Newbie 970 - Quietville - Game over

[Mirhawk]

2 - I don't want to push a vote too hard that im not at least 90% sure of, but (in honor of our mighty mod and the all powerful Mal) let me make this abundantly clear, you're at about 87.9% and pushing it

I don't think I quite understand your case against Orphan. You seem dead certain that he's mafia but I don't really get why.

Okay, so Fos Orphen

Reasons

[0] Falling under peer pressure (This is obviously a joke do not take it as more)
[1] Overreacting to my

over

reactions
[2] Trying to build a case on me out of something that should have just been a don't do this, okay? okay!
[3] In doing so;
[a] Diluting the thread with useless information

Trying to get me to do the same (and sadly, succeeding)
[c] Making it harder for town to read into things others are saying

1) This one makes some sense to me, but it seems like you are saying that we should vote for him based on something that you yourself had done. Or are you saying that you never actually overreacted?

2) I can kinda understand that, but from my point of view it seems kinda like you were the one who wouldn't just let it drop. I mean you could have just said that your reasons were in your previous posts, but instead every time it was mentioned you posted a whole new spiel about it.

3a) Where exactly was he doing that?

3c) In what way? Do you think he was deliberately trying to discredit you? And if so how?

Posting all of your quotes I will use in your last post in order using 1,2,3,4..

1)
2)No, in no way did i, lets say question you, because you are an easy target, or an easy bandwagon. I don't know how you get this impression that i am doing such, and think you are just trying to blow out what i said in order to make what i said seem more "lethal."

2. Ooh, avoiding my accusation and instead putting one on me! We got a feisty one town, hang em high!

This is the only part in your later accusation that seems to hold any real water. But then again in all fairness you never answered his question either.

Do you have any

specific

things that you suspect him for, or is this based mostly off what you feel?



@Lateralus

I believe the scum would prefer to stay on the sidelines instead of move the game forward.

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

[Xite91]

Okay, so Fos Orphen

Reasons

[0] Falling under peer pressure (This is obviously a joke do not take it as more)
[1] Overreacting to my

over

reactions
[2] Trying to build a case on me out of something that should have just been a don't do this, okay? okay!
[3] In doing so;
[a] Diluting the thread with useless information

Trying to get me to do the same (and sadly, succeeding)
[c] Making it harder for town to read into things others are saying

1) This one makes some sense to me, but it seems like you are saying that we should vote for him based on something that you yourself had done. Or are you saying that you never actually overreacted?

2) I can kinda understand that, but from my point of view it seems kinda like you were the one who wouldn't just let it drop. I mean you could have just said that your reasons were in your previous posts, but instead every time it was mentioned you posted a whole new spiel about it.

3a) Where exactly was he doing that?

3c) In what way? Do you think he was deliberately trying to discredit you? And if so how?


4) This is the only part in your later accusation that seems to hold any real water. But then again in all fairness you never answered his question either.

5) Do you have any

specific

things that you suspect him for, or is this based mostly off what you feel?


6) @Lateralus

I believe the scum would prefer to stay on the sidelines instead of move the game forward.

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

1) I crossed out over on mine indicating that I really didnt see it as an overreaction. I figured that I had to repost as many times as I did because after the first two people were still asking and therefore did not understand. So I tried to make it easier for them. The fifth one might have been, but I was tired of saying the same thing, wouldn't you be?

2)See 1.

3a) Reread the thread and tell me how much game content has been added by him? Less than me to say the least. And like I said, when I have a good enough case and I am 90% sure, I will do everything in my power to get him lynched because I really do feel like he's scum.

3c) It's a lot harder to scumhunt when there's no real content in posts referring to the game, no matter who's. He was putting up filler and prodding me to do the same, like I said, sadly I gave in to him, I'll admit my mistakes.

4) What question, I might have missed it. I'll answer anything you throw at me if you want.

5) Yes, it is mostly a gut feeling, but I have my points on him and when I vote I will be sure to reiterate them and add more even. But you have to wait until he says more for me to do that.

6) WIFOM is good WIFOM is great WIFOM is something we can always rely on.
But if you REALLY wanna know, scum

could

do either, which is why you go based on what's said/not said, instead of oh I think scum would wear a pink tutu while they practice karate.

[wolframnhart]

@Mod
When you find a replacement for mrdean, is my vote going to turn into an unvote or would it point to his replacement? Had I the choice, I would prefer the latter, just to get him talking asap. Thank you.

Whenever a person is replaced all votes that were on the previous person stay on that person, in other words and votes on MrDean will be on his replacement.

And speaking of replacement MrDean is replaced by Reverse Simplicity! Welcome and thanks!

