New York 116 - Prozacs Large Normal - Who won?

[diginova]

How was it not an RVS vote, when the vote itself was prefaced by "for being the only non-bolded player in the player list"?
It was the first post in the game, on someone who hadn't even confirmed, that I mentioned just twice and then stopped saying anything about?
I agree that pushing policy lynches is a scumtell, but I was not even attempting to push it at all. Thus why once he (actually, his replacement) posted, I removed the vote.

In addition, what is it with mothrax and AGar constantly mentioning "getting RVS moving" as well as ending it in the same post? RVS is not some fixed phase, and there is no reason to wait until other people want to end it before posting reads. It ends when enough discussion has occurred for useful analysis. AGar, why did you wait until someone else wanted to move out of RVS to post your reads instead of taking initiative?

[AGar]

How was it not an RVS vote, when the vote itself was prefaced by "for being the only non-bolded player in the player list"?
It was the first post in the game, on someone who hadn't even confirmed, that I mentioned just twice and then stopped saying anything about?
I agree that pushing policy lynches is a scumtell, but I was not even attempting to push it at all. Thus why once he (actually, his replacement) posted, I removed the vote.

In addition, what is it with mothrax and AGar constantly mentioning "getting RVS moving" as well as ending it in the same post? RVS is not some fixed phase, and there is no reason to wait until other people want to end it before posting reads. It ends when enough discussion has occurred for useful analysis. AGar, why did you wait until someone else wanted to move out of RVS to post your reads instead of taking initiative?

For the first part:

I'm assuming you mean your first post in the game. But the preface could easily be forced to mask a true intention. If it was an RVS vote, why bring up the policy at all? And why follow it up with any justification?

For the second part:

I've mentioned "getting RVS moving" and ending the RVS in one post together, and I was questioning mothrax about it. Nice try though. And I didn't end it myself because I was able to garner reads on other players' alignments by who tried to prolong RVS and who tried to end it quickly. By trying to end it myself, I gain nothing in the form of reads, or a lot less at best. By letting someone else end it, I was able to see who wanted to get down to business.

Note that I was not attempting to prolong the RVS myself, rather I was going with the flow. I also deflected the first attempt by fugitive in order to see if he was simply scum trying to set himself up to look townie or a townie themselves. If he was the former, he would've made the one not-so-forceful attempt and continued with the RVS if it failed. However, he kept at it, kept applying pressure. +Town points for seriously trying to end the RVS. Toogeloo seems leaning +town as well, as he was fairly forceful in his attempt to end the RVS.

[Porochaz]

Fugitive - 2 -Wraith, CCARaven
Anon - 2 - Stef, Zorblag
Toon Fighter - 2 - Benmage, mothrax
Agar - 2 - Charlie, Fugitive
Diginova - 2 - tubby, Agar
Benmage - 1 - Anon
Zorblag - 1 - Lowell
Lowell - 1 - Toon Fighter
Mothrax - 1 - Toogeloo

Not Voting - 2 - Diginova, Mr.Sandman

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline August 7th

[Porochaz]

Mr.Sandman will have 24 hours from this post to post or else he will also be replaced. He has picked up his prod.

[diginova]

I'm assuming you mean your first post in the game. But the preface could easily be forced to mask a true intention. If it was an RVS vote, why bring up the policy at all? And why follow it up with any justification?

I was just trying to answer the question as to what I found objectionable about millar's playstyle (my interpretation of the question asked). I brought up the policy because I have been reading through his previous games, and I didn't want any of what he did in that game to extend into this one, as I play Mafia for enjoyment, and his playstyle from the games I read saps any interest and intrigue from the game. I figured that by clarifying myself, millar could hopefully see it and keep it in mind in this game. My concerns are a moot point now, truthfully, since millar is no longer with us (and, in fact, was never really here in the first place, truthfully).

For the second part:

I've mentioned "getting RVS moving" and ending the RVS in one post together, and I was questioning mothrax about it.

In regards to the second point, I wanted to post my response I was working on before I had to leave for work so I didn't read the post over. I was referring to Mothrax for the first part of it; I realize my wording was odd. What I meant to say was that Mothrax was trying to get it moving and ending it, and him and AGar were both actively wanting to end RVS.

I do find it interesting that Mothrax stated that he didn't like the RVS, yet still did nothing to get out of it, instead extending RVS even further by posting his joke "his sig told me to" vote.

A variant of the question I asked AGar was also supposed to go to Mothrax: If you hate the RVS so much, why did you place a me too vote instead of giving analysis? If you had to place a non-random vote on a player right now for the purposes of getting them lynched, who would it be and why would their lynch help us?

[Lowell]

unvote, vote diginova

, he doth protest too much.

