Mini 973: "Bawhston" Brawl (WHAT A WIN!)

[Radical Hijinx]

Surely you realise that if everyone adopted that viewpoint then nothing would be gained at all, everyone would be waiting for everyone else to react first anf would be too worried to respond. And since we don't know who is scum then we cannot allow anyone to be exempt.

[Oso]

You are making an assumption that is not true. I never indicated that I wasn't going to participate. I won't simply lurk and take notes. I simply stated that I have no opinion on Hoopla's RC at this time and that her RCing this early should provide some interesting discussion. Or at least that was the point I was trying to get across.

Right now, I find some of the vote hopping more alarming than I do Hoopla's RC. Being that we are just now into page 2 and just out of RSV it's only a minor twitch but still something that is itching.

[Hoopla]

And since we are out of the RVS it seems,

Unvote

You know, this is the single most annoying thing that someone can say in a mafia game. It is absolutely redundant and doesn't push the game forward in any way. If there are no more random events taking place, surely you must have some reads either way on someone (or something) to lay down a serious or semi-serious vote. If you can't do that, then you're still in the RVS. There is no reason outside of lylo for you to not be voting.

Also Oso. Way to STILL fail to address or react to the claim

Unfortunately for the both of us I think, you will get no in-depth reaction from me on Hoopla's claim other than this:

Whatever she is doing, it is rather ballsy but there is no context yet for me to put it into the perspective of pro-town or anti-town. There is obviously some direction she is going with it but the direction is not clear to me. The best thing for me to do, at least in my opinion, being that it is early in the game and we have had only half the player's chime in here, is to get out of her way to do whatever it is she is going to do.

Her RC is going to be center stage for most of this game day I'm thinking and there should be a whole wealth of information on the players that can be gathered today to be used in context later in the day and later in the game.

To answer your point as to why I random voted after Hoopla's RC it is because I am more interested in seeing others reactions to her than I am about being worried if I am coming off pro-town or scummy.

This post rubs me the wrong way too - it's rife with useless spin and fluff, and does nothing to address my roleclaim, despite the post being about it completely. The last paragraph is most troubling, as it attempts to push responsibility off himself and onto others, which sucks when you consider the rest of his post is just fluff.

Unvote, vote: Oso

. Get an opinion if you think we're out of the RVS.

[Oso]

Ok then Hoopla, come take a walk in Oso's mind for a minute. (I'll try to keep the sarcasm to a minimum.)

Reasons why I think Hoopla might RC Paranoid Gun Owner right off the bat.

1) She is Vanilla Townie and simply wanted to get a discussion point out there right away for information gathering. Perhaps as a way to draw fire tonight away from other pro-town roles or maybe she justs hate the RVS.

2)She is any number of pro-town roles and using a gambit to get at least one night (or maybe more) in which to act.

3)She actually is a PGO and hopes that mafia will think she is using that to cover another role and try and pop her. One dead mafioso.

Non-Town reasons to claim PGO.

4)Doesn't exactly guarantee she won't get lynched the first day but a high probability that she is lynch immune for Day 1. Very few people are going to push a lynch on a claimed townie especially if there no counter-claim and no supporting evidence that she is in fact scum.

5)She is an SK. Pretty much eliminates the Cop (among other roles) investigating/following for the first night. Too high a chance that she might be telling the truth to risk an investigation Night 1. They'd want other evidence that she was actually scum before investigating. Down side is that Mafia might still go ahead and test the claim. Mafia can't stand to lose one for one with town but depending on their thinking, this might be an acceptable risk.

6)She is mafia. Again, pretty much eliminates any pro-town role from targeting her Night 1 with the added benefit of an SK probably is not going to take a chance either.

7)She is simply messing with our heads.

Now, you tell me just how am I (or anyone else) going to have any sort of definite read on which way you are swinging with this? You have a total of 4 posts so far. There is no way anyone other than God or the Mod can make any sort reasonable guess WHY you RCed. You asked for my comments but you have them already it from my post original and the text you quoted:

..There is obviously some direction she is going with it but the direction is not clear to me....

You say I haven't commented or addressed your RC when it seems, at least to me, that you have rejected that comment simply because it didn't fit neatly into “I think she's scum”

(*)

or “I think she's town”.

I still have no, AS IN ZERO, opinion of the validity of your RC or how it might reflect on your alignment.

As for trying to divert attention, that wasn't my point at all (although on re-reading my post it does seem that is what I was doing). What I wanted to point out to Radical Hijinx was there there are some minor signs that are setting of some bells for me other than your RC. Granted your RC is the biggest thing happening in the thread right but not the ONLY thing nor do I think it is the most important. I got the impression he thought I meant that I was going to go “hide and watch” how other reacted to your RC and I do plan on watching reactions about that, but I'm not not going to focus exclusively on it nor am I going to lurk while doing it. That was the point I was trying to get across. You came into the room and set off an almighty big bell, I'm trying to hear other noises that may be using that loud bell as cover, hoping to pass unnoticed.

