Mafia on Holy Orders (Game Over!)

[Vi]

Oh. It just made it sound like the game state had become "scum-win if they don't think about things too carefully." Like 2/2, but town might grant Vig to someone, or something.

I thought about that sort of thing happening, but late in the game I decided to just end it if the Demons got to half of the player list. There were a few ways to cheese the system built in but toward the end I got fed up with considering them given cheaply two months of game could have been thrown.

Tar could have been killed if they played Trump Card prematurely for whatever reason. The working plan would have been something like this.

TAR: Demons vote No Lynch to win!
GG: -Still small voice- Shoot sottyrulez
Plum: kk
TAR: :O

...yeah, cheeztastic. Fortunately this never came close to happening.

Incidentally, the scum DID forget about Trumping into 3P LyLo, which would have been a nifty alternative to 5P Judgment depending on which scenario would have been easier to get a mislynch in.

[Fate]

Yeah gg?

[Fate]

WAIT WE LOST?

WHAT?

PLUM.


PLUMMMMMMMMM

[Gammagooey]

OH PLEASE.

PLUM WAS BETTER THAN YOU IN EVERY WAY MR. MOTHRAX IS TOWN GUYZ.

[Fate]

I DONT REMEMBER SAYING THAT>

I DONT REMEMBER MUCH OF ANY OF THIS GAME CEPT I DIED N1

>_>
<_<

I WOULDVE BEEN RIGHT EVEntUALLY THOUGH IT WAS D1 CHRIST

[Gammagooey]

Oh wait I just realized something.

If I had given the vig when I replaced in Sotty would have known about it THAT DAY and boom no more awesome-Plum, and if I had given a doc to protect her the same day too even worse when they both die consecutively, with Plum first due to roleblocker.

I NO LONGER HAVE ANY REGRETS. I do have le big question though.
Why kill Friend over confirmed-town CKD?

[Zachrulez]

Also, I'm in the camp of people who believe roleblockers should cancel each other out if they target each other, but I at least understand the logic of Vi's role resolution on that matter.

That doesn't help if one Roleblocker also tries to kill. I just chose an arbitrary tie-breaker that favored faster action submission.

It does. By canceling out, the kill succeeds.

GG, Zach, how were your roles? Any changes?

I'm not really seeing any issues with the scum side powers, but at a glance some of the town power grants seem a little bit too cheap. (As far as cost.) Maybe it's a perspective problem on my part.

Maybe some of our powers could have been cheaper and some of the town powers could have been more expensive. (Though some of the more powerful ones were expensive enough to keep them from stacking a lot of it.)

I did enjoy being a god, the only thing that frustrated me at points was having no actual power over the kills. We had to sit by and hope the scum actions got sent in on time.

[SocioPath]

WAIT WE LOST?

<3

[Zachrulez]

I do have le big question though.
Why kill Friend over confirmed-town CKD?

We didn't know for sure what Piercing eye actually did. (We guessed.)

We also did lobby for a CKD kill but we had no actual power over the kill.

[Fate]

Killing me wasn't a blunder btw

[Vi]

Why kill Friend over confirmed-town CKD?

This ties into

I did enjoy being a god, the only thing that frustrated me at points was having no actual power over the kills. We had to sit by and hope the scum actions got sent in on time.

which ties into how I think about half of the scumkills were mistakes. Fate's included. I'm not sure about Friend though; scum-Friend would have just sat on that message you gave him, no?

I'm not really seeing any issues with the scum side powers, but at a glance some of the town power grants seem a little bit too cheap. (As far as cost.) Maybe it's a perspective problem on my part.

Maybe not. I didn't anticipate a MEGA ROLE RUSH at the end of the game from Town. But I didn't want it to always take F O R E V E R for you to be able to do anything cool with the game. Ah well, most of those values were obtained through guesswork~

[Zachrulez]

Why kill Friend over confirmed-town CKD?

This ties into

I did enjoy being a god, the only thing that frustrated me at points was having no actual power over the kills. We had to sit by and hope the scum actions got sent in on time.

which ties into how I think about half of the scumkills were mistakes. Fate's included. I'm not sure about Friend though; scum-Friend would have just sat on that message you gave him, no?