[mothrax]

I didn't attempt to end it because I haven't seen anything of note to call anyone one yet.

[mothrax]

I do find it interesting that Mothrax stated that he didn't like the RVS, yet still did nothing to get out of it, instead extending RVS even further by posting his joke "his sig told me to" vote.

A variant of the question I asked AGar was also supposed to go to Mothrax: If you hate the RVS so much, why did you place a me too vote instead of giving analysis? If you had to place a non-random vote on a player right now for the purposes of getting them lynched, who would it be and why would their lynch help us?

Because at the time of posting it, I did not have time to reread the thread, and yes, I dislike(hate is a strong word) RVS, but I also realize its necessity to some extent.
If I had to place a vote on someone now?
AGar, because he is unsucessfully bandwagon hoping with out an actual bandwagon, and some of his interactions with Zorblag and Fugi come off as slightly (<---most important word in the post) scummy to me. though that is part of my issue with RVS, yeah you can watch and gauge reactions, but there is never any hint as to whether or not the other person is serious.
Also, did I not achieve what I was hoping for? The very next post after mine was serious discussion.

[Charlie]

This seems like a null tell to me.

[Toogeloo]

Toogeloo - do you feel that mothrax's vote was indicative of scummy behavior, anti-town or RVS shenanigans?

It came off masked as RVS I think, but his vote on Toon Fighter seemed like a way to get another train going, and it's a very good point that he would use the excuse to vote Toon Fighter that it's still Random when he states he doesn't like the RVS at all.

[Toogeloo]

I do find it interesting that Mothrax stated that he didn't like the RVS, yet still did nothing to get out of it, instead extending RVS even further by posting his joke "his sig told me to" vote.

This seems like deflection to me. Digi has two large posts of defensive behavior after AGar questions him, and he slips this single line in as, what appears to be, a deflective statement to redirect the attention back at mothrax.

[Stef]

Didn't have time to read and post today. Will do so tomorrow (posting to avoid a prod)

[mothrax]

Toogeloo - do you feel that mothrax's vote was indicative of scummy behavior, anti-town or RVS shenanigans?

It came off masked as RVS I think,

but his vote on Toon Fighter seemed like a way to get another train going

, and it's a very good point that he would use the excuse to vote Toon Fighter that it's still Random when he states he doesn't like the RVS at all.

Why would I start another train as opposed to hopping on one of the three that had already started? Also, in my orriginal posts I never said I wanted to end rvs, rather "get it moving." I dunno about you but I see a major difference.

also VOTE: diginova
His recent attempts at deflecting attention from him concern me.

[CCARaven4]

Unvote: Fugi

I'm not seeing this small case, I think we can mark it off to RVS. I really don't think we can tell anything out of RVS, no matter how much we analyze stuff. I agree with Charlie, I'm gonna go with a null tell on this one.

[AGar]

This seems like a null tell to me.

What seems like a null-tell to you? BE SPECIFIC.

[Toon Fighter]

@ Porochaz: I didn't self vote -.- the vote count has a mistake

I have a feeling that mothrax's vote was random above anything else, but I still don't like when people vote for me. So watch out mothrax. Toogeloo seems to be reading too much into it.

[Mr.Sandman]

Hello all. Sorry for the lack of activity, I've been having internet problems. I think I've weathered the storm however.

vote mothrax

I do find it interesting that Mothrax stated that he didn't like the RVS, yet still did nothing to get out of it, instead extending RVS even further by posting his joke "his sig told me to" vote.

A variant of the question I asked AGar was also supposed to go to Mothrax: If you hate the RVS so much, why did you place a me too vote instead of giving analysis? If you had to place a non-random vote on a player right now for the purposes of getting them lynched, who would it be and why would their lynch help us?

Because at the time of posting it, I did not have time to reread the thread, and yes, I dislike(hate is a strong word) RVS, but I also realize its necessity to some extent.
If I had to place a vote on someone now?
AGar, because he is unsucessfully bandwagon hoping with out an actual bandwagon, and some of his interactions with Zorblag and Fugi come off as slightly (<---most important word in the post) scummy to me. though that is part of my issue with RVS, yeah you can watch and gauge reactions, but there is never any hint as to whether or not the other person is serious.
Also, did I not achieve what I was hoping for? The very next post after mine was serious discussion.

Toogeloo - do you feel that mothrax's vote was indicative of scummy behavior, anti-town or RVS shenanigans?

It came off masked as RVS I think,

but his vote on Toon Fighter seemed like a way to get another train going

, and it's a very good point that he would use the excuse to vote Toon Fighter that it's still Random when he states he doesn't like the RVS at all.