[Xite91]

EBWOP: Shit, totally forgot to add this

By the way, I like how you're going, "I kind of understand, but no" on everything.
Sounds a lot like lateralus isn't the only one that's "on the fence" in all this.
Could this be a scumtell? I think so

FoS : Mirhawk

[Lateralus22]

Hmm I never really noticed that myself until you pointed it out. Its not intentional, just those are the posts I was responding to. At this point I'm not as suspicious of Xite as I was before anyway. I don't think she defended herself very well, but if I were mafia and in her shoes I would had tried to deflect that conversation off me and onto someone else sooner than she did.

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

Fair enough.

At the moment I'm most interested in Lateralus so...

VOTE: Lateralus

I'm curious, what is the reason for this vote? I read the quote and Rain is speaking about RVS and if it's about upholding information, I think I've already provided some or asked questions in order to obtain information.

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

Not really, the more posts/content to post the more easier it should be to call BS on them. If they blend in the crowd they'll be harder to spot. Oddly enough if this is what you think the mafia would do then don't you think Xite is the mafia?

A) He is active.
B) He is moving this game forward, and oddly enough he seems to think he's the leader here.

AND since Xite is within your definition of mafia then why did you state here that you do not think he is the mafia?

Why would I vote for you or Xite? I had already stated in my previous post that I wasn't all that suspicious of you and I wasn't sure if Xite would jump into the spotlight so much is she was scum.

Well?

FoS: Mirhawk

[Xite91]

Hmm I never really noticed that myself until you pointed it out. Its not intentional, just those are the posts I was responding to. At this point I'm not as suspicious of Xite as I was before anyway. I don't think she defended herself very well, but if I were mafia and in her shoes I would had tried to deflect that conversation off me and onto someone else sooner than she did.

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

I'll answer this... uh no, like I said, rain is closer to my play style, satirical humor + Always a serious scumhunter, even when posting seemingly useless stuff... that's how I'd describe us both

But honestly why did you ask this?

[Lateralus22]

Hmm I never really noticed that myself until you pointed it out. Its not intentional, just those are the posts I was responding to. At this point I'm not as suspicious of Xite as I was before anyway. I don't think she defended herself very well, but if I were mafia and in her shoes I would had tried to deflect that conversation off me and onto someone else sooner than she did.

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

I'll answer this... uh no, like I said, rain is closer to my play style, satirical humor + Always a serious scumhunter, even when posting seemingly useless stuff... that's how I'd describe us both

But honestly why did you ask this?

I will explain after Mirhawk answers.

[Xite91]

Okay, but I don't see where it's going and it seems pointless IMHO

[Computing]

@Computing
RVS was over a looooonnnggg time ago mate. There was no need to make an RVS vote when you did because someone else highlighted your original vote. Then again, your townie to me for this exact reason. (or newb scum)

Hold on, I was answering a question asked of me by Rain about my vote, I didn't make a RVS vote then and I made my initial one before Mirhawk, who was still prompted to make one.
If you were more meaning keeping my vote random until I have greater suspicions, what's wrong with that? I really don't want to get an innocent townie lynched. The spongebob comment was a joke though the fact that you changed your avatar is interesting (though I could just have been massively unobservant and you've had it this whole time if so all this is void and I apologise), was it supposed to make you seem innocent by actively drawing a vote towards yourself or off Xite who you considered to be suspicious but no longer do to the same extent or were you just annoyed that I would change my vote because of something so trivial?
So because I said I would in the presence of a SpongeBob avatar and becuase I'd like to to see what you'll do under pressure:

Unvote, vote [O]rphen

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

[/quote][/quote]
To me this is another one of the questions that keeps him out of it but seems designed to make Xite and Mirhawk not like each other, comparing yourself to other people makes you not like them in my experience.

Because I'm still trying to understand the terms and learn the game etc. I have a couple of questions:
1) would the last part of my comments about Orphen be considered WIFOM? It kind of seems like it as a townie would do the same thing because they actually are innocent while scum would do it to make them seem innocent and that's what WIFOM is if my understanding of WIFOM is right (which it probably isn't thus this question)
2) Is a wolf the same thing as scum?
3) Is it okay for me to be asking stuff like this?

[Mirhawk]

3a) Reread the thread and tell me how much game content has been added by him? Less than me to say the least. And like I said, when I have a good enough case and I am 90% sure, I will do everything in my power to get him lynched because I really do feel like he's scum.

3c) It's a lot harder to scumhunt when there's no real content in posts referring to the game, no matter who's. He was putting up filler and prodding me to do the same, like I said, sadly I gave in to him, I'll admit my mistakes.

