NY 117: The Vanillaside (Game over)

[RayFrost]

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

Oh, I had forgotten you were even in this game...

Hows abouts somes contents ands explanations?

[xRECKONERx]

Haven't read page four or five.
Why the fuck is SSBF doing IIOA?

Vote: SSBF

[RayFrost]

Haven't read page four or five.
Why the fuck is SSBF doing IIOA?

Vote: SSBF

Oh, hey reck. What's it like to be conf-town?

[xRECKONERx]

It feels pretty grande, actually.

Of course, it's probably bad, because this will encourage to play as shitty as possible and not give a fuck since I'm conf-town.

[RayFrost]

It feels pretty grande, actually.

Of course, it's probably bad, because this will encourage to play as shitty as possible and not give a fuck since I'm conf-town.

If you do that, I reserve all rights to push for your death, mmmkay?

[DemonHybrid]

Lies -

SSBF has "discussed" the matter of lynching reck

, how we should spend our time day by day, and the MPR wagon stuff (along with a style-wise attack on me).

You just have your MPR wagon stuff and this new attack on SSBF soon after people question / attack you about only focusing on MPR

Comparably... you would be scummy from your own standards.

First bolded quote: Notice how I said otherwise. Spyre said I was stretching on my vote of SSBF, and my vote of SSBF was due to the Reck post.

And sure, he talked about how we should spend our time, but that post isn't really relevant to the scumminess of people nor who should vote who. It was merely a suggestion of how to use a minor mechanic of the game, so I didn't really consider it important.

Also: I never said that he's scummy ONLY because he's talking about those things and only those things. You're warping my words around a bit.

[Socrates]

its weird how the two players I called out in my last post have both had wagons develop on them in less then a page. I should probably step away from this game before I start talking myself in circles.

[RayFrost]

First bolded quote: Notice how I said otherwise. Spyre said I was stretching on my vote of SSBF, and my vote of SSBF was due to the Reck post.

And sure, he talked about how we should spend our time, but that post isn't really relevant to the scumminess of people nor who should vote who. It was merely a suggestion of how to use a minor mechanic of the game, so I didn't really consider it important.

Also: I never said that he's scummy ONLY because he's talking about those things and only those things. You're warping my words around a bit.

So... "aside from the other things he's said, he's only said this" - really great argument here. I'm just blown away by your genius. Care to point out which reck post? If you are talking about the only one I've commented on, it came

after

your vote, so yah.

Fair enough.

I'm pointing out standards - you are as guilty for a limited quantity of discussion as SSBF is, and you've jumped ship from MPR as it shows it's not happening to SSBF right when pressure is mounting on him, which can be seen (and is being seen by me) as opportunistic wagon hopping.

[DemonHybrid]

First bolded quote: Notice how I said otherwise. Spyre said I was stretching on my vote of SSBF, and my vote of SSBF was due to the Reck post.

And sure, he talked about how we should spend our time, but that post isn't really relevant to the scumminess of people nor who should vote who. It was merely a suggestion of how to use a minor mechanic of the game, so I didn't really consider it important.

Also: I never said that he's scummy ONLY because he's talking about those things and only those things. You're warping my words around a bit.

So... "aside from the other things he's said, he's only said this" - really great argument here

. I'm just blown away by your genius.

Care to point out which reck post?

If you are talking about the only one I've commented on, it came

after

your vote, so yah.

Fair enough.

I'm pointing out standards - you are as guilty for a limited quantity of discussion as SSBF is, and you've jumped ship from MPR as it shows it's not happening to SSBF right when pressure is mounting on him, which can be seen (and is being seen by me) as opportunistic wagon hopping

.

First bold: Logical clarification: I didn't say that he was scummy because and only because he was only talking about the MPR wagon and dictating RVS votes. Again, you missed the word "otherwise".

Second bold: I'm talking about when SSBF was speculating on Reck, not any of Reck's posts. This one:

@Korts: Keeping xRECKONERx alive until endgame will be a very daunting task to do. We do not want to lynch him for sure and we obviously cannot afford him to be NK'd. With no protection role for the town, scum is going to be hard-pressed to keep him around, especially if he were to give his all to help the town. Prehaps him being completely useless until endgame would help his chance of survival, as scums like useless townies, but we all know how much we hate useless confirmed townies.

Basically, the chances of xRECKONERx living to endgame is very, very slim.

However, while we don't want xRECKONERx to die, one benefit of his death by scums hand is that scum would have to give up one of there power role and become Mafia Goon. It would suck to see a confirmed townie die, but at least scum loses a power role, so that's something to gain from xRECKONERx's death.

Either way, the Town Power Roles should do nothing to him during the Night.

And I had another realization. With a Vigilante, if we lynch scum ToDay, kill scum ToNight, and lynch scum agan Tommorow, town wins. Yes, a Day 2 victory for the Town is possible. But we need to be completely accurate with lynching and the Vigilante killing scums and hope that the Vigilante doesn't die.

Read again: "and my vote of SSBF was due to

the Reck post.

" More word twisting.