Why would I start another train as opposed to hopping on one of the three that had already started? Also, in my orriginal posts I never said I wanted to end rvs, rather "get it moving." I dunno about you but I see a major difference.

also VOTE: diginova
His recent attempts at deflecting attention from him concern me.

#82 and #87. In one, you say your preferred choice for where you would place your vote is Agar, but for an unexplained reason, you don't vote him. Why not?

5 posts later, you jump on Toogeloo's idea that digi is deflecting attention and uses it as the reason to place a vote on digi. What's the problem with digi trying to draw attention to another player? It's not as if he wasn't defending himself fully without deflecting attention first. If a player is a townie and they get accused, they can't be expected to clear their name before they start to scum hunt again, given that scum hunting is the biggest town tell.

And I don't see why the rapid change away from AGar, who is attacking digi.

FoS: Lowell

What's wrong with defending yourself against a weak accusation? I don't see how digi's vote in the RVS is particularly scummy for the reasons that have been directed at it

[Porochaz]

Remember to bold or else I might miss it.

[Porochaz]

fixed

[Zorblag]

For what it's worth, I've not been offended at all by people's description of my posting. I'm pretty aware that opinions vary widely about my style. If people think that I'm a long-winded blow-hard who's short on content but long on words and irritating to read it's not going to bother me any. I disagree for the most part and it won't make me change my style but they're welcome to have their opinions.

My experience with Mr.Sandman is pretty limited but reading through the thread just now it was concerning that he had picked up his prod and not responded. I think he's a bit likely to hang back as scum. Seeing that he's posted (with pretty good content) is reassuring on that front.

I agree that it's bizarre that mothrax's stance in Post 82 was that if he was going to vote it would be for AGar but then he votes for diginova in Post 87 with neither of the two of them posting between. That's probably worth getting an explanation about.

Thus far diginova's play looks fine to me. He's responding to attacks but he's doing more than just defending; he's also still probing which is the correct reaction.

I'd like a bit more from Charlie and Wraith than we're getting from their posts thus far but it's still early so I'll see what develops on that front.

@CCARaven4, why not vote someone else when you unvoted?

UNVOTE: Anon
VOTE: mothrax

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[CCARaven4]

@CCARaven4, why not vote someone else when you unvoted?

We're in that awkward stage between RVS and the real game where people will make way too much out of something that may or may not be anything, so I feel as though a vote at this point is useless and will not further our efforts to scumhunt. Of course, if everyone followed this logic, we would get nowhere and the game would stall. Therefore, I will join the largest bandwagon on the hopes of learning some new information, either by his lynch or by his defense.

Vote: diginova

[Charlie]

Specificity in a test measures how good the test is at picking up true negatives as opposed to sensitivity which measures how good a test is in picking up true positives. My sensor for detecting mafia is more specific than sensitive.

At this point page 3 is null to me.

[diginova]

We're in that awkward stage between RVS and the real game where people will make way too much out of something that may or may not be anything, so I feel as though a vote at this point is useless and will not further our efforts to scumhunt. Of course, if everyone followed this logic, we would get nowhere and the game would stall. Therefore, I will join the largest bandwagon on the hopes of learning some new information, either by his lynch or by his defense.

Vote: diginova

Have you read the thread? I have posted all the defense I will give on the matter; I explained my actions and if people feel that it warrants a lynch, there's not much I can say to change that and I'd rather use my time to find scum.

You state that votes are useless, yet instead of providing additional information or specifying who you think is scum, i.e. actually, to use your words, "furthering our efforts to scumhunt", you just jump on a bandwagon. That vote seems scummy to me; it seems like you're just doing what you're asked in order to try to blend in with the crowd. In addition, in 88, you state

I'm not seeing this small case, I think we can mark it off to RVS. I really don't think we can tell anything out of RVS, no matter how much we analyze stuff. I agree with Charlie, I'm gonna go with a null tell on this one.

If you marked the case off to RVS and a null tell just 11 hours earlier, what changed in the interceding 6 posts that caused you to switch a from a null tell to something worthy of a vote?

This is your third post this game, I've already quoted your second, and your first was a random vote. There is a distinct lack of any opinions in your posts. Thus, I ask you this: who are your top suspects right now and

why

?

People that try taking any and all suspicion off them by giving no information and then reversing whenever the slightest question is asked are very scummy, and deserving of an

FOS: CCARaven4

[mothrax]

Just want to say I have more to post once I get home from work this evening.

[Toogeloo]

Just want to say I have more to post once I get home from work this evening.

Why would you even waste space with this post? You have 72 hours from the last post before prods are even necessary, so why give us an update on when you plan to post later that day when it hasn't even been that long since your last post? Are you just trying to appear active?