Newbie 940 - Game over

[Pulindar]

I'd just like to say, that I don't like the way either of them have gone about things. I think there is a good possibility that [no] got worried and was bussing his partner, or maybe just distancing. I dunno. Still, suspicious.

IC notice

Bussing v.s. Distancing Bussing is voting your scum partner to the point that the town lynches them. It is a common tactic used by scum to accrue town credit. Distancing is based on a similar idea, but is merely arguing against your partner to make it seem as though you are on different teams. Distancing may also be placing a vote on your partner that you think is unlikely to help bring about their lynch.

FoS [no] & Die Prediger

@ AV: yeah, I think three people have yet to post. Hiphop (SE) Jerako (New) and Nacho (IC)

For the next few hours I'm going to be silent, I want more people to join first. I will answer game questions though, if need be.

Vote Nacho

My random vote is back in place until more people join in conversation.

[Die Prediger]

Both Mafia had already voted in me, so they couldnt give the final vote? And not giving it, assuming the one that could've give it was the mafia???

I'm not quite sure what you're asking here...

he's asking if you thought of the four people on him two were mafia.

Die Prediger probably (though I won't say for sure) thought your vote was on him.

Yes, thanks, Pulindar.

And sorry AV! Afterall, you DID the right thing. You called attention for it. Would a Mafia tell something about it? I doubt. The mafia would just stay away, pretending that did not see it.

And that makes me even more suspicious on [no]. Why did he got me at L-1? And regarding the same question, were the 2 mafias already voting in me?

Or they couldnt see it to give the final vote? That would make a player who still didnt post a mafia?

[Die Prediger]

I'd just like to say, that I don't like the way either of them have gone about things. I think there is a good possibility that [no] got worried and was bussing his partner, or maybe just distancing. I dunno. Still, suspicious.

FoS [no] & Die Prediger

You are imagining too much, dont you think? I could say you are doing the exact same thing with [no], when you say we can be partners, you are distancing yourself from him. Am I wrong?

[silverbullet999]

Hrmmm these past few hours have been interesting. Though I'd like to hear the other players soon.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Official "OMG You People Talk A Lot!" Vote Count

[no] - 2 (AurorusVox, Thor665)
Die Prediger - 2 (silverbullet999, [no])
Thor665 - 1 (Die Prediger)
Nachomamma8 - 1 (Pulindar)

Not Voting - 3 (hiphop, Jerako, Nachomamma8)

5 to Lynch.

Deadline

is the end of Tuesday, May 4.

[Pulindar]

Official "OMG You People Talk A Lot!" Vote Count

Anon accuses me of being a Mastin alt. (I am not) hehe

Back to waiting.

[Jerako]

Pleased to meet you, everybody. You all have the distinct honor of being in my second mafia game ever. I sure hope there aren't any Cliquey's in this game.

And AV, it's a pleasure to be playing with you again. I noticed that somebody referred to you as "she" though, and I thought you were a guy during the whole of our first game. Which is it, if you don't mind my asking? I'd like to get my pronouns right. Or, if you don't care, I'll simply keep using "he".

---

I'd like to ask a few questions, even though we seem to be out of RVS already.

@Experienced players:
Do you prefer playing as mafia or town, and why?

From the threads I was trying to read inbetween my last game ending and this one, I've come to the conclusion that there really is no such thing as a "scumtell". As in, there's never something that you can look at and say "He did X, so he's definitely scum". Would you agree? Whether you do or not, what is your personal approach to scumhunting?

@Newer players
It's my understanding that nobody here is in their first game ever. What mistakes did you make in your previous games, if any, and what did you learn from them?

---

And finally, @[no]:

Partially, yes. But I won't bandwagon if i don't think it has any sense to it. I also thought that possibly the previous users who were voted before him were potential scum and therefore didn't want to vote for them, but then i realized i was one of them (and i am not scum) so...

What I meant by that is now i question the decision.

There however is also Die putting some kind of FOS on Aurorus for answering a question intended for someone else. Or is that just paranoia?

You seem to be suggesting that you wouldn't have placed your vote on DP without being quite certain that he's scum. You have given two reasons, the first, being that his avoidance of L-3 is a scumtell. And the second, which is quoted here. What do you think of the opinions that have been raised that your first point is a weak one? Also, you yourself seem to be unsure of the validity of your second point as well. Are you questioning this decision, also?

[silverbullet999]

@Newer players
It's my understanding that nobody here is in their first game ever. What mistakes did you make in your previous games, if any, and what did you learn from them?

This is my first game ever technically, I played a game of drug dealer once with a group of about 15 or so people... though I don't think that counts.

[Thor665]

Hrmmm these past few hours have been interesting. Though I'd like to hear the other players soon.

