Mini 1036 - DEFCON Mafia - Over

[Hinduragi]

I'm suspicious of Percy moreso than Enigma. Check it out, he asks the abilities question then states that he's already sent his actions in. I don't really get how that's going to do anything aside from sidetracking discussion.

[Andrius]

Percy/SpyreX/Faraday scumteam?
That was easy.

And I sent in my thing.

[Enigma]

Well, not really sure what you want by good discussion, but I'm pretty sure we can all agree that when/if we claim, we should claim abilities we have as well as how/when we used them. Though a silo is going to be the equivalent of VT and at least two players will have it.

I agree with this but what I meant as the pointless discussion was the 'Game Mechanics Discussion' the 'Likelihood of not getting your X choice discussion' and the 'What abilities are pointless discussion'. We're almost into DEFCON 3 and should be beginning scumhunting now, not having pointless discussions that take up the majority if not all of players posts. Pointless discussion is fine. Pointless discussion taking up most of the focus of players is not.

@Everyone to help get on track- Who is your top FoS and why?

Mine would be Enigma for basically starting all three of the previously mentioned discussions either directly or indirectly.

I'm suspicious for trying to encourage so people can begin scum hunting? I would like to have seen you begin scum hunting had I not done any of the above, let's head to RVS now shall we 1 week into the game?

Papa Zito, why am I suss?

[Doombunny9]

I'm suspicious for trying to encourage so people can begin scum hunting? I would like to have seen you begin scum hunting had I not done any of the above, let's head to RVS now shall we 1 week into the game?

ROFL. You have done NOTHING even remotely related to scumhunting. If talking about pointless topics encourages people to begin scumhunting then by all means I am wrong. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't.

I'm suspicious of Faraday - looks to me that he was trying to stifle the discussion without providing anything else to talk about (a'la Doombunny9's latest post).

I was not stifling discussion. As I said before the kinds of discussions you and Enigma were having were fine just as long as that's not all you're talking about and I have provided in the shove in the right direction with the question I asked town which seemed to provoke plenty of good discussion.

[SpyreX]

Actually I have one important mechanic question that my tired eyes refuse to fix:

@Mod: does the defcon level reset at the start of a day?

(No, the DEFCON level will continue to decrease numerically until it reaches DEFCON 1. The game will then remain in DEFCON 1 until a win condition is achieved. --AGM)

[Percy]

@Enigma

: I certainly agree that some abilities are more potentially useful than others, but I'd take any of the three you listed before a missile silo...

As for "you are engaging in pointless discussion therefore you are scum" line of reasoning, it's crap. Most games I've been a part of start with an RVS to generate some suspicion worth pursuing. General mechanics discussion is taking the place of the RVS in this game, for obvious reasons - we have to talk about something, and there's not much else to talk about. I think we've been good at being careful not to give scum insight into our choices, and now based off that discussion, people are forming preliminary reads and suspicions that they want to follow up. But to turn around and say that the entire discussion was pointless and anyone who engaged in it is automatically scummy is illogical and simplistic.

Doombunny's encouragement to start scumhunting is good, but his conclusion is , I've got a town read on Enigma atm.

If talking about pointless topics encourages people to begin scumhunting then by all means I am wrong. Unfortunately for you, it doesn't.

And most people in normal games vote based on who has the cutest Avatar or who was scum in another game. Pointless shit, until it isn't anymore.

Also, I wasn't ever discussing mechanics to try and help me make up my mind about my choices - I made up my list when I confirmed.

Right now my (mild) pings are from Escoulta, Zhero and Hinduragi. I imagine the scum are talking a lot right now in their QTs to skirt around Espionage and try to balance their preference lists, so lurking and/or posting-for-the-sake-of-posting are mild scumtells for me, and they seem to fit the bill. Faraday almost does, but something about his attitude rubs me in my town places.

[AurorusVox]

I'm suspicious of Faraday - looks to me that he was trying to stifle the discussion without providing anything else to talk about (a'la Doombunny9's latest post).

I was not stifling discussion. As I said before the kinds of discussions you and Enigma were having were fine just as long as that's not all you're talking about and I have provided in the shove in the right direction with the question I asked town which seemed to provoke plenty of good discussion.

That's what I was saying. I think you've misunderstood my point - where I said "a'la Doombunny9's latest post" I meant that your latest post was an example of "providing something else to talk about". Replace the "a'la" with "unlike" and you should get what I meant.

