Newbie 994: Stop! In the Name of Sudo! Game Over!

[seth]

I guess I see where you're coming from, I'm afraid we're going to have to agree to disagree. Let's assume Player A who happens to be scum slips hard. Would you say "Player A's slip was too blatant, I find it hard to believe that he/she is scum." Slips, are slips regardless of how blatant or not they are, and I do think he slipped by being over cautious. On the off chance that he IS town, then it wouldn't hurt to put on some pressure and see whether or not he [needle] will slip or show he is town over time. You said he had some experience. Regardless of how much experience he has, he still has experience does he not? Asking us, the town, whether or not we think that his questions make him seem scummy in our eyes is hardly a RQ. Asking us how much ingame experience we have, or our views on common debate topics such as "lynch all liars" and "quick hammer vs hammer" are RQS. If you feel so inclined as to answer my questions for him, can you explain how his third question induces conversation that will lead to slips and town tells? Don't tell me that the only reason why he asked that question was because the topic was about RQS, because I'm not buying it :/

Cool. I don't really care, up to you.

Here, I'll try to convey what I see it as more clearly with an example:

Player A: Ok guys, what do you all think about RVS vs RQS? Do you guys think I'm scum for asking that?
Player B: Uh. Why would we see such an innocuous question as scummy, and why would you even ask such a thing?

I just don't get why he would ask that. It's seems way too opportunistic based off of his previous question to come off as random. It's like:

Player A: Ok guys, don't lynch me! I'm cop! Um. Do you guys believe that claim?

[Applefarmer]

I would not say "Player A's slip was too blatant, I don't believe it", I agree with you that a slip is a slip. I just didn't think that was a slip - specifically I don't even think he was being cautious, because at that point in the game, he had nothing to be cautious about. You do make a good point about the question kind of sucking, but I still think that's all it was - a question that kind of sucked. Also, this is a Newbie game, so excuse me here while I admit that I wasn't completely aware that there are good RQ's and bad RQ's. I didn't fully consider their effectiveness.

You said he had some experience. Regardless of how much experience he has, he still has experience does he not?

Yes he has *some* experience, and that's not up for debate. But if you think that qualifies him as "experienced", then what were you saying here:

Saying that he's experienced in the game is stretching things

I'm not sure what you are getting at. I, on the other hand, differentiate between someone having some experience with something and someone being deserving of the title "experienced". This is all semantics, but to throw out an example: someone played football for a year or two in middle school - sure they have some experience with football, but I would hardly call them an experienced football player. However, I would still expect them to know better than to bounce the ball off of the ground to get it to his teammate.

Which of the questions that I answered were directed at him? I only really responded directly to your questions from post 47, but as far as I could tell it was all directed at me, although they may have required me to make some guesses about his intentions.

[seth]

Awesome! We can debate about the difference between "having some experience" and how experience pertains to an individual or we can focus on the game. So, let's BW on needle.

[theperson]

Wow. I was a bit busy recently, but I really should have posted something. I'll try to be a lot more active now.

@theperson: why have you not responded for so long if you have visited these forums over the past two days? If it is a time issue, why didn't you take the time to drop us a line?

Sorry. The first day, I checked but didn't really have anything to add. The next day, I was in a bit of a rush. I really should have posted something, I guess. Sorry about that. I'll try to be a lot more active, as I said. There's no excuse for being prodded so early, unless you are gone unexpectedly.

About what's going on about needle, I think it's a null tell. It's his first game, he was probably checking to see if we thought it was OK to have RQS instead of RVS. I think it could have been worded better, but I don't find it scummy.

Seth, why do you want to bandwagon on needle? I see no reason to do that, because I don't find him scummy and it's not really RVS anymore, at least your vote isn't. I don't find needle scummier than any other player, but I do think it's good that you're trying to make a case because it'll help the game get started.

[seth]

'Cause I find him scummier than anyone else and I want to put pressure on him and see if he's town/scum

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@ Danny

I have given a reason, and I've explained why I didn't BW onto Warrior. You're making it sound like I didn't want to start a BW but that I just wanted an excuse to vote needle. I don't see why I would need an excuse to vote needle as town, so that would make me scum FYPOV right? Then why haven't you voted me? Unless there's a reason FYPOV why I'd want to find an excuse to vote needle as town?

You gave your reasons afterward; if you're looking to start a bandwagon it makes sense to lead with your reasons to convince others to join your bandwagon.

And I'm not voting for you because I believe you're more likely to be town than scum and you certainly look more town than some others, including the one I'm voting for, but just because I believe you're town doesn't mean I'm going to poke and prod and things that I find incongruous.

[Applefarmer]

And I'm not voting for you because I believe you're more likely to be town than scum and you certainly look more town than some others,

including the one I'm voting for

, but just because I believe you're town doesn't mean I'm going to poke and prod and things that I find incongruous.