What exactly is it that makes his posts have no content other than the fact that they were directed at you? He only has four posts for crying out loud.
-the first is RVS
-the second is voicing suspicions about you
-the third is in response to you
-and in the fourth he both asks and answers questions to and from multiple players.

4) What question, I might have missed it. I'll answer anything you throw at me if you want.

Hmmm, I think you're right. In the quote from him in my last post I thought he asked you what made you think he was bandwagoning him. But upon rereading it doesn't seem to be phrased as a question. Sorry bout that.

5) Yes, it is mostly a gut feeling, but I have my points on him and when I vote I will be sure to reiterate them and add more even. But you have to wait until he says more for me to do that.

Which is to say, you got nothing but don't want to say it out loud. What reason could you have for withholding it if it might sway more people to vote for him. You are after all 90% sure.... that's pretty certain.

----------------------

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

I dunno, maybe. I think it would probably be easier for a third party to make a judgement on this rather then me or Xite. Do you think I play in the same way?

I'm curious, what is the reason for this vote? I read the quote and Rain is speaking about RVS and if it's about upholding information, I think I've already provided some or asked questions in order to obtain information.

At the time I cast it I was thinking that Xite and Orphan could both be town. And if they were both town then you might be using your position between them to egg on the argument without actually getting inside it. You were after all at the time asking questions of both sides at once without committing to either of them.

While I'm not as suspicious of you as I was before I'm still going to keep there for the moment. Besides I'm a suspicious fence sitter right now too.

I don't agree with this. I think that a mafia player would be more inclined to be active. It is after all in their best interests to move the game forward quickly, particularly if they can steer it towards a townie.

Not really, the more posts/content to post the more easier it should be to call BS on them. If they blend in the crowd they'll be harder to spot. Oddly enough if this is what you think the mafia would do then don't you think Xite is the mafia?

A) He is active.
B) He is moving this game forward, and oddly enough he seems to think he's the leader here.

AND since Xite is within your definition of mafia then why did you state here that you do not think he is the mafia?

Why would I vote for you or Xite? I had already stated in my previous post that I wasn't all that suspicious of you and I wasn't sure if Xite would jump into the spotlight so much is she was scum.

Well?

FoS: Mirhawk

I said I figured they would be active, not suicidal. Xite couldn't have jumped further out into the spotlight if her head was on fire and was shooting fireworks out of her ass.

Besides Xite had a point when she said that speculation on this is kinda useless. Its not going to help us catch scum.

[Xite91]

A)Hold on, I was answering a question asked of me by Rain about my vote, I didn't make a RVS vote then and I made my initial one before Mirhawk, who was still prompted to make one.
If you were more meaning keeping my vote random until I have greater suspicions, what's wrong with that? I really don't want to get an innocent townie lynched. The spongebob comment was a joke though the fact that you changed your avatar is interesting (though I could just have been massively unobservant and you've had it this whole time if so all this is void and I apologise), was it supposed to make you seem innocent by actively drawing a vote towards yourself or off Xite who you considered to be suspicious but no longer do to the same extent or were you just annoyed that I would change my vote because of something so trivial?
So because I said I would in the presence of a SpongeBob avatar and becuase I'd like to to see what you'll do under pressure:

Unvote, vote [O]rphen

Because I'm still trying to understand the terms and learn the game etc. I have a couple of questions:
1) would the last part of my comments about Orphen be considered WIFOM? It kind of seems like it as a townie would do the same thing because they actually are innocent while scum would do it to make them seem innocent and that's what WIFOM is if my understanding of WIFOM is right (which it probably isn't thus this question)
2) Is a wolf the same thing as scum?
3) Is it okay for me to be asking stuff like this?

A) I find it hilarious that you're making a case on him about this and I really hope it was a joke.
Although the pressure thing isn't such a bad idea, I still want more of a read on him before we push it that far. also vayre needs to take off his joke vote first (I think it's still a joke vote

@mod does vayre deserve a prod yet?

)

1)http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... reviations
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... y:Glossary
learn it, love it.

2) Wolf is the same thing as scum, I expect whoever used it to have some experience irl, because it's used more widely irl games (most of the time called werewolves instead of mafia)

3) This is a noob game, you're encouraged to ask this stuff as long as you actually learn it and don't have to keep asking.

[Computing]

A) I find it hilarious that you're making a case on him about this and I really hope it was a joke.
Although the pressure thing isn't such a bad idea, I still want more of a read on him before we push it that far. also vayre needs to take off his joke vote first

The vote is a joke the question is not, I'm not going to try to get someone lynched because of their avatar but I figured I might as well follow through with what I said and vote for him as my vote on you was random. And the logic of drawing attention to yourself via an avatar change of all things eludes me.