As to unvoting, personal preference on my part. I vote to lynch or sometimes to pressure. If I am doing neither, it goes back in my pocket where it can't inadvertently hurt anyone. Apologies if that annoys you but there it is.

[xRECKONERx]

Everyone target Hoopla tonight

gg

Anyone who took this post seriously should do the human gene pool a favor and go kill themselves.

You planning to start playing the game any time soon, or are you just gonna keep cracking wise?

Halfway into p.1? Lol.

Anyway, there's no way to confirm Hoop's claim, but I think her claim is legitimate. PGO claim prevents PR deaths and also wifoms scum into the risk of killing her. However if scum has a redirect then we're screwed ish.

[Nikanor]

Vote: Gwynplaine.

Obvious scum is obvious. He's being waaaaay too aggressive at this stage in the game to be town.
I don't know why talking about Hoopla's claim is such a big deal. Simply don't target her at night.

[Radical Hijinx]

So you don't think one unconfirmed player with near immunity to night actions is a worrisome development and instead you will go after someone whos only posts have been to tell Rek to stop being "silly" and "start playing the game"?

[Nikanor]

Well Mr. Hijinx, I believe that scumhunting (or townhunting, in my case) is more reliable than investigative roles anyway.
I don't see why a PGO should have an effect on our day play anyway.

[Radical Hijinx]

How reliable investigative roles are is not the issue. The issue is that such roles likley exist in this game and someone may have invented a senario in which they are exempt. It warrants discussion if nothing else!

[Nikanor]

Not really.

[q21]

Vote Oso

-snip-

To answer your point as to why I random voted after Hoopla's RC it is because

I am more interested in seeing others reactions to her than I am about being worried if I am coming off pro-town or scummy.

Mafia is - at its most fundamental - a game about perceptions. The fact that you are so glib on not being worried (or at least not very worried) about how you are perceived rings an alarm bell for me, all be it a small one.

-snip-

As for trying to divert attention, that wasn't my point at all (although on re-reading my post it does seem that is what I was doing). What I wanted to point out to Radical Hijinx was there there are some minor signs that are setting of some bells for me other than your RC. Granted your RC is the biggest thing happening in the thread right but not the ONLY thing nor do I think it is the most important. I got the impression he thought I meant that I was going to go “hide and watch”

(*)

how other reacted to your RC and I do plan on watching reactions about that, but I'm not not going to focus exclusively on it nor am I going to lurk while doing it. That was the point I was trying to get across. You came into the room and set off an almighty big bell, I'm trying to hear other noises that may be using that loud bell as cover, hoping to pass unnoticed.

-snip-

To be fair I must say that I agree with the first half of this post (28). We have no sure way of interpreting hoopla's RC until we have some context (in the form of a body of posts) to view it in. That said, I fail to see these other issues you are talking about in this post, please enlighten me.

Well Mr. Hijinx, I believe that scumhunting (or townhunting, in my case) is more reliable than investigative roles anyway.
I don't see why a PGO should have an effect on our day play anyway.

Clarify the term 'townhunting' please.

[yabbaguy]

Vote Count:

7 to lynch

Oso (2): Hoopla, q21
xRECKONERx (2): havingfitz, Gwynplaine
Hoopla (1): Radical Hijinx
Furry (1): xRECKONERx
Gwynplaine (1): Nikanor

Nonvoters: Oso, Slepz, Furry, Jacob Savage, InflatablePie

Deadline is 6/6 @ 10 PM GMT-4. No Lynch occurs if this elapses.

[Nikanor]

Townhunting is like scumhunting, except you hunt for town.
Except that I don't really "hunt" actively. I just kind of call people town and lynch based on process of elimination.

[q21]

I guess that's a reasonable playstyle.

[Oso]

.....That said, I fail to see these other issues you are talking about in this post, please enlighten me.

In Post #24 I said:

Unfortunately for the both of us I think, you will get no in-depth reaction from me on Hoopla's claim other than this:

Whatever she is doing, it is rather ballsy but there is no context yet for me to put it into the perspective of pro-town or anti-town. There is obviously some direction she is going with it but the direction is not clear to me. The best thing for me to do, at least in my opinion, being that it is early in the game and we have had only half the player's chime in here, is to get out of her way to do whatever it is she is going to do.

Her RC is going to be center stage for most of this game day I'm thinking and there should be a whole wealth of information on the players that can be gathered today to be used in context later in the day and later in the game.

To answer your point as to why I random voted after Hoopla's RC it is because I am more interested in seeing others reactions to her than I am about being worried if I am coming off pro-town or scummy.

I may be mistaken but I think that is what prompted Radical Hijinx's Post #25

Surely you realise that if everyone adopted that viewpoint then nothing would be gained at all, everyone would be waiting for everyone else to react first anf would be too worried to respond. And since we don't know who is scum then we cannot allow anyone to be exempt.

I got the impression, maybe a mistaken one, that he was thinking I was going to go into lurker mode and just watch and that he wasn't going to let that happen.

