Mini 1057: Unsubsidized Mafia (Game Over!)

[singersigner]

Presenting...Newbie 980

[Chevre]

Vote Count 3

(2) DemonHybrid (Devon, jimfinn)
(1) Far_Cry (Thor665)
(1) redtail896 (DemonHybrid)
(1) Jack (Nexus)

(6) Not Voting (Far_Cry, Jack, nhammen, redtail896, singersigner, Andrigan)

With

11

players alive, it takes

6

votes to lynch!
The deadline is

October 8th

[Nexus]

@mod I voted Jack...

Fixed.

[Thor665]

@singersinger - I reasonably agree with your opinion of Nexus as regards his in game responses. Without scum meta I can't leap all over it like a teenager in a porn factory, but I can see the angle.

Why no vote yet?

[Nexus]

I don't have any scum meta. That is my only completed game on the site.

[Thor665]

You're being silly.
Vote for Far_Cry.

[Jack]

I may wait till page 7.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data"--Sherlock Holmes

Although I'm still trying to reach Lestrade level

[Thor665]

While you're waiting for Page 7 you could always throw out a vote - might be exciting and amusing for the rest of us and could help generate data for you - win/win in my book.

The reason conversation is currently circling around such exciting obviously valuable topics as whether or not someone was over defensive is because we have 6 players who haven't figured out that votes make the game go round.

Your methods will always be workmanlike to me

[DemonHybrid]

I may wait till page 7.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data"--Sherlock Holmes

Although I'm still trying to reach Lestrade level

I don't know if I like this kind of Jack.

Ein doesn't like nice and theoretical Jack...

[Thor665]

@DH - you missed my question in order to make a joke and post a pic. I am highly amused, now please answer the below question;

Did redtail do a 100% scummy action?

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, yes, I did miss it.

To me, the fact that he took such a wild argument (Far Cry being a "hypocrite" when he never even had the chance to do what he said he wanted you guys to do...I consider a chance within 10 or so posts) and copied it shows how willing he is to parrot. So yes, the fact that he called Far Cry a hypocrite is 100% scummy.

[Far_Cry]

I fully understand what hyporcrisy is, and it's reasonable to accuse me of it.

This is bullSmurf. Hyprocrisy suggests lies, as you have stated, and is true. I, however, have not said any lies as of yet, so don't tell me that you can use that against me.

So was my accusation reasonable or was it not reasonable?
When you mix anger with appeasement they sort of cancel each other out.

But it shouldn't warrant such a level of suspicion as to have me lynched on the spot (as Thor has stated, saying that if he could, he would lynch me now.)

Any vote not made with that belief behind it is a vote that isn't worth the bytes it is generated upon.
Also, I said 'if I had to', not 'if I could'. Bit of a difference is to be found therein.
I'm starting to be more of a 'if I could' mentality on this point though.

I'm also fascinated by how many people are now excited about the Nexus wagon because now he's being quiet. Wh-what? Wasn't I running him up on "over-defensiveness" or something? This is silly. The next person who mentions how it's suspicious that Nexus is being quiet should be obligated to actually also explain the case/questions that Nexus is avoiding by being quiet.

Your accusation was reasonable, you just can't say that you could lynch me on the spot for my hyprocrisy. Besides, I've tried to get some thoughts in, so I don't see it as hyporitical anymore.

Jack hasn't done anything scummy so far. Sure, it's weird, but that's Jack's playstyle and is completely null.

Agreed. I don't see how anyone can go on Jack's case when he hasn't said anything yet. It's his playstyle, and I don't see anything wrong with that.

nhammen- Who do you find more suspicious: Thor, Nexus, or me?

This early in the game, it is tough to find the difference between levels of scummy. Thor's attacks remind me of my play as scum in my most recent game. But he has also been the most active participant, and I can easily see pro-Town motivation for his play, so there is no way I am voting him. Nexus' comment on Thor's jumping but not on Demon's is odd, but not scummy by itself. I would have liked an answer to my comment though. He seems to have completely ignored it. You have been playing in a very newb way, but you have over a year on site. Something's not adding up. But I would say that you are the most scummy of the three, by a hair, or by epsilon, or whatever you prefer.

Ok, reasonable ideas about Thor, and I'd see how his actions could be interpreted as town or scummy. But tell me, why do you find my play "newbie?"

I don't believe this is scummy behavior for Nexus. He's apt to learning. He doesn't go about this the right way, but he takes it to heart and genuinely wants to learn how to be a better player.

What makes you think his current playstyle is more earnest town and less dodgy scum?

Because in his first game, I saw the same behavior as town. I don't think it's indicative of scum.

Oh really? That sounds likes you are pretty protective of him. Noob or not, good playstyle or not, there is no execuse for not defending yourself in the face of accusations. This makes me suspicious of you.