Plus, this line of thinking is fun to me which is the point of playing C:

1)http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... reviations
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... y:Glossary
learn it, love it.

I've been there read about it but am still a bit fuzzy on the concept I'm sorry.

[Reverse Simplicity]

Quick post: I'm replacing MrDean, I will read through the posts and make some analysis in a wall of text as my next post.

[Xite91]

Damn EBWOP again

3a) Reread the thread and tell me how much game content has been added by him? Less than me to say the least. And like I said, when I have a good enough case and I am 90% sure, I will do everything in my power to get him lynched because I really do feel like he's scum.

3c) It's a lot harder to scumhunt when there's no real content in posts referring to the game, no matter who's. He was putting up filler and prodding me to do the same, like I said, sadly I gave in to him, I'll admit my mistakes.

What exactly is it that makes his posts have no content other than the fact that they were directed at you? He only has four posts for crying out loud.
-the first is RVS
-the second is voicing suspicions about you
-the third is in response to you
-and in the fourth he both asks and answers questions to and from multiple players.

in order of his posts:
1) Joke vote, not a problem
2) 1st

time saying that I was clogging thread with my warning

talk, say's he ignores RVS completely, WIFOM
3) 2nd time with ^ as an argument,

asking a semi-valid question

, telling me not to tell him to do something he admitted he needed to do later, casting

his actual suspicion on me

4)

Answering questions

,

asking questions

, admitting that he had needed to reread through the thread, questions me for not voting him, questioning Mirhawk for something pointless,

mod prod request

, making another misread mistake, asking another useless question, talking about his old game, FoS'ed someone for not voting me or him

bolded is what added to the game, answering and asking questions were half and half though, so I bolded those too

Also, in his four posts, it seemed like he was trying to make a case on pretty much everyone.
Yeah, lets throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks??

5) Yes, it is mostly a gut feeling, but I have my points on him and when I vote I will be sure to reiterate them and add more even. But you have to wait until he says more for me to do that.

Which is to say, you got nothing but don't want to say it out loud. What reason could you have for withholding it if it might sway more people to vote for him. You are after all 90% sure.... that's pretty certain.

lol reread. again.
I said I won't vote him until I'm 90% sure. I also said I was about %87.9 sure
I'm pretty sure I made that abundantly clear

I said I figured they would be active, not suicidal. Xite couldn't have jumped further out into the spotlight if her head was on fire and was shooting fireworks out of her ass.

Lols

[Lateralus22]

Would you be willing to agree that you and Xite have the same playing style in mafia?

I dunno, maybe. I think it would probably be easier for a third party to make a judgement on this rather then me or Xite. Do you think I play in the same way?

Honestly I don't. This is important because if you don't then you're reason for not voting Xite in the start of the game is nothing. Please reread the quote that I asked the question from. You speak of what you would do as mafia instead of Xite as a reason to not vote him but seeing how two of you having different play styles you wouldn't act in the same way making your reason just an excuse.

At the time I cast it I was thinking that Xite and Orphan could both be town. And if they were both town then you might be using your position between them to egg on the argument without actually getting inside it. You were after all at the time asking questions of both sides at once without committing to either of them.

I believe Rain mentioned this a while back right? It is not my intention to put any two players against each other, but seeing how the topic of the questions was I'm not surprised people began to think I was. Although I don't have too much of a problem as long as everyone remains mature, conversations like the Orphen/Xite one give off information and even though at the time you though they could both be town it's also possible they could both, or one of them be scum.

I said I figured they would be active, not suicidal. Xite couldn't have jumped further out into the spotlight if her head was on fire and was shooting fireworks out of her ass.

Besides Xite had a point when she said that speculation on this is kinda useless. Its not going to help us catch scum.

Opinion. Though one needs to know how scum would act like in order to catch the scum correct?

To me this is another one of the questions that keeps him out of it but seems designed to make Xite and Mirhawk not like each other, comparing yourself to other people makes you not like them in my experience.

No, not really. I was trying to portray either of them in a negative light or make one of them look better than the other. It was simply needed to make my point above. Also Xite where are your percentages coming from?

Oh I'd also like to

unvote

since RVS is over. I'd like to see a little more content from Compute/Nacho/RS

[Xite91]

Fuck EBWOP again
okay, computing
WIFOM stands for Wine in front of me
Ever seen the princess bride? Remember when the wine was poisoned and the guy had to choose between one or the other practically based on character? (Youre a pussy, so you would never put the drink in front of you, however you know I would think that so you would put it in front of you, but then again..... and so on)
That's WIFOM

[Lateralus22]

Er edit (whatever the abbreviation is for it)

I was trying to portray

should be

I

wasn't

[Xite91]

Also Xite where are your percentages coming from?