I do hope you include yourself on that list. Here's a question for you to help you in that process; Whom do you currently find most scummy and why?

@Experienced players:
Do you prefer playing as mafia or town, and why?

From the threads I was trying to read inbetween my last game ending and this one, I've come to the conclusion that there really is no such thing as a "scumtell". As in, there's never something that you can look at and say "He did X, so he's definitely scum". Would you agree? Whether you do or not, what is your personal approach to scumhunting?

By dint of my slot, if not my personal opinion, I shall presume these are the questions you intended for me.

1. It is hard to say because I've only been Mafia once and I don't really believe that game counts since I was replacing in and the game was decided before my first post.

2. Every single individual scumtell I've ever seen is subjective, not objective. As such, there is no master blueprint of what is or is not scummy other then what the individual player believes is so.

String enough individuals together however and you can actually do pretty well in looking for scum since there are certain patterns that by dint of their role they are obligated to live by. Patterns are scummy, and scumtells are subjective would thus be my more concise answer.

My personal approach to scumhunting is to ask a lot of questions and force opinions into the open.

Here's two questions for you;

1. What do you see as the benefit in asking generic theory questions to players as opposed to specific questions about the game? Asking me these generic questions will bring you no closer to getting a read on my actions in this game, and whether I am scum or town I am likely to answer them the same way. What's the gain?

2. Why no vote yet? Do you not think any useful information has come forth at this point?

[AurorusVox]

Jerako, I'm a he, but I find it funny when people call me a she. I don't know why, but it happens a lot on mafia ._."

I won't answer the question about "my" last game since you were there too ^^

[[no]]

And finally, @[no]:

Partially, yes. But I won't bandwagon if i don't think it has any sense to it. I also thought that possibly the previous users who were voted before him were potential scum and therefore didn't want to vote for them, but then i realized i was one of them (and i am not scum) so...

What I meant by that is now i question the decision.

There however is also Die putting some kind of FOS on Aurorus for answering a question intended for someone else. Or is that just paranoia?

You seem to be suggesting that you wouldn't have placed your vote on DP without being quite certain that he's scum. You have given two reasons, the first, being that his avoidance of L-3 is a scumtell. And the second, which is quoted here. What do you think of the opinions that have been raised that your first point is a weak one? Also, you yourself seem to be unsure of the validity of your second point as well. Are you questioning this decision, also?

The second one I think could be a FOS is because it's an obvious superfluous accusation [IMO]. But I don't think that's enough to make a decision.

as for the first reason, Thor states that he thinks my decision was a matter of 'trust', and it isn't. He also states he could be scum and is trying to get rid of Die, which is definitely possible.

I'm going to unvote for now

Unvote

[silverbullet999]

Well I threw in the RVS on die initally so I feel I've contributed a tiny bit : P. (Though I will be a little busy this week until Thursday night because of some upcoming tests.)

I do hope you include yourself on that list. Here's a question for you to help you in that process; Whom do you currently find most scummy and why?

I guess I would currently say die but only in the slightest. Simply from his reaction to your questioning. If die ended up getting lynched and it was shown he was a townie (Death's show whom that person was, right?) Then I would be somewhat suspicious of you and no. You for starting the flame against him and no for the vote with no reason.

[Thor665]

I'm going to unvote for now

Do you or do you not still suspect Die is scum?

If you do, why unvote?
If you don't what did he do to change your mind?

If die ended up getting lynched and it was shown he was a townie (Death's show whom that person was, right?) Then I would be somewhat suspicious of you and no. You for starting the flame against him and no for the vote with no reason.

Deaths do show results of town/scum/role in Newbie games (and generally in all games on Mafiascum though I have seen exceptions.

Why is Pulindar not on your list of people to suspect if Die flips town?

[Jerako]

1. What do you see as the benefit in asking generic theory questions to players as opposed to specific questions about the game? Asking me these generic questions will bring you no closer to getting a read on my actions in this game, and whether I am scum or town I am likely to answer them the same way. What's the gain?

Two reasons.

First, is that this is my second game, and there's a lot I don't know yet. Asking questions about mafia theory will help me develop my own mafia theory.

Second, and far more important (for me anyway) is that it's less what you say, and more how you say it. (Although what you say is important as well). We'll be getting to know each other rather well over the next few weeks/months, and indeed, we will need to, in order to determine the motivations behind each others' actions. Even if you outright refuse to answer my questions, you are still giving me information about how you think, which I can use to analyze what you are doing, and more importantly, why. I believe this is going to help me discern whether or not you are scum. Quite a lot of gain, even from such "generic questions," from my point of view.

