Mini 953: Star Control: Alliance Initiative (Over)

[bouncy.bouncy]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 7

Dry-fit

- 2 - Gammagooey, Porkens - (L-5)

Gammagooey

- 1 - Riceballtail - (L-6)

Kast

- 1 - Dry-fit - (L-6)

Papa Zito

- 2 - CF Riot, cruelty - (L-5)

Plum

- 1 - Merkabah - (L-6)

Porkens

- 1 - Plum - (L-6)

Riceballtail

- 1 - animorpherv1 - (L-6)

Players not voting: bouncy.bouncy, Kast, Papa Zito

bouncy's ignored both the questions and my first vote on him (even though it was random) and needs to say why.

I wasn't extremely excited to answer the questions, and I figured you were asking them to pull us out of random voting, so I thought you'd be satisfied with the number of answers you'd gotten by the time I read your post. Do you still want me to answer those questions?

I "ignored" your vote by default. I don't see any reason to respond to it. Why do I have to respond to random votes on me but not to random votes on everybody else?

[Papa Zito]

Uh I don't really have any solid conclusions from it, the closest thing to it would probably be that I find bouncy scummier than before.

Why?

[Kast]

@Merkabah-
Scum (more specifically mafia) have more information than town. Town won't know if either Zito OR Plum is town/other. If Zito is mafia, they know exactly what he is doing/saying. If Plum is mafia, they know Zito has something wrong with him. If neither is mafia, then the mafia "know" with greater confidence that Zito is telling the truth about Plum.

Less likely but additionally, mafia could have a role that suggests how Zito could know Plum's affiliation.

@Gammah-
Promoting discussion is good. Promoting discussion about pure theory is not always good. It sometimes makes it easier for scum to actively lurk.

In our case, you may have helped RBT with some active lurking. I want to hear a reason behind RBT's vote. I've played as scum with RBT (MKMII) and active lurking as a strategy was heavily abused. I actually thought we'd played more than once, but I can't find any other games.

[Gammagooey]

@bouncy-The only question I still care about is why you chose not to random vote.

@Zito- Because I don't see withholding that information as good townie behavior. If you don't think it's worth answering then you should say that a la CF, not ignore the questions and assume that it's not important that you answer them.

[cruelty]

Sorry

Thurs/Fri my time (gmt+12) = ultra busy.

Somewhat belatedly;

Who here have you enjoyed/not enjoyed playing with before and why?

If you're not voting, why not?

Do you think that voting/not random voting has any indication on alignment?

1: No personal issues, didn't really enjoy the game I played w. you and Zito (my fault through terrible play though,). Porkens is the only other player here I've completed a game with (ignoring Amished since he's only 50% here). But overall no problems with any of you, ya'll seem chill.

2: n/a

3: No.


Dunno about this Zito/Plum thing. I think Zito is just a weird dude with some special powers so I'm not stressing about it, I'm gonna be philosophical and assume that it'll all work itself out down the track a ways.

[CF Riot]

@Gammah-
Promoting discussion is good. Promoting discussion about pure theory is not always good. It sometimes makes it easier for scum to actively lurk.

Agreed.

Just realized, Zito why would I be voting Gamma? I kind of assumed you were voting him when you asked me but apparently not.

Rice, why are you voting him right now?

[bouncy.bouncy]

@bouncy-The only question I still care about is why you chose not to random vote.

Alright. I never random vote because I think it's unnecessary. I was introduced to mafia on a different website and there we always began D1 by discussing town strategy for the game, and that usually led to some real votes. Coming here and seeing RVS, I just lurk until people turn out scummy based on something other than random votes.

[Merkabah]

I'm not sure what to think of Zito calling Plum town. I've never played with either of them. Maybe Zito is just talking and it means nothing. Maybe he knows something and he's being serious. Maybe he knows something but he's lying. It's hard to tell this early on. But since all I can do right now is guess, that one comment doesn't mean enough to me to not vote for him.

As he's stated several times, it's serious. I'm not sure how you've missed this, but I ask you again if this affects your read.

Rice, why are you voting him right now?

Except, she is......so.......

Unvote, Vote: animorph

How's that lurking going for you Mr. normally active?

[Riceballtail]

Rice, why are you voting him right now?

Hunch.

[Porkens]

Rice, why are you voting him right now?

Hunch.

Back.

Sorry, my mom is in town this weekend, hooboy did we create a whirlwind of activity!


I say we cut Zito open and see how he knows that Plum is town.

unvote. Vote: Pappa Zito

[Dry-fit]

Unvote. Vote: bouncy.bouncy.

Failing to answer questions is scummy. As you said, the purpose of Gamma's questioning was to move us out of rvs. By refusing to answer, you're making it harder to get a read on you.