That prompted me to make post #26

You are making an assumption that is not true. I never indicated that I wasn't going to participate. I won't simply lurk and take notes. I simply stated that I have no opinion on Hoopla's RC at this time and that her RCing this early should provide some interesting discussion. Or at least that was the point I was trying to get across.

Right now, I find some of the vote hopping more alarming than I do Hoopla's RC. Being that we are just now into page 2 and just out of RSV it's only a minor twitch but still something that is itching.

The bolded part is what Hoopla picked up as an attempt to divert attention. Upon a re-read I have to say she has a point, it does look like an attempt to divert attention no matter what I intended it to be. It was mainly an attempt to show that there are other things going on in the topic rather than Hoopla's RC itself.

Look at it realistically. Hoopla is not going to get lynched or confirmed today. There is no way to confirm or deny her RC today without lynching her and that just isn't going to happen. While her RC should be talked about, the lynch today is going to come of the way the rest of the players react to her RC rather the RC itself plus the usual Day #1 scumtells.

My having no opinion her RC stems from the fact that with all the ways it can go it is completely a 100% NULL TELL as far as indicating alignment goes, at least as far as I am concerned. And you certainly don''t jump all over someone who has nothing to say about a null tell. The fact we had a player RC on her first post has, I think, blinded most folks to the fact that it is completely useless information at this point in the game. It neither helps nor hinders the town. It may come in handy later but I'm afraid that because it was an RC and an early no-vote RC to boot, anyone who chooses to disregard it, file it away for later or go look in another direction is going to get autolabeled scummy.

"Dammit, we have an RC out there, how can you look elsewhere? You are obvscum...." or something similar.

I'm certainly not going to advocate a lynch to check it nor am I going to blindly accept that it is true. I'll fall back on my old standby routine and file the fact that she RCed as a PGO until a later date when I have some other knowledge that might tend to indicate her guilt or innocence.

In the meantime, she(Hoopla) has certainly generated some discussion right off the bat so that is a good thing. Whatever her alignment is, she did manage to get discussion started in a hurry and that allows plenty posts to look at.

[havingfitz]

Herm. Never been in a game with a PGO before. Let alone someone claiming PGO second post.

My head says policy lynch. My heart gets eaten by WIFOM.

unvote, Vote:Hoopla

I don't have a comment on the claim ATM as I have not played with a PGO before either. I'm not sure what the benefit was to town of such an early claim. Does a PGO only impact the people who try to kill or does the PGO also impact people who make any kind of contact (such as investigative or protective contact)? I lean towards there being more benefit to scum fakeclaiming PGO (especially so early in the game) than town legitimately claiming it.

Is lynching the PGO a standard policy lynch? Why...isn't the PGO a town affiliated role?

Unvote

since we appear to have moved on from RVS.

Real vote TBD.

[q21]

@ havingfitz - PGOs usually kill anyone who targets them with any night action. Its not policy lynch in my book because it is, as you said, a town affiliated role. The problem stems from it being almost completely uncomfirmable. There are better ways to play the role, but if she is town the route she has chosen isn't necessarily a bad one. Oso is correct in his statement that her claim is a null tell - at least until we can put it into come context.

As to Oso, I agree with some of his most recent conclusions, but the fact of the matter is that his initial reaction to the RC was to sit back and wait to see everyone else's reactions. That combined with his somewhat blasé attitude toward the town's perceptions of him irk me enough that I am happy with my vote for now.

[Radical Hijinx]

Policy lynch was perhaps a bit silly on my part. I can see now how claiming it can seem better than not. I saw a giant "Never target me with night actions" sign and failed to recognise the the possible protown motovations based therein. The role, particulary when claimed does spook me a bit.

[xRECKONERx]

Unvote since we appear to have moved on from RVS.

STOP DOING THIS SHIT

[Furry]

Vote havingfitz
FoS q21

Third scum is prob lurking, although RH isnt a stretch

Hoopla and Oso are blatantly town.

About to eat, will explain why at least one if not both of fitz and q21 are scum.

@RH - Why policy lynch PGO?

Also fitz, im always scum if I replace into a game. If I dont replace into a game im always town.

Kinda secrets are also still technically secrets. hush

[Gwynplaine]

He's being waaaaay too aggressive at this stage in the game to be town.

Really? You thought I was being aggressive?

[Radical Hijinx]

@RH - Why policy lynch PGO?

I felt that its dangers as a lie outshone its benifits as a truth. Since then Hoopla has acted well and I was probably too quick in calling for a policy lynch. PGO was pretty new to be and I reacted poorly.

[Hoopla]

Unvote, vote: havingfitz

[Slepz]

PGO is a tough role to play, but I feel like the most pro-town way to play it would be to attract as little attention as possible from all, only claiming if you begin to look suspicious to the town. SK was my immediate first thought when I saw the claim, but I now see how the claim

could

be beneficial to the town. Maybe the mafia will test the claim tonight and, assuming you aren't a cop or something, it's a pro-town move. Rather risky, though, and I feel it's unwarranted this early in the game. SK or scum seems more likely to me right now, so I'll

Vote: Hoopla

.

[JacobSavage]

Whaa! That is a lot of action
I'll get back later