this situation but you.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll respond later.

And look, no scum quickhammer from me!

[Acosmist]

I'll respond later.

And look, no scum quickhammer from me!

haha

wait EF has one vote on him

are you really unable to count to three

[Furry]

Im just going to do a little spring cleaning...

a) I like all the numbers that he gave us. Its quite a bit of information that does have some basis behind it and some corellation to alignment. I dont think im missing what you are talking about, but I dont see what it can be apart from interactionfest.

b) I may be losing something in my definitions but I dont see what you are talking about as a scumtell. Im really bad with words though, you may notice that very few of mine go over the three syllable mark.

c) Whats wrong with changing your mind over a read? Usually in a game I go through several stages of throwing out past theories and ideas that I was sure of to move on to the next one. I would be more concerned if he was pushing wagons in lylo solely on these interactions.

d) Im starting to wonder how much of this is us simply not agreeing with theory. In fact im going to

unvote

given how much nachos "not hammering" post put me on edge

continuing though.

I just see what Eli did there as suddenly becoming very unsure of what he was putting up, or getting a conflicting read, or something. The only way I think he can be scum by this is if he suddenly realized it was implicating his partner so decided to ditch it.

~~~~~

Now more studying. May be back for a late night post

[Elementary Fermion]

c) Whats wrong with changing your mind over a read? Usually in a game I go through several stages of throwing out past theories and ideas that I was sure of to move on to the next one. I would be more concerned if he was pushing wagons in lylo solely on these interactions.

It was not a read. It was a calculation -- a calculation to which he wholeheartedly subscribed until questioned on it. He then abandoned it and acted as if it never happened.

Recap: What he did was not a read. In fact, he bragged about how he would not actually read anything that predated his arrival.

So yes, Furry, obviously you can change your mind over a read. If that were what he did, that would be one thing. But he did not.

[Furry]

grrrr.....
Im stuck right now.

I really dont think that Eli is town, which means scum is in EF/nacho/asc and I have asc as a fairly decent town read as well. I just really got bad vibes from nacho and asc when I put my vote down on EF, especially what nacho said. It just sounded like very poor "hey im here to hammer" talk, but again asc posted so it does mean that asc-nacho probably arent scum together or they would have missed a golden opportunity.

That again makes me interested in an EF lynch since that would mean he has to be scum, then in comes paranoia of Eli being scum and just completely playing me at this point. If Eli is scum though he has to at least be getting somewhat bussed, but none of the three pushing him show a clear second suspects which is careless if they are bussing...

Ok

Vote EF

Im not as sure as I would like to be, but I have a final tomorrow and may not get access untill after deadline, its a four hour final and deadline is 210 minutes into it. So far ive finished two of three finals early but this one could be tough. If I dont have a vote out though it becomes impossible for town to actually win this unless scum decide to bus.

Nothing else seems to work.

Others should actually vote sometime soon.

[Ellibereth]

Hey, Furry. Only one thing right now is making me doubt my read of You/Nacho. I'm curious, can you guess what it is? (No is not answer )

[Furry]

no clue

join in EF lynch?

[Ellibereth]

Pretend you're me.
What would the ideal play be for a Furry/Nacho scumteam.

[Furry]

Pretend you're me.
What would the ideal play be for a Furry/Nacho scumteam.

Either passively or actively support your lynch?

I dunno, I would have probably just bussed nacho yesterday if I was scum with him and tried to get the entire fitz wagon mislynched in succession for the win.

[Acosmist]

OK, the Nacho/Ellibereth fight never really got anywhere. With a DAY to go, neither votes the other. Calling it fake.

Furry, I simply cannot get behind an EF lynch. Your vote is wasted.

Ellibereth, reaaaaaaaaaal quick, why aren't you scum?

[Acosmist]

Or, you know, not.

Hopefully we don't lose due to no lynch.

Vote: Nachomamma8

[Phate]

The day ends in no lynch! Scum win!

Acosmist and Furry were mafia. Cojin was your doctor. The rest were townies.