Coming here and seeing RVS, I just lurk until people turn out scummy based on something other than random votes.

So I take it you don't have any suspicions yet?

[CF Riot]

As he's stated several times, it's serious. I'm not sure how you've missed this, but I ask you again if this affects your read.

I'm not sure what to think of Zito calling Plum town.

<snip>

Maybe he knows something

and he's being serious.

Maybe

he knows something but

he's lying. It's hard to tell this early on.

I thought this pretty much answered your question but I'll try to clarify. Zito made a claim, but right now there's no way to know whether it's true or not. On top of that, if I assume it

is

true, even then it only means Plum is town. It doesn't say anything about Zito. He could be scum randomly picking someone not in his group to call town. He could really have some info about Plum and her alignment, but still be scum or town himself. This all seemed obvious to me from the get go. So yeah, the claim is weird. Yeah, it makes me want to keep an eye on Zito. But no, it doesn't really tell me anything about his alignment right now.

Rice is active lurking. A "hunch" isn't good enough. I know there are other fairly inactive people right now too, but personally I think active lurking is worse than not posting.

I also don't like Dry's vote on Bouncy. It seems weak and forced.

Porkens, what raised your suspicion of Zito or lowered your suspicion of Dry to change your vote?

[Porkens]

boredom and restlessness.

[bouncy.bouncy]

Coming here and seeing RVS, I just lurk until people turn out scummy based on something other than random votes.

So I take it you don't have any suspicions yet?

Right.

I don't really agree with Kast getting called out for asking Zito about his Plum connection, but I think the people who did that are just misapplying tells and not trying to frame Kast.

[Papa Zito]

Just realized, Zito why would I be voting Gamma? I kind of assumed you were voting him when you asked me but apparently not.

I was writing a post out to answer this question, but then I saw some later stuff and realized you're scum. Sweet.

vote: CF Riot

[Gammagooey]

Papa- You ask me to explain my questionaire thing to the smallest detail and then you don't even tell us why you're voting CF? What?

[Papa Zito]

Tell me what you think of 111, Gamma.

[Gammagooey]

I think that it doesn't matter what I think considering that you're the one that's voting him, but i'm going to share JUST FOR YOU.

It looks like overthinking and overexplaining, but I don't see that as a reasoning for why he's scum.

What do YOU think about 111?

[Papa Zito]

Let's look deeper.

CF talks about three players in 111.

1.

But no, it doesn't really tell me anything about [Papa Zito's] alignment right now.

2.

Rice is active lurking. A "hunch" isn't good enough. I know there are other fairly inactive people right now too, but personally I think active lurking is worse than not posting.

3.

I also don't like Dry's vote on Bouncy. It seems weak and forced.

He lists RBT as active lurking and says Dry-fit's vote is "weak and forced". One would assume that he's mentioning these things because he thinks they're scummy.

So why isn't he voting the scummy people instead of the neutral?

[CF Riot]

False. I said the Plum thing was a null on you until I got more info. I didn't say I didn't think you were scum. Now I will admit that the original reason I have for looking at you is other people bringing you up, and not something you've done yourself. It was not the strongest vote. But you currently have the most votes and it's early game, so all those factors combined make me comfortable leaving a vote on you.

So was there ever a reason to vote Gamma? Whether you think I'm scum or not, I feel like that was an honest question and I'd love to hear an answer.

[Papa Zito]

False. I said the Plum thing was a null on you until I got more info. I didn't say I didn't think you were scum. Now I will admit that the original reason I have for looking at you is other people bringing you up, and not something you've done yourself. It was not the strongest vote. But you currently have the most votes and it's early game, so all those factors combined make me comfortable leaving a vote on you.

So you feel that "other people mentioning me" makes me more likely scum than RBT's "active lurking" and Dry-fit's "weak and forced" vote on bouncy.bouncy?

So was there ever a reason to vote Gamma? Whether you think I'm scum or not, I feel like that was an honest question and I'd love to hear an answer.

Same general thing. You say Gamma's pop quiz is weak and not valuable but your vote stayed put.

[Papa Zito]

DEAR TOWN,

Reminder: This is a BaM game with short deadlines. I believe we have about a week left. The slow pace of this game is only benefiting scum. Please start posting.


Love,

PZ

[Porkens]

I'll hammer anyone at L-1.

[Gammagooey]

Do we even have enough active people to GET a lynch? This is rediculous.

Vote:animorpherv1

The dirtiest lurker by far, although I could go for Dry, bouncy, riceball, or cruelty too.
Also, if at all possible I'd like the hammer vote. Role-related reasons.

[Merkabah]

Apologies for not posting yesterday, my office was moving all day and Amished is V/LA atm. I'll try my best to get something up today even though the move continues.