Newbie 958 ~Game over!

[Alta]

Hi, everybody.

Vote: Remouk

I've always disliked RVS. I prefer to work off of evidence and facts but I guess the whole point of RVS is so we can start to get facts.

[ThatTumblweed]

((Sorry for any future delays, as I have a job from 9-5 during the week, and cannot check my computer while there. I'll try and make up for it on my offtime!)

Hey, all.

So, I'm confused as to what exactly I did to get voted. It seems sort of silly to be throwing votes around like this- doesn't exactly seem like it'll get a lot done.

Or is that how you do this- instead of having any sort of rational discussion, you fling accusations and then everyone splits hairs about what was said until a choice is made?

Just checking.

[ThatTumblweed]

Also, metagaming is silly.

[brianj]

It is true RVS (this is what is happening right now, so you might want to search it in mafiascum wiki) is kind of pointless, especially with some people EXPLICITLY stating they are using random number generator. Can you propose some kind of topic we can discuss about?

[ThatTumblweed]

I know what it is- and it's what happens in mafia games that you play in real-life as well. People randomly start accusing each other, and then a decision is made based on the initial accusations. Ideally. What it usually boils down to is insults, and mob rule.

Stating that you're using a number generator is really not doing anything at all, is it? It is essentially releasing you of having any ulterior motives other than just trying to get someone lynched. Actually, it seems sort of silly, in that you have no particular motivations behind any choices you could make- a deliberate attempt to appear as neutral as possible while trying to off someone. Hrmmm.

[Incognito]

@ThatTumblweed:
I voted you because of "Incog Theory". It's this theory I made up awhile back that basically stated that the first person to post in a thread is likely scum. It's only worked about 50% of the time, so I use the reason now largely for poops and giggles - I couldn't think of anything wittier to vote anyone for. If you think the so-called RVS is silly, how do you propose we kick the game off instead?

Also, metagaming is silly.

Why?

Stating that you're using a number generator is really not doing anything at all, is it? It is essentially releasing you of having any ulterior motives other than just trying to get someone lynched. Actually, it seems sort of silly, in that you have no particular motivations behind any choices you could make- a deliberate attempt to appear as neutral as possible while trying to off someone. Hrmmm.

Well, now. This seems like you're using the so-called RVS to try to delve into the possible motivations that some people may have used when they chose to place a random vote, which looks like an attempt to step the game away from the RVS, no? So if you're able to come to conclusions like this about people's possible motivations, is the RVS really that silly after all?

Incidentally, do you think scum or town would be more likely to use a number generator to place a vote? Or do you think it's a complete null-tell?

[brianj]

Yay questions! Let me kick-off some discussion as well.
@Earlder1- What do you mean Incognito think you are two people? (I don't understand.)
@remouk- Why did you feel the need to stress the fact you were voting randomly, even going as far as explaining the method you used to pick your target?
@Alta- Is there any specific reason why you voted for Remouk?
@Coach Travis- In what way do you think RVS is superior to RQS in information collecting?
@Leech- you are alive, right?

[LordChronos]

@Incog

I think scum is more likely to use a RNG. It absolves them of the responsibility of justifying their initial vote if, for example, they bandwagon someone. Of course, it does depend on the person. If they do all of the time, and can provide game links to show this, I would say it is a null tell. I hate RNG votes though because they don't lead to any discussion beyond whether RNG usage is a scumtell.

@brianj

No question for me? I feel left out.

[Coach Travis]

@brianj

I've seen games where someone made an obvious mistake in random voting(maybe bandwagonning, or just saying something really suspicious), and it led to them becoming the top suspect right from the start. it doesn't happen often, but it's possible.

Either way, I do think RQS is more useful, because you can use the answers people give against them if you find out they aren't completely accurate, while RVS is just fun.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.1

ThatTumblweed (1)

- Incognito

Incognito (1)

- brianj

brianj (1)

- LordChronos

LordChronos (1)

- Coach Travis

Alta (1)

- Earlder1

Coach Travis (1)

- remouk

remouk (1)

- Alta

Not Voting (2)

- ThatTumblweed, Leech

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Saturday June 5 at 17:14 UTC.

[remouk]

@remouk- Why did you feel the need to stress the fact you were voting randomly, even going as far as explaining the method you used to pick your target?

Well, I was simply wondering how I could pick someone randomly, I thought about random.org, used it, and then wrote that line without much thinking.

P.S. I forgot to mention that I'm not english, so I may misunderstand or say strange things, do not hesitate to ask if something isn't clear.

[LordChronos]

@Coach Travis

Why is that you say RQS > RVS, but started off the game by random voting and have not asked anyone any questions?

@remouk

We call it Random Voting Stage, but the point of it isn't just to vote randomly. The point is to generate information. RNG voting doesn't really do that. Perhaps a better name would be Uninformed Voting Stage. You don't really have any idea who the scum are, but you are still voting.

[Coach Travis]

Because I do think both can be useful in their own way, and just think RQS is maybe slightly more useful, but not much more. So since this game was clearly starting on an RVS, I just went along with it, though I'll admit;Because I'm relatively inexperienced, I still don't really understand how to use either very effectively.

[Earlder1]

@Incog

I didn't wanna give you your second vote. I guess at this stage, it isn't entirely important, but I feel everyone should have their name thrown around in this stage. It is less helpful to try and generate conversation by voting randomly if not that many people are getting voted. With that thought, I prefered to vote for someone without a vote yet.

@Brianj

It has to do with another game I am in. My bud and I registered for this site using the same computer so we have the same IP address. Incognito is hosting another game and wasn't sure if we were the same person or not, that's all. It's completely unrelated.