[Zhero]

Starting pointless discussion is a null tell when the thread had been largely empty until that point. Enigma's thoughts aren't necessarily pointless, either. If you list 4 choices and end up with the fourth, this means you know the other three are in the game. You may not know if town or scum hold them, but it's still information, and more information for town is not a bad thing.

I agree with Aurorus's points on Faraday and Percy's points on lurkers.

My choices have been sent in.

[Percy]

I agree with ... Percy's points on lurkers.

I was calling you scum there, guy - calling you out on spending lots of time in your QT and not much in this thread, coming in only to make a few platitudes based on a skim read before getting back to making seekrit codes and plotting with your Warsaw buddies.......

[Papa Zito]

And personally if I was scum I would spam something that would incriminate a townie (etc etc) 10 times and hope it would get intercepted. A whole case of WIFOM. Useless.

That was just a preliminary skim read on the first day. Since then I have actually read through all the rest and given each role a bit of thought. In particular the thought of sending out messages with the intention that they are intercepted which I didn't realize on my first read.

This bit right here.

[Enigma]

@PZ
Are you emphasizing that bit or are you calling me suss because of that.
I believe above is a valid thought and it's reasonable for any a town player to bring up so that others are aware of a potentially broken ability before they pick it. Don't exactly see how that is a feasible scum tell.
Please try again later.

[Enigma]

Your reasoning actually gives me scummy bad vibes PZ.

Scum would want to encourage people to pick a broken ability because thats one less power role on the opposite team and they can even use this role to their advantage. Pointing this out is actually very contrary to the scum's agenda.
It is not in town's best interest to discredit a logic that is beneficial to town.

Unless someone wants to provide further input and discussion regarding my interpretation of the roles and how they are inaccurate, I'm going to assume that everyone agrees to some degree with my views.

[Faraday]

I'm suspicious of Faraday - looks to me that he was trying to stifle the discussion without providing anything else to talk about (a'la Doombunny9's latest post).

okay

I don't really agree with percy's lurker point, in practise. In theory it sounds like something scum would do but I know when I'm scum with daytalk it tends to get me to post slightly more than usual. I don't think it takes a lot of effort to keep up with a quicktopic and game thread either. Zhero agreeing with it being scummy is funny though.

[Faraday]

As for "you are engaging in pointless discussion therefore you are scum" line of reasoning, it's crap.

Who are you talking to here? (who's engaging in this line of reasoning?)

[Enigma]

Actually I have one important mechanic question that my tired eyes refuse to fix:

@Mod: does the defcon level reset at the start of a day?

I already asked this:
Defcon level decreases at the beginning of each day phase.

[Doombunny9]

As for "you are engaging in pointless discussion therefore you are scum" line of reasoning, it's crap.

For the last time engaging in pointless discussion is fine. Starting pointless discussion and only contributing to the pointless discussion is not.

That's what I was saying. I think you've misunderstood my point - where I said "a'la Doombunny9's latest post" I meant that your latest post was an example of "providing something else to talk about". Replace the "a'la" with "unlike" and you should get what I meant.

If you list 4 choices and end up with the fourth, this means you know the other three are in the game. You may not know if town or scum hold them, but it's still information, and more information for town is not a bad thing.

The discussion I was referring to (Which I have to admit Enigma only indirectly started) was about the liklihood of that happening. I don't know about you but that's pretty damn pointless.

Scum would want to encourage people to pick a broken ability because thats one less power role on the opposite team and they can even use this role to their advantage. Pointing this out is actually very contrary to the scum's agenda.

Unless scum wanted to look town...

In actuality though PZ's reasoning is crap. Saying you changed your mind about something when you take a closer look is not scummy.

[Doombunny9]

Somehow what I typed in response to aurous didn't go through. It was pretty much an "Ah ok, I get it" response.

[SocioPath]

Does it actually matter how unlikely it is? I can't see a really good reason to discuss it at the moment.

This. The "What abilities are useful and what aren't" discussion really isn't helping out a lot either especially since most people have already sent in their choices. Sure its harmless and isn't hurting the town... Unless its all that people are talking about.

YES.
DISCUSSION OF ANY NATURE HINDERS THE TOWN.
OH WAIT.