I'm pretty sure you haven't provided any sort of justification for your vote on warriormode. When you made it the vote was seemingly random, and I'm absolutely not seeing where this is coming from. Please correct me if I somehow missed it.

[needle]

Seems like I have quite a bit to catch up on!
I should be making a post late tomorrow, I've got an exam tomorrow morning and on Tuesday as well so I need to find time to work around studying/etc.

(Also - just noticed you're all calling me a him, fyi I'm a girl )

[Beanman]

@seth

Can you please help me understand your post #36? From what I take from it, you are telling iamatree that your vote is RVS, but then you go on to tell danny, that your voting needle because you found him scummy, which means your not RVS. So which is it? If it's not RVS, why did you tell iamtree that it was?

[seth]

Yeah, I used the wrong terminology but what I was trying to say was that the chance that someone would be quicklynched D1 is super unlikely so one shouldn't take an initial vote too seriously. That clear things up?

[Beanman]

All clear.

[iamatree]

Well I"m going to get on the bandwagon here and

Vote: Seth

just because you sound the most suspicous to me so far..

[dimaba]

@warriormode

Let's see what I said shall we?

Anyways, I don't like lengthy posts

because then I have to read them

If anything they may just be long because people are wordy.

It's like you're intentionally twisting things.

Well he did ASK wether or not you were going to read them... So he probably just didn't read your earlier post that well. There's really no need to assume evil intentions. I don't like how this is the second time that you've tried to turn a fairly innocent post into a scumtell (needle's question being the first).

Sorry. The first day, I checked but didn't really have anything to add. The next day, I was in a bit of a rush. I really should have posted something, I guess. Sorry about that. I'll try to be a lot more active, as I said. There's no excuse for being prodded so early, unless you are gone unexpectedly.

About what's going on about needle, I think it's a null tell. It's his first game, he was probably checking to see if we thought it was OK to have RQS instead of RVS. I think it could have been worded better, but I don't find it scummy.

Alright no problem I'm glad you're back and I hope you'll stay with us.
I agree with you about needle, he was probably trying to find out what is and isn't considered scummy around here. After all, he had already done the thing he wanted our opinion about (skipping RVS in favor of RQS) so it's not like our answers would give him a chance to avoid a slipup.

Well I"m going to get on the bandwagon here and

Vote: Seth

just because you sound the most suspicous to me so far..

What about him exactly do you find the most suspicious? Votes are rarely useful if they aren't supported with good reasons.

[seth]

@dimaba

Cool! Maybe we should let him decide what his intentions were? One can easily turn anything into a scumtell or a towntell depending on how one looks at it. From his absence of elaboration, I think that he didn't read carefully enough, otherwise I'd be voting him right now wouldn't I? I don't like how you're twisting my reasoning for my FoS when it has been generally agreed upon that the question in question was strange and superficial towards conveying more conversation.

[theperson]

Seth - what I'm trying to say is...Why do you want US to bandwagon on needle when we clearly don't find her scummy?

I'm also interested to see how needle will respond, and just her reaction to seeing most of this thread is talking about her.

[seth]

'Cause I think she's scummy. Unless you've got a different candidate whom I'd be happy to hear about, there's no point in being picky about BW's concerning people that haven't towntelled.

[Beanman]

I have to agree with ThePerson, and am going to have to wait for her response before making a call one way or another.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm trying to decide if those who've jumped the bad seth bandwagon or those who are waffling just off it are scummier right now, it's a tough call.

Reasons why we should be bandwagoning warriormode:
1) His tone in his first post with any content seems alienated. Good luck? I have a hard time seeing a townie wishing the rest of the town good luck, it seems more natural coming from an outside perspective and the only outside perspective in this game is scum.
2) Votes seth, since I think seth is townie mctownerson this is bad.
3) Super unsubtly tries to get me to move my vote off of him onto someone else by suggesting the value in a bandwagon. It's phrased innocuously but the intent is quite clear.

I would also help bandwagon iamatree for mostly the same reasons at this point.

[needle]

I'm also interested to see how needle will respond, and just her reaction to seeing most of this thread is talking about her.

I'm so popular!

I'm going to try and clear up what I asked, and why I asked it as those seem to be the biggest questions towards me currently.

Player A: Ok guys, what do you all think about RVS vs RQS? Do you guys think I'm scum for asking that?

Do you think wanting to skip RVS in favour of RQS is scummy of me?

I think you have some confusion in what I asked, or a different interpretation at least. I was more asking about my actions rather than my previous questions. I say it's a stretch to call my question cautious as it obviously puts my alignment up for debate.

I'll admit it's probably not the best question, but I didn't feel my first two questions were things that would create some sort of controversy and start a lot of conversation.