They're based on Feelings + Data + Personality / Feelings + Data + Personality of other players lol
I don't know, they're just how sure I am

[Computing]

Fuck EBWOP again
okay, computing
WIFOM stands for Wine in front of me
Ever seen the princess bride? Remember when the wine was poisoned and the guy had to choose between one or the other practically based on character? (Youre a pussy, so you would never put the drink in front of you, however you know I would think that so you would put it in front of you, but then again..... and so on)
That's WIFOM

God, I'm sorry, I

know

I'm being thick about this but I still don't understand its use in mafia, what's the poisoned wine? The apparent options of answers to a question one (or more) of which which will mean arrival at the conclusion that you are pure scum? Or am I getting too tangled up in the metaphor and it's just about arriving at recursive reasoning through any method? If the latter why is it based on the specific example of the Princess Bride (which I have seen and love) which is about tying to out manoeuvring your opponent thought logic and then being thwarted by the fact that they weren't even playing your game?
I'm making this more complicated than it is, aren't I?
I'm sorry, I know I'm clogging up the thread with this, if I still don't understand after this, I'll just accept that I will never do so. ;___;

[Xite91]

which is about tying to out manoeuvring your opponent thought logic and then being thwarted by the fact that they weren't even playing your game?

Right here is why WIFOM is mostly pointless
but yes, it's the act of trying to say, well if you were scum, you would do this, (or in some cases, it goes on to -> but you might have thought I would say that so you did the opposite, and so on and so forth)

[Lateralus22]

Fuck EBWOP again
okay, computing
WIFOM stands for Wine in front of me
Ever seen the princess bride? Remember when the wine was poisoned and the guy had to choose between one or the other practically based on character? (Youre a pussy, so you would never put the drink in front of you, however you know I would think that so you would put it in front of you, but then again..... and so on)
That's WIFOM

God, I'm sorry, I

know

I'm being thick about this but I still don't understand its use in mafia, what's the poisoned wine? The apparent options of answers to a question one (or more) of which which will mean arrival at the conclusion that you are pure scum? Or am I getting too tangled up in the metaphor and it's just about arriving at recursive reasoning through any method? If the latter why is it based on the specific example of the Princess Bride (which I have seen and love) which is about tying to out manoeuvring your opponent thought logic and then being thwarted by the fact that they weren't even playing your game?
I'm making this more complicated than it is, aren't I?
I'm sorry, I know I'm clogging up the thread with this, if I still don't understand after this, I'll just accept that I will never do so. ;___;

Yeah, you are making this more complicated. The example is from the movie, doesn't mean it has to go or even be related to the theme of the movie. Have you checked out the wiki yet?

This should explain it (It's actually from the wik but hey now you don't have to click the link)

So begins the game of "wine in front of me", or WIFOM, for short. In gaming, it's any kind of game or subgame, especially a psychological one, in which a player is given a set of apparently equal choices where one or more is completely wrong. In such games one often may try to use what he knows of his opponent to make a better choice. However, in some situations this leads to recursive reasoning: "But that's just what he wants me to think, so I'll do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think, so I'll not do the opposite. But maybe that's what he wants me to think..."

It's pretty much when something can go either way, but if you still don't get it the wiki link is there.
http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wifom

[Xite91]

Oh, and the princess bride isn't the example but it's the best one I could think of, and it's a damn good one anyways

[Computing]

Okay, thanks guys I think I get it now, it's recursive reasoning which should be avoided because it gets you no where anyway and the term can be applied to more general situations than the one in the Princess Bride because the name's just there because it's a well known example.
I'm really sorry for the derail but I feel like it's good to understand it now thank you C:

[Mirhawk]

Honestly I don't. This is important because if you don't then you're reason for not voting Xite in the start of the game is nothing. Please reread the quote that I asked the question from. You speak of what you would do as mafia instead of Xite as a reason to not vote him but seeing how two of you having different play styles you wouldn't act in the same way making your reason just an excuse.

Perhaps, but what should I be using as a baseline for what is scummy behavior then? Seeing as how I'm not familiar with any of the people in this game I have no past behavior to compare what they are doing to other than what I would do in a similar situation.

[wolframnhart]

@mod does vayre deserve a prod yet?

No Vayre last posted Sunday at 1:22am, he has until Tuesday @ 1:22am to post before needing a prod.