Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)

[Iecerint]

@ Furco -- It is my personal interpretation that your unusual style is an affectation, and that you have a main account elsewhere that is better-behaved. Also, even if that's not the case, the flagrancy of those 2 posts after Friend's question look like answer-by-example to me.

[Socrates]

Because lynching either is a plus?

He's scummier than anyone else who has posted.

Yes. Mislynching, always a plus.

[Sebguer]

He's declaring someone's 98% scum from four posts. One of those posts was an RVS of Furc, the second was a "why do I need to justify my RVS?", third was "policy lynches are better for a vig to do", and last was calling out Furc's bullshit.

Furc is scum.

[Furcolow]

to the people voting for me: I haven't ever been lynched as scum.

[Furcolow]

Sebguer, if you are town, you need to shut up

[Furcolow]

and by shut up, i mean let me respond to people who are actually competant, without forcing me to spam one liners

[animorpherv1]

to the people voting for me: I haven't ever been lynched as scum.

Nice Appeal to Fear...

[Furcolow]

@ Furco -- It is my personal interpretation that your unusual style is an affectation, and that you have a main account elsewhere that is better-behaved. Also, even if that's not the case, the flagrancy of those 2 posts after Friend's question look like answer-by-example to me.

I actually do not have a main that is better behaved, and I would say that my tone and word choice are not affectations. I had to look up that word. I like it. My play, however, is an affectation. I "play the fool". Good call.

I actually have a very good sense of who is scum based on the reactions that I have had so far. Some of the people who are "sitting on the fence" with my play = town. Most of the people who are like the third, fourth, and fifth people to attack me will generally be scum. I use what I've done more than people expect.

I'll give an example: I'll post a list using an RNG. They don't see the reason for me doing things such as trying to lynch using an RNG. They say "using an RNG is scummy, you cannot lynch with an RNG." My reason for doing it isn't under the delusion of actually being able to lynch someone with it, but to gather information based upon how people react to it.

[Furcolow]

to the people voting for me: I haven't ever been lynched as scum.

Nice Appeal to Fear...

haven't heard that one before.
what are they coming out with new terms everyday so people can look smart?

[animorpherv1]

I just saw it myself.

[Furcolow]

I'm also not saying "i am not be scum this game", because that is pointless. You all don't know whether or not I am scum. I can try to convince you all through my play, but that has been failing so far.

Would you all rather me 1) stop taking the spotlight as a town, and potentially get mislynched through not defending myself as actively?
2) continue taking the spotlight, and posting like I am?

[animorpherv1]

I always prefer activity over lurking.

[Friend]

@ Furco -- It is my personal interpretation that your unusual style is an affectation, and that you have a main account elsewhere that is better-behaved. Also, even if that's not the case, the flagrancy of those 2 posts after Friend's question look like answer-by-example to me.

I actually do not have a main that is better behaved, and I would say that my tone and word choice are not affectations. I had to look up that word. I like it. My play, however, is an affectation. I "play the fool". Good call.

I actually have a very good sense of who is scum based on the reactions that I have had so far. Some of the people who are "sitting on the fence" with my play = town. Most of the people who are like the third, fourth, and fifth people to attack me will generally be scum. I use what I've done more than people expect.

I'll give an example: I'll post a list using an RNG. They don't see the reason for me doing things such as trying to lynch using an RNG. They say "using an RNG is scummy, you cannot lynch with an RNG." My reason for doing it isn't under the delusion of actually being able to lynch someone with it, but to gather information based upon how people react to it.

Socrates: This post feels

just

like VI-town to me. He's posted things similar to this that gave me that impression earlier.

Thats exactly what I mean by riding shotgun on the wagon. You aren't going to push the wagon, but yay pressure!

Why is this bad? The wagon isn't going to lead to a lynch on page 5. I'm obviously not trying to distance myself from the wagon, and pressure leads to information which leads to finding scum.

As for furc's alignment, I think everything he has done so far he would probably do regardless of alignment. He's frazzled and getting pushed around by the other players. This wagon is dumb, but not the kind of dumb that says anything about his alignment. Unless you are scum, in which case he is town.

This is a complete cop-out. You acted like the wagon had reached the point where we could draw conclusions from his reactions, and then you provide none. I find that scummy.

Because lynching either is a plus?

He's scummier than anyone else who has posted.

Yes. Mislynching, always a plus.

This is exactly what I said about ani, and you dismissed it and called ani town. What is the difference between Sebguer and ani?