I asked my first two with the intention of getting to know everyone I'm playing with, their familiarity with the game, how people post, and think through things.
I didn't expect them to start conversation that would involve the current game at hand. I was at a bit of a loss for what a good question would be to achieve this. I decided on this one because it did two things:

1) It forces people to make some sort of decision about me, and if those decisions differ debate ensues
2) I personally thought opting to do RVS over RQS is a null-tell and I was curious to see who else would think that, who would say it's town, if someone would jump on and say it's scummy. I don't think this is useful information this early in the game, I thought it might be useful later.

I'm not seeing any progress, I'm seeing us arguing about it which is boring and superficial.

To be fair, I think some progress has occurred, there's pressure on me discuss things, and there's a BW forming on you and votes and discussion mean information!

Well I"m going to get on the bandwagon here and

Vote: Seth

just because you sound the most suspicous to me so far..

Why do you think Seth seems suspicious? Is it for the same reasons as the other players? Is there something that he did that seems suspicious that you want to know more reasons for? If so you should ask him. Placing a vote and stating you find that person suspicious isn't really a random vote, but it's also doesn't seem like a well founded one.

[Applefarmer]

I just noticed a few slight inconsistencies in seth's postings and wanted to prod a bit. I don't really have any strong feelings about him either way. Would you mind elaborating on why you feel that he is town?

Without reviewing the posts (no time at the moment, but I will go back through tomorrow), I think I'd board an iamatree wagon before a warriormode wagon. In any case, I'll give a more careful look tomorrow and see how I feel.

[iamatree]

@Seth The only reason I found you suspicous was because you voted dimaba without stating any reasons for your vote on the first page.

And seriously If I think about this logically, that would make Debonair Danny DiPieto the most suspicous as he voted for warriormode (once again on the first page)

I can see people getting on my BW because I made a lynch vote without any "suitable lynch " reason but I'm new and going with my gut feelings~!
IF YOU ARE INNOCENT (AND I'VE WRONGED YOU)
PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE IT!!

I have to say I'd like to take my vote back for the moment as there are 2-3 people I'm suspicous of- Not just Seth!
(b) UNVOTE (/b)

[dimaba]

From his absence of elaboration, I think that he didn't read carefully enough, otherwise I'd be voting him right now wouldn't I?

Then don't insinuate otherwise.

I don't like how you're twisting my reasoning for my FoS when it has been generally agreed upon that the question in question was strange and superficial towards conveying more conversation.

How am I doing that? I agree with you on both those points, I just disagree on wether to believe needle's explanation for it.

Really, I believe that you are town but it would help if you didn't get so stuck on one very very weak scumtell.

I can see people getting on my BW because I made a lynch vote without any "suitable lynch " reason but I'm new and going with my gut feelings~!
IF YOU ARE INNOCENT (AND I'VE WRONGED YOU)
PROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE IT

Soo you are basically asking us in advance to excuse you for an improperly motivated lynch on a townie?

Since 1) you have lacked content in all of your posts, 2) you voted for seth (who I believe is town) initially without reason and then stating a RVS-vote as a reason and 3) you're asking us to absolve you of any responsibility for a poorly motivated lynch in advance, you are my top lynch option right now.

vote: iamatree

My second option would be warriormode, for the reasons stated by DDDP

[Beanman]

Alright. Personally, I don't really find seth all that scummy atm. I lean a little towards town, but not enough to be sure I'm accurate, more of an initial gut read. However I also don't see the scummyness, that seth see's in Needle, either. I think both are doing well in pushing conversation forward.

I do find iamatree curious. He un-votes, strangely, saying he has suspicion still on seth, but also on 2-3 other individuals. But he doesn't reveal who, or what he finds suspicious. This is not very helpful for the rest of us, who are trying to gather information. Can you please share with the class your suspicions?

[warriormode]

I'm trying to decide if those who've jumped the bad seth bandwagon or those who are waffling just off it are scummier right now, it's a tough call.

Reasons why we should be bandwagoning warriormode:
1) His tone in his first post with any content seems alienated. Good luck? I have a hard time seeing a townie wishing the rest of the town good luck, it seems more natural coming from an outside perspective and the only outside perspective in this game is scum.
2) Votes seth, since I think seth is townie mctownerson this is bad.
3) Super unsubtly tries to get me to move my vote off of him onto someone else by suggesting the value in a bandwagon. It's phrased innocuously but the intent is quite clear.

I would also help bandwagon iamatree for mostly the same reasons at this point.

Well if you seriously think I'm scum because of reason #1, well then

Good Luck!

taking this bandwagon to a lynch. This is my first time playing on mafiascum as it is for the other person I was talking to, so if saying good luck makes you scum, then I must be scum every game i play with you.

Reason #2- At least I have better reasoning then your reason #1.

Reason #3- You didn't even answer my question about bandwagoning. How can you justify that I was trying to make you move your vote. I don't care if you have your vote on me. Especially with these reasons.

It seems like your coming with any crappy excuse possible to start a bandwagon which I'm finding scummy.

Unvote, Vote:Debonair Danny DiPietro

[warriormode]

Sorry you did answer my question. but I still stick to all of my other statements