@ Tumbleweed

Everything is so silly to you, isn't it?

[ThatTumblweed]

@ThatTumblweed:
I voted you because of "Incog Theory". It's this theory I made up awhile back that basically stated that the first person to post in a thread is likely scum. It's only worked about 50% of the time, so I use the reason now largely for poops and giggles - I couldn't think of anything wittier to vote anyone for. If you think the so-called RVS is silly, how do you propose we kick the game off instead?

You're right, you're right. I can't really think of any other way to do it. I suppose that on some level, even in a fictional setting, the idea of lynching someone and having had some part of it is a little disquieting to me. Especially if the person is chosen at random. Though I suppose that if I were to move for a no-lynch, or try and hinder actual voting is allowing an opportunity for the scum to take another innocent.

On that note, I suppose having some motivation is better than none. I like your use of that past knowledge much more than the random number generator.

Why?

Mostly because I don't have any past game experience of my own to rely on. The meta of this is unfamiliar to me and it feels like you're talking over my head.

Incidentally, do you think scum or town would be more likely to use a number generator to place a vote? Or do you think it's a complete null-tell?

I feel like it's more of a null-tell than anything else. Scum have no more reason to use one at this point in the game than anyone else does. While town would use one to truly be neutral and random, scum would use one because they don't have any reason to want any one particular person taken care of yet.

[ThatTumblweed]

@Earlder1

Only the things that matter.

[Alta]

@Alta- Is there any specific reason why you voted for Remouk?

Not really, I just wanted to get the ball rolling. As I said before I really don't like RVS but their isn't any other good way to start so it is necessary I guess.

[LordChronos]

@Alta

You should get an avatar. It makes it much easier for everyone else to quickly tell whose posts are whose.

[Earlder1]

Speaking of Avatars, I know it's considered scummy to diverge discussion, but it's early so I'm taking the risk.

Without looking it up, what is my avatar a picture of?

Iguana?

[brianj]

OMG Earlder1 scum.

Unvote, Vote: Earlder1

[Incognito]

This game looks like it's moving on along pretty nicely so far. Few things to respond to here.

LordChronos, I don't mind you responding to the RNG question, but I asked a question here too:

Ftr, I could see what brianj is getting at with his explanation. I agree that just because a person has a decent record as scum that doesn't mean the same thing would translate over to a person's town game too. I've certainly seem some people who are just absolutely amazing as scum but who suck as town and vice versa. LordChronos, have you seen differently?

Could you respond?

I actually agree with ThatTumblweed when it comes to completely random votes - in my experience, I haven't seen any clear delineation that says that scum are more likely to completely random vote than town or vice versa, so I too would consider it more a null tell. In the games you've played, have you seen a stronger tendency for scum to RNG vote than town?

Well, I was simply wondering how I could pick someone randomly, I thought about random.org, used it, and then wrote that line without much thinking.

You could also use the Dice tag like so:

Code: Select all

[dice]1d9[/dice]

But seriously, voting someone with at least marginally non-random reasons is so much cooler. Do you have any current thoughts about anyone?

@ThatTumblweed:

Do realize that a random voting "stage" is nowhere near the same thing as random

lynching

. I get the feeling that you're working under the assumption that our random votes will somehow remain for the rest of the game and that we'll just end up randomly lynching the person who reaches the required amount of votes first. The RVS is simply a way to begin discussion; lynches, on the other hand, should only be done when enough information has been generated in the thread, and we all come to a consensus as to who is most likely scum.

-~-~-~

p.s. I think brianj is :goodvoting: and we rather need a bandwagon anyway.

unvote, vote: Earlder1

[remouk]

But seriously, voting someone with at least marginally non-random reasons is so much cooler. Do you have any current thoughts about anyone?

No. Right now, I don't have a clue... And TBH, at this point I don't know what to ask/say to get evidence about who might be scum or not.

[ThatTumblweed]

@Incognito

No, I wasn't really aware that it wasn't the same thing. Again, all of my experience with this game lies in real-world games, and those generally tend to bandwagon votes extremely quickly, so when I see that someone has voted me, my panic instinct kicks in, as when I play in real-life games, as usually it means less than five minutes later I'll be killed. A lot of this will be me learning the difference between these games.

Also, the usefulness of bandwagoning is... I'm guessing to drive someone into a corner so they're forced to defend themselves?

@remouk

With all the questions and poking going around, you don't have any clues? I've been picking up vibes pretty well. Is this you just determined to stay as neutral as possible by evading the question?

@Earlder1

I haven't played to know whether or not things like topic diversion are scummy or not, but it is kind of obnoxious.

[Incognito]

remouk, it's usually just a good idea to just give your thoughts on situations. Let us know what you're thinking, etc. Once you do that, I'm sure the questions will just flow naturally. If you're town, we obviously need to

a)

figure out that you're town based on what you're posting and

b)

maybe notice things that you

yourself

may have noticed that maybe none of us have noticed. By keeping your thoughts bottled up, that doesn't help us at all if you're town, but I could see how it might help you if you're scum.

Also, the usefulness of bandwagoning is... I'm guessing to drive someone into a corner so they're forced to defend themselves?

Multiple uses. They're mostly related to reactions by both the person being bandwagoned, and the behavior of the people who aren't being bandwagoned.

[Incognito]

Incidentally, remouk, based on your title of "Goon" I'm guessing you've played at least one other game on here. I haven't looked at the game but were you scum there or town? If you were town, did you have a difficult time figuring out what to say there too?