[Plum]

I suspect some of the players that haven't posted yet don't know that day 1 has begun, as there was no notification as such. Minor town tell for all of them.

Mod: can you notify the players that haven't posted yet that the game has begun?

Why would scum be more likely to realize Day 1 began than scum?

Man I want to see a VI vs. VI fight.
I don't think I've ever really got to see one of those before.
We could even take side betting.

I want to stop that sort of thing before it starts, but it looks like it's too late.

Town Cohesion will come through people waking up and performing as a collective as opposed to subjective. WE should pressure together, tunnel together, FoS together, and lynch together. I want not one to be held accountable, but all. This will root out scum if we do it, mark my words.

How? And I note you broke your own three-paragraph policy in the very post you suggested it. Classy.

@Socrates: First off, I'm not on the wagon, which you seem to have missed. I don't want him lynched but I'm not fighting actively to diffuse it or anything - it's just an early-day wagon and those are always good. I don't think he has said enough to draw a conclusion, yet, honestly, although I'm leaning towards town. What do you think? Is he town or scum?

Thats exactly what I mean by riding shotgun on the wagon. You aren't going to push the wagon, but yay pressure!

Yes, this. The Townies who aren't policy-lynch pushers are more likely to be the sort who take the theory arguments against policy lynches in general seriously and fight all policy lynches staunchly. But the very reaction:

@Socrates: First off, I'm not on the wagon, which you seem to have missed. I don't want him lynched but I'm not fighting actively to diffuse it or anything - it's just an early-day wagon and those are always good.

It gives me strong feeling of 'who me? but I didn't do anything scummy at all; how could you suspect me if I'm not on the wagon?!' out of scum who thought he'd made a safe choice which wouldn't draw undue attention.

I don't happen to like his analysis of Ani's logic here, either:

1. Furcolow acts scummy as town.
2. Furcolow is in this game and acting scummy.
3. You want to policy lynch him for his behavior, even though he acts this way as town.
4. You want to lynch town.

Ani never said Furcolow acts scummy as Town; he said that he provides poor reasoning and acts scummy across the board. He never said Furcolow acting scummy = Furcolow Town. The implication made, that Ani had reason to believe that Furcolow was, due to his behavior, Town, is completely illegitimate.

Not sure if I'm on the right track or not, but UNVOTE: Wraith
VOTE: Friend

Re: Furcolow and Ani. I dislike Furcolow more. Furcolow's shifting around of his strong suspicion seems, well, doesn't seem as organic as Town-based play like this I've seen, possibly because it hasn't been accompanied by votes, just provoking suggestions. His aggression is related and annoying, but by itself it's not a sign of anything. Shoving various things in our faces - like that he's never been lynched as scum - is distracting and WIFOM-y; if he's doing it on purpose as Town, he's being disingenuous. The three-paragraph policy and related suggestions seemed to test his ability to direct the Town at this stage in the game; in any case, the policy itself is a poor idea; I'm still thinking about its scumminess, but I should have some more words on that soonish. It all may be a front on Furc's part, but I'm starting to dislike playing with him, at any rate; it may get better. Ani seems null, maybe slightly Townish from what I recall of his play in other games.

PREVIEW EDIT:

Why is this bad? The wagon isn't going to lead to a lynch on page 5. I'm obviously not trying to distance myself from the wagon, and pressure leads to information which leads to finding scum.

Who says you're not trying to distance yourself from the wagon? I think it's eminently possible.

[Friend]

I am admitting that I'm not trying to distance myself from the wagon. I've said I support the wagon. That's the opposite of distancing.

Ani never said Furcolow acts scummy as Town; he said that he provides poor reasoning and acts scummy across the board. He never said Furcolow acting scummy = Furcolow Town. The implication made, that Ani had reason to believe that Furcolow was, due to his behavior, Town, is completely illegitimate.

The only meta ani had of Furc was his TOWN META. That means that he had only seen Furcolow acting scummy AS TOWN.

[Furcolow]

in relation to ani/sebguer: ani has a brain, at least. What I mean to say is, at least ani thinks for himself.

@plum, pardon you not liking my play so far, and I'm not familiar with "disingenuous". dis- usually implies negative connotations, and ingenious is definitely what I am, as I have a very high I.Q.

I'm assuming you're saying that if I'm town my mental capability is in question, and I take offense to that. I appreciate you saying that I have strong ability, or at least implying it.

@Friend, you are admitting to what? Being scum? Oh.