Yeah, Friend was a good kill. Relaying the message was very pro-town.

I'm not really seeing any issues with the scum side powers, but at a glance some of the town power grants seem a little bit too cheap. (As far as cost.) Maybe it's a perspective problem on my part.

Maybe not. I didn't anticipate a MEGA ROLE RUSH at the end of the game from Town. But I didn't want it to always take F O R E V E R for you to be able to do anything cool with the game. Ah well, most of those values were obtained through guesswork~[/quote]

[Zachrulez]

]Maybe not. I didn't anticipate a MEGA ROLE RUSH at the end of the game from Town. But I didn't want it to always take F O R E V E R for you to be able to do anything cool with the game. Ah well, most of those values were obtained through guesswork~

Something to consider is that town roleblocker can actually be more powerful than a cop given that it doubles as a successful investigation AND a doc protect when it hits.

[Zachrulez]

Also a thought Fiona had was that she feels the town power grants were too cheap when compared with our costs, AND in also considering the cost of our administrative abilities to simply organize the scumteam better.

[Zachrulez]

Not that we think the system is fundamentally broken. We think it can be balanced much better with a few small tweaks. (A lot of the costs for the more powerful town power abilities were given appropriate expense.)

[Zachrulez]

Also not sure why their watcher grant was so expensive, is there something I'm missing about it that makes it more powerful than a tracker?

[Iecerint]

How was CKD confirmed town way back when? I mean I thought he was town, but several players (SPscum and Furc, I think) kept repeating Soc's mantra on us over and over. <_<

And yeah, I wouldn't have thought 2 scum was at all plausible except for how I interpreted Vi's comment. I thought she was like ALERT: PLZ DON'T START GLOATING YET, YE SCUM.

[Iecerint]

I'm OK with sharing the Furc-Iec QT.

[Gammagooey]

Man this post is so ninja'd.

If I was Friend-scum I probably would have outed the message anyway-If the town guy can give ONE message he can probably give another (even if it would have costed more points and been in a different form) and if that happened after holding onto the message then scum get double-screwed.

As for role costs, roleblocker/jailer might have been a bit cheap but for the most part sotty had multiple ways of messing with just about every role if they knew it was in the game- unstoppable against roleblocker/jailer, ninja for tracker/watcher, PGO for aaaaaanything, etc. If it was JUST me giving out powers without a scum seraph then scum might have had a real hard time but with the scum seraph helping them out no one role could continually mess with the scum except for the vig, which got countered pretty hard by the PGO.

CKD was only confirmed town to me, and Sotty got a hint at it through seeing that Piercing Eye targeted him but not the result from the action.

[Iecerint]

Was Haylen's OMG MY PM BOX WAS FULL thing all planned? O_O

[Friend]

No, Fate, you were dead-set on me being scum. I wasn't.

[Gammagooey]

GG, Zach, how were your roles? Any changes?

Oh yeah aside from the minor point stuff-
Either have it so scum can't use Judgement/Trump Card in LYLO OR make it so it won't endgame the town until night if they're used at LYLO so town has a chance to put in a vig/doublevoter in the game to save it- I'd prefer the non-usage in LYLO personally.

If it's run instant-night again I'd make the roleblockers block any day actions made in the NEXT day after the instant-night so day vig-powah isn't overpowered if it gets outed. I think I mentioned this in the quicktopic earlier but since you're askin'.

[Fate]

No, Fate, you were dead-set on me being scum. I wasn't.

D1

Reads change at the drop of the hat from a D1 flip, and it only snowballs from there.

mmmmmmmhm

[Locke Lamora]

I told you there was no reason one of the hidden players couldn't be scum. Take that, Friend

Well played scum, great distancing from Agar & Mothrax. I thought my lynch was pretty terrible but I guess I didn't help much by not being very active for much of the game.

[Locke Lamora]

Oh, and really cool setup, Vi. I really like the idea of the two higher powers controlling events and giving out the abilities at a cost. As always, the game was modded very efficiently too, particularly with the nightless aspect.