2. Why no vote yet? Do you not think any useful information has come forth at this point?

Not that I think

no

useful information has come, but that

not enough

has come forth. I am still analyzing all of you, and I will place my vote when I have a reason enough to do so. It seems like you're trying to pressure me into voting. Why?

[[no]]

I'm going to unvote for now

Do you or do you not still suspect Die is scum?

I don't think I have enough info yet. I am however keeping watch

If you don't what did he do to change your mind?

It is possible he is just trying to get some useful reaction out of him. And now I do think an early lynch may be a bad idea, even if I do have confidence.

[silverbullet999]

Why is Pulindar not on your list of people to suspect if Die flips town?

I think because its a what if scenario, he may have been added on (for me he just seemed to be hopping on and agreeing with you?). But since die hasn't been lynched and didn't flip town... and because pulindar unvoted first, he wasn't added.

[AurorusVox]

Thor actually unvoted first...

[silverbullet999]

Thor actually unvoted first...

Just looked.... not sure how i missed that... well umm.... you are right... my apologies... (doing this while at work study is not good..)

Well that changes my mind completely, I'm gonna say I'm still slightly suspicious of die and no and that's it.

[Die Prediger]

@Newer players
It's my understanding that nobody here is in their first game ever. What mistakes did you make in your previous games, if any, and what did you learn from them?

Its my 2nd game here, and 4th game in my "career".

In the last game i played here i was town, i was NK on day 1. In the first day I was one of those who made a point against the mafia goon who was lynched, so i believe i made a good game before my death.

I was not suspected for anyone, and i was not so talkative either, so i think the mafia killed me so he could made a case easily against the others who were already suspected by someone.

[Die Prediger]

Thor actually unvoted first...

Just looked.... not sure how i missed that... well umm.... you are right... my apologies... (doing this while at work study is not good..)

Well that changes my mind completely, I'm gonna say I'm still slightly suspicious of die and no and that's it.

hello Silver!

Well, can i ask you to quote me and explain why you find me suspicious? The reason youve mentioned before is my reaction to Thor questions, but i believe he voted in me because of this:

Vote: Die Prediger

Intentional choice not to put someone at L-3? 'Hai guyz, I am not scum becauze I don't pile on votes in RVS'

Exact quote.

So, can you quote my answers to him (my reaction) and explain why they make you suspect of me? Cause i think youre the first to mention it...

[Die Prediger]

Jerako, I'm a he, but I find it funny when people call me a she. I don't know why, but it happens a lot on mafia ._."

I won't answer the question about "my" last game since you were there too ^^

Hey AV!

We werent there. Would you mind to tell us about it?

[AurorusVox]

Jerako, I'm a he, but I find it funny when people call me a she. I don't know why, but it happens a lot on mafia ._."

I won't answer the question about "my" last game since you were there too ^^

Hey AV!

We werent there. Would you mind to tell us about it?

Our game got ruined by a replacement-newbie vanilla townie fake-claiming a guilty report on another vanilla-townie on D2 (turned out there were no PRs). The next day we lynched the fake cop claim, and it was gg mafia.

I had suspected one of the mafia. The other was Jerako, who I hadn't suspected. So I feel like I had a good game, though it was cut short.

[Thor665]

Not that I think

no

useful information has come, but that

not enough

has come forth. I am still analyzing all of you, and I will place my vote when I have a reason enough to do so. It seems like you're trying to pressure me into voting. Why?

Because votes are the best and most easily traceable information. Also, I feel we already have a pretty good amount of information out there to be looked over for scumtells and couldn't figure out why you hadn't voted.

If you're not comfortable with voting yet please tell me whom you suspect most and why.

Do you or do you not still suspect Die is scum?

I don't think I have enough info yet. I am however keeping watch

Why did you vote him earlier then? You either had enough information then or you do not have enough information now. If he was worth voting for then why isn't he worth voting now?

I think because its a what if scenario, he may have been added on (for me he just seemed to be hopping on and agreeing with you?).

So, if I understand you correctly - someone starting a lynch wagon (me) = potential suspect.
The target of a lynch wagon (Die) = potential suspect
Guy who just "hopped on" a lynch wagon without providing his reasons (Pulindar) = not a suspect

Am I missing something here, or do you actually believe this? If you believe this why do you believe that scum wouldn't want to just sort of agree with someone and hop on a lynch wagon without saying why?

[[no]]

Do you or do you not still suspect Die is scum?

I don't think I have enough info yet. I am however keeping watch

Why did you vote him earlier then? You either had enough information then or you do not have enough information now. If he was worth voting for then why isn't he worth voting now?

I already answered this

[Thor665]

And your answer was that you apparently no longer think an early lynch is a good idea. I was hoping for something a little better but if that's where you're going;

What happened here to change your opinion of early lynches?