The fact that this thread hasn't been the most active ALREADY and then you come in ans say "DONT DO THIS! PEOPLE HAVE SENT THEIR CHOICES"...?

Wat.

You know, time flows in a pretty constant forward motion.
You pick out a random quote in the discussion, and criticize it because PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY PICKED THEIR CHOICES?
THE QUOTE YOU RANDOMLY QUOTED WAS 21 HOURS INTO A 72 HOUR PHASE.

YOU REALLY THINK EVERYONE JUMPED THE GUN THE SECOND DEF4 POPPED UP AND FLOODED WITH LISTS OF CHOICES?
BEFORE IT WAS EVEN REALLY DISCUSSED IN THREAD THE MECHANICS OF ROLES WORKING?!
OR "OH GEE SOME OF THESE ROLES MESH TOGETHER BETTER THAN OTHERS"?

I DONT KNOW WHAT THREADS YOUVE BEEN DISCUSSING IN, BUT IN THIS THREAD IT WAS KINDA IMPORTANT.
*COUGH*

[Zhero]

I agree with ... Percy's points on lurkers.

I was calling you scum there, guy - calling you out on spending lots of time in your QT and not much in this thread, coming in only to make a few platitudes based on a skim read before getting back to making seekrit codes and plotting with your Warsaw buddies.......

Yeah, I get that. There's no codes and buddies here but I agree with your logic.

[Faraday]

YOU REALLY THINK EVERYONE JUMPED THE GUN THE SECOND DEF4 POPPED UP AND FLOODED WITH LISTS OF CHOICES?
BEFORE IT WAS EVEN REALLY DISCUSSED IN THREAD THE MECHANICS OF ROLES WORKING?!

I think this is pretty likely actually, well not everyone but it'd not surprise me if a lot of people picked their choices as soon as they could.

v/la for 5 days with limited/no access, probably will have some but plan for the worst blah blah blah.

[Elscouta]

I must say that I have a lot of doubts on the benefits of "scumhunting" while no votes are present, hence my relative silence. Hopefully the game will start soon.

[SpyreX]

I had my picks in pretty fast.

MY IDEA STILL WOULD HAVE WORKED PROBABLY THOUGH

[Hinduragi]

I thought it was "first come first serve" ability distribution at first before I did a re-read of the first post(s). So, yeah, my picks were in pretty fast too.

[Doombunny9]

YES.
DISCUSSION OF ANY NATURE HINDERS THE TOWN.
OH WAIT.

The fact that this thread hasn't been the most active ALREADY and then you come in ans say "DONT DO THIS! PEOPLE HAVE SENT THEIR CHOICES"...?

Wat.

I'm getting tired of responding to this...

For the LAST time. Pointless discussion is fine. I see nothing wrong with discussing about how useless some of the abilities are. I do see a problem with people focusing on nothing but these pointless discussion in stead of actual scumhunting and the game itself. If anyone else still feels like saying this kind of stuff then by all means go ahead. Just know you aren't going to get a response anymore.

You know, time flows in a pretty constant forward motion.
You pick out a random quote in the discussion, and criticize it because PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY PICKED THEIR CHOICES?
THE QUOTE YOU RANDOMLY QUOTED WAS 21 HOURS INTO A 72 HOUR PHASE.

YOU REALLY THINK EVERYONE JUMPED THE GUN THE SECOND DEF4 POPPED UP AND FLOODED WITH LISTS OF CHOICES?
BEFORE IT WAS EVEN REALLY DISCUSSED IN THREAD THE MECHANICS OF ROLES WORKING?!
OR "OH GEE SOME OF THESE ROLES MESH TOGETHER BETTER THAN OTHERS"?

I DONT KNOW WHAT THREADS YOUVE BEEN DISCUSSING IN, BUT IN THIS THREAD IT WAS KINDA IMPORTANT.
*COUGH*

Read before the discussion started. Plenty of people have commented on things like "I just sent in my choices" or "I already know what I'm going to pick". I know for one I sent in my choices pretty early.

I must say that I have a lot of doubts on the benefits of "scumhunting" while no votes are present

What is this I don't even...

[Andrius]

AGM: If a player dies (which will probably wind up happening), will their flip contain which ability they had?

I figured this would be worth asking.

(See rule #13 - This is a full reveal game. Upon death, that player’s alignment and any abilities they had will be flipped. --AGM)