Third bold: Dude, my last post before that was when I asked MPR about the contradiction. First things first; I have a life and I do things, plus I'm in 4 other games, so I don't keep up fully with every post all the time. Second, SSBF hardly had any pressure on him whatsoever when I casted my vote. In fact, he has more pressure now than he's ever had before. Point out where pressure was building on him before I made my vote on him.

[RayFrost]

First bold: Logical clarification: I didn't say that he was scummy because and only because he was only talking about the MPR wagon and dictating RVS votes. Again, you missed the word "otherwise".

I didn't miss it. Your otherwise was in your first post in which you- bah, reread your post... I was reading it wrong. I blame having just woken up.

Second bold: I'm talking about when SSBF was speculating on Reck, not any of Reck's posts. This one:

Read again: "and my vote of SSBF was due to

the Reck post.

" More word twisting.

It's not word twisting, it's misunderstanding. Learn the difference. "due to the reck post" was read (by me) as "due to the post made by reck" rather than "due to SSBF's post regarding reck" - can you see the room for misinterpretation here, now that I've made it obvious?

Third bold: Dude, my last post before that was when I asked MPR about the contradiction. First things first; I have a life and I do things, plus I'm in 4 other games, so I don't keep up fully with every post all the time. Second, SSBF hardly had any pressure on him whatsoever when I casted my vote. In fact, he has more pressure now than he's ever had before. Point out where pressure was building on him before I made my vote on him.

1. could not the same be for SSBF?

2. socrates' post, aside from that, I was misremembering the order of our own posting - I thought my post came before yours due to the fact I had been writing it before your post was up

[DemonHybrid]

SSBF contributed to a big chunk of this topic's posts. He's had time to talk about other things.

[RayFrost]

SSBF contributed to a big chunk of this topic's posts. He's had time to talk about other things.

So lots of posts = lots of time?

I guess that means lurkers are completely innocent if they only talk about a couple of things?

[DemonHybrid]

SSBF contributed to a big chunk of this topic's posts. He's had time to talk about other things.

So lots of posts = lots of time?

I guess that means lurkers are completely innocent if they only talk about a couple of things?

Yeah, lots of posts = the ability to take another minute to write something else. Humans are miraculous creatures and can really multitask + manage their time in amazing ways.

[DemonHybrid]

EBWOP: All of this sarcastic logical fallacy posts are starting to wear me down. Of course lurkers aren't innocent if they only talk about a couple of things.

[DemonHybrid]

*aren't always

[Ellibereth]

I've been in one too many games where Elli-town provides more useful stuff than this for me not to feel edgy about him

I HAVE
NO CLUE
WHERE YOU
KEEP
GETTING THIS IMPRESSION.

[Socrates]

Ray and Demon butting heads like this is remarkable as they are both voting for SSBF still.

How likely do you consider each other to be scum? Has this effected your read of SSBF?

[DemonHybrid]

I find Ray to be somewhat Neutral-townish. He's been slipping a bit on his logic and reasoning in attacking me though, but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for right now. Perhaps it is just him waking up, and I'm not about to risk a mislynch on something minor like a few word misunderstandings.

SSBF hasn't posted, so my read on SSBF hasn't changed. Ray hasn't particularly defended him, instead taking the route of attacking me, so my argument with Ray and my suspicions of SSBF are mutually exclusive at this moment.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Considered me surprised that RayFrost actually defended my actions in #98. But I don't have a soft-spot for this, especially since it doesn't really make much sense that he is defending some of my actions, yet is voting me at the same time. Definently will keep a closer eye on him.

I'm also surprised that vezokpiraka hasn't shown up yet. Even thought he is generally considered useless, it's not like him to not have at least made one post, even thought the game has just started.

---

The first bolded quote: How does he know what scum's going to do? Furthermore,
that's -quite- a lot of speculation of the twist we have in this game.

These are likely circumstances that would happen with xRECKONERx, not something that will happen. I am trying to find a conclusion that will be the most likely condition for xRECKONERx to actually survive and be able to help the town.

The second bolded quote: He seems to be very set on how long this game should last. Call it gut, but that kind of speculation subconsciously rings out as somewhat scummy to me. It shows eagerness for the game to be over.

So let me guess, you don't want to find an easy way out to get rid of all three scums? I am not asking the town to rush the Days, as explained before, I want to give the town plenty of time to find scums. On top of that, this would also force the town to find two scums in one Day, one to lynch and one to vig during the Night.

RVS ends for different people at different times. You can't dictate when someone's RVS is over.

I understand that I can't, but staying in RVS-land while everyone else is looking for scums is not something that I like. This encourages active lurking and gives us little to work on. I'm not going to harp on RayFrost for the RVS issue anymore since he's finally producing contents, but I didn't like his RVS post at the time.

This entire post scream wrongness to me.

The first 3/4 of the post is pretty much stating the obvious on not lynching immediately and not waiting until deadline. The whole 29% thing isn't very helpful either... seriously. It's an empty post up top.

His response to socrates on his vote was fine

, but his comment about MPR seems like a lot of stretching.