[Furcolow]

I'm also not saying "i am not be scum this game", because that is pointless. You all don't know whether or not I am scum. I can try to convince you all through my play, but that has been failing so far.

Would you all rather me 1) stop taking the spotlight as a town, and potentially get mislynched through not defending myself as actively?
2) continue taking the spotlight, and posting like I am?

vote 1 or 2, please

[Furcolow]

"i am not be scum this game" LOL. I'm such an idiot.

[Friend]

@Friend, you are admitting to what? Being scum? Oh.

What?

[Furcolow]

You feel like scum buddying up to a mislynch to try and be like "Oh, well, you guys, I defended him"

[Socrates]

Socrates: This post feels just like VI-town to me. He's posted things similar to this that gave me that impression earlier.

Could you please attempt to articulate this impression more clearly? An important question to make such an articulation easier: What do you think a scum-VI would do differently?

"Why is this bad? The wagon isn't going to lead to a lynch on page 5. I'm obviously not trying to distance myself from the wagon, and pressure leads to information which leads to finding scum.

See my second paragraph of that post.

This is a complete cop-out. You acted like the wagon had reached the point where we could draw conclusions from his reactions, and then you provide none. I find that scummy.

I knew you would say this. I am NOT the one that intimated that wagons are productive. In fact, I specifically said that I think such attitudes are bologna, and me demanding content from you is me calling you out on such bullshit.

I never once said that Sebguer was scum.

PREVIEW:

Why would scum be more likely to realize Day 1 began than scum?

The scum quicktopic, of course. (And before anyone says anything, I always assume scum can talk during the pre-game.)

[Plum]

@plum, pardon you not liking my play so far, and I'm not familiar with "disingenuous". dis- usually implies negative connotations, and ingenious is definitely what I am, as I have a very high I.Q.

I'm assuming you're saying that if I'm town my mental capability is in question, and I take offense to that. I appreciate you saying that I have strong ability, or at least implying it.

No, I think you're intelligent enough (wait, were you the one mentioning his ACT scores after I died in Stars Aligned II or was that someone else?).
I actually think we both may have used the word incorrectly. I mean that you're making a poor estimation of what will actually help the Town, if you're doing it in an attempt to help the Town.

Soc - fair enough, I suppose.

I am admitting that I'm not trying to distance myself from the wagon. I've said I support the wagon. That's the opposite of distancing.

Ani never said Furcolow acts scummy as Town; he said that he provides poor reasoning and acts scummy across the board. He never said Furcolow acting scummy = Furcolow Town. The implication made, that Ani had reason to believe that Furcolow was, due to his behavior, Town, is completely illegitimate.

The only meta ani had of Furc was his TOWN META. That means that he had only seen Furcolow acting scummy AS TOWN.

Saying that you're supporting the wagon while also screaming 'but I'm not actually voting him!' screams distancing from something which you are actually actively pushing.

When you made that post, the bit you commented on, Ani had mentioned Furc's meta in general. He said "I'm lynching you because I've taken a look in several other games, and you have provided

terrible

reasoning in every game, and you act even more scummy than I DO." He made no mention of whether Furc had been Town, scum, or a mix in those several games from which the meta had been drawn. He implied no likeliness of Furc to be Town in consideration of his play, only that he consistently provided poor reasoning and acted scummy.

[Beefster]

Holy cow. 5 pages already? I was gone like 20 hours...

Unvote

FoS: Furcolow, Friend

I can see either or both of them being scum. It's just gut right now, but I'll try to get in a little more logic once I unwind from school a bit.

I'm gonna wait for the next votecount before placing a vote though.

[Socrates]

Ani never said Furcolow acts scummy as Town; he said that he provides poor reasoning and acts scummy across the board. He never said Furcolow acting scummy = Furcolow Town. The implication made, that Ani had reason to believe that Furcolow was, due to his behavior, Town, is completely illegitimate.

The only meta ani had of Furc was his TOWN META. That means that he had only seen Furcolow acting scummy AS TOWN.

You are misinterpreting Ani's intentions. He is not voting Furc because he thinks Furc is scum, he is voting Furc because he wants Furc dead no matter what he alignment is. That is the definition of a policy lynch. Are you doing this on purpose?

[Socrates]

Holy cow. 5 pages already? I was gone like 20 hours...

Unvote

FoS: Furcolow, Friend

I can see either or both of them being scum. It's just gut right now, but I'll try to get in a little more logic once I unwind from school a bit.

I'm gonna wait for the next votecount before placing a vote though.

In an absolute vacuum, who would you vote? Do you think that could be scum together?