Wait a minute. You said that this entire post contained of wrongness, yet you said my response to socrates on my vote was fine. That indicates that not everything about my post is wrong, these two things kind of contradict each other. Defense below:
- Point me to one person before that post about the bankable days who suggested that we

both

do not lynch as soon as possible and not wait until deadline. I honestly doubt that was super obvious to everyone.
- About the 29% thing, lynching when we have around 29% of the deadline left will give town more days to find scums overall, leaving more room to scum hunt and less rooms for mistakes.
- How is my comment regarding MehPlusRawr streching? I was responding directly to that post and expressing that I didn't like the post at all.

This looks like not reading hybrid's posts - it can be seen that hybrid said that he's concerned/worried about being lynched

Exactly why do you think that I was skimming DemonHybrid's post? I was responding to the same quotes, but wanted to look at it more.

I beg to differ on the first point - it's happened in the past... even in games I'm in. Second quote - two people can read the same thing and get something different out of it, your post implies the bandwagon will lead to a lynching, which would be the concern about the bandwagon in of itself (which I think is what MPR read as well)

Usually, accidental quick hammers happen within newbie games or intentional scum quick hammers. These put a lot of heat on the scum if they intentionally did it and they are usually lynched without hesistation. Sure there are exceptions to the rule, but considering nearly everyone here has some form of experience with Mafia, I honestly doubt people would be stupid enough to quick hammer.

As for the second point, I did not imply that a bandwagon automatically leads to a lynch. I understand that bandwagons =/= lynches. If I did say that MehPlusRawr was concerned about being lynched, I would have said that he was concerned about being lynched.

---

If you do that, I reserve all rights to push for your death, mmmkay?

We are not trying to kill xRECKONERx here. He is a confirmed townie and we should treat him as such.

How likely do you consider each other to be scum?

Based off the argument that arose between me and RayFrost, If I had to guess between which two people were the most likely of different alignments, it would be those two. I'm leaning town on DemonHybrid and leaning scum on RayFrost as I personally thought DemonHybrid's argument made more sense then RayFrost and I thought RayFrost's defense of me in some areas was pretty unecessary.

[Nachomamma8]

Rudolph with your nose so bright...

won't you guide my sleigh tonight?

Then all the reindeer loved him.

And they shouted out in glee:

"Rudolph the red nosed reindeer...

WHY IS DEMON SOO SCUMMYYY?"





Explanation tomorrow, maybe.

[DemonHybrid]

Work tomorrow from 8-12, then 4:30-10. If anyone has something for me, it has to wait till that gap in the middle or after 10 EST. Sorry

[Incognito]

A lot happened since my last post. I'll try to keep this brief.

First,

unvote

because I liked MehPlusRawr's reaction to pressure. It seemed more townish to me than scummy at the moment.

I don't really see the whole "stretch" thing that SpyreX talks about in his #90 about DemonHybrid. I'd say the only portion of DemonHybrid's 87 that I disagree with is the very bottom portion of it:

The second bolded quote: He seems to be very set on how long this game should last. Call it gut, but that kind of speculation subconsciously rings out as somewhat scummy to me. It shows eagerness for the game to be over.

Can you explain this more? SSBF talked about the game being over quickly from the perspective of town ridding scum quickly, so I don't see how you jumped to the conclusion that he seemed eager to have the game over as a scumbag.

I don't get the Ray/DemonHybrid argument.

I don't really have much of an opinion on SSBF right now. He seems to be tunneling on MPR right now, but I've no clue if he's tunneling him because he genuinely believes he's scum or not.



@SpyreX: Elaborate on your town reads (talking about your second post here)?

[Incognito]

Also, Korts gets the award for worst post of the Day so far. I have no clue why so many people just shrugged it off. I see no point in the discussion of offing Reckoner when he's confirmed town.

And the reward for that post is this:

vote: Korts

[DemonHybrid]

The second bolded quote: He seems to be very set on how long this game should last. Call it gut, but that kind of speculation subconsciously rings out as somewhat scummy to me. It shows eagerness for the game to be over.

Can you explain this more? SSBF talked about the game being over quickly from the perspective of town ridding scum quickly, so I don't see how you jumped to the conclusion that he seemed eager to have the game over as a scumbag.

Because, on a subconscious level, it expresses the fact that he wants the game to be over regardless, which is non-conductive to a pro-town attitude. Sure, he posts it from the view as town wanting to rid scum quickly, however, I find it weird that he needed to express it in such a fashion and might be an attempt to just win over town instead of making a good argument against scum. Town shouldn't be focusing on the end of the game unless they have scum in their sights (as in, one more scum to kill between X amount of people) or it's a LyLo situation (both are high pressure situations); they should be focusing on who's scum and who isn't, and on a psychological level, it rings out as

somewhat

scummy to me, especially on Day 1. (Note that I mentioned that it was somewhat scummy in 87 as well)

[Incognito]

So, I think what you're basically trying to get at is that you feel like his post basically just pointed out the obvious and that it looked like an attempt to seem like he was analyzing stuff when in actuality he wasn't.

Why the emphasis on "somewhat scummy"? You voted him in that post - wouldn't that mean that he was your scummiest pick at that moment?