You're being silly.
Vote for Far_Cry.

Why, because I'm a hyprocite? You can't really call me that anymore, so please give us a REAL reason to vote for me.

[Thor665]

@Far_Cry - what you're using as your current hypocrite defense is that you were hypocritical but aren't now, and that doesn't wash.

That's like saying - I shot someone yesterday but you can't arrest me because I'm not shooting anyone today.

Current actions don't remove past actions. I haven't seen anything from you that looks like scumhunting or townish behavior, so I'm perfectly fine still voting you. I'm asking others to vote you because that's how the game is played. Clearly though, either I'm really wrong about this, or all those people not voting yet are better at the game and need to show me how to play. (I'm pretty full of myself though, so I think the fault lies with them, natch)

[Far_Cry]

@Far_Cry - what you're using as your current hypocrite defense is that you were hypocritical but aren't now, and that doesn't wash.

That's like saying - I shot someone yesterday but you can't arrest me because I'm not shooting anyone today.

Current actions don't remove past actions. I haven't seen anything from you that looks like scumhunting or townish behavior, so I'm perfectly fine still voting you. I'm asking others to vote you because that's how the game is played. Clearly though, either I'm really wrong about this, or all those people not voting yet are better at the game and need to show me how to play. (I'm pretty full of myself though, so I think the fault lies with them, natch)

Ok, I'm sorry that I didn't quite say that right. You asked me to contribute more because I had asked others to contribute (and had not been doing so myself.) I have done my best now to add something to the game. So do you continue to blast me for something I have already remedied?

And I can't scumhunt yet because it's difficult to get reads on people. That's why I ask for more talk.

[Nexus]

Ok ok. If that's Jack's playstyle, why didn't he come out and say something about it when he posted today? He has to have read the thread to make the assumption that he can't get anything out of it. Why are you all jumping to Jack's defence, when he's perfectly capable of defending himself?

[redtail896]

Sorry, yes, I did miss it.

To me, the fact that he took such a wild argument (Far Cry being a "hypocrite" when he never even had the chance to do what he said he wanted you guys to do...I consider a chance within 10 or so posts) and copied it shows how willing he is to parrot. So yes, the fact that he called Far Cry a hypocrite is 100% scummy.

Wait, so because I made a legitimate argument (granted, one that somebody else made first) I'm scummy? Far Cry even admitted to being a hypocrite. It's not a "wild" argument.

@Nexus: Personally I don't think we can do much about Jack until he actually decides to participate. And his playstyle choice is not in and of itself scummy. I may even try it out sometime.

I would like to hear more from jimfinn and Devon.

[Thor665]

Hey, redtail, if the argument is legitimate - how about you vote for Far_Cry?

[Devon]

I'm still alive. I've just been really busy lately, due to school and other things going on. My vote is still for DemonHybrid, however, after reading all these posts... Gimme me a bit more time to decide if I should change my vote.

[DemonHybrid]

Sorry, yes, I did miss it.

To me, the fact that he took such a wild argument (Far Cry being a "hypocrite" when he never even had the chance to do what he said he wanted you guys to do...I consider a chance within 10 or so posts) and copied it shows how willing he is to parrot. So yes, the fact that he called Far Cry a hypocrite is 100% scummy.

Wait, so because I made a legitimate argument (granted, one that somebody else made first) I'm scummy? Far Cry even admitted to being a hypocrite. It's not a "wild" argument.

@Nexus: Personally I don't think we can do much about Jack until he actually decides to participate. And his playstyle choice is not in and of itself scummy. I may even try it out sometime.

I would like to hear more from jimfinn and Devon.

I'm sorry, you missed the point plane again. Next flight is at 6:00 PM to Chicago if you're interested.

It wasn't your argument, it was the fact that it was a weird argument to make and it was a COMPLETE copy of Thor. And once again, Far Cry was never given a chance to do what he said wanted done. And you'd think maybe Far Cry is agreeing with you for the sake of the argument.

If Thor didn't call him a hypocrite, would you have?

[singersigner]

Checking in. Thoughts to come later today after classes. I have a couple...suspicions...

[redtail896]

I'm sorry, you missed the point plane again. Next flight is at 6:00 PM to Chicago if you're interested.

It wasn't your argument, it was the fact that it was a weird argument to make and it was a COMPLETE copy of Thor. And once again, Far Cry was never given a chance to do what he said wanted done. And you'd think maybe Far Cry is agreeing with you for the sake of the argument.

If Thor didn't call him a hypocrite, would you have?

First: Why was it a weird argument to make?

Second: I disagree that Far Cry never got a chance to participate in real discussion. Far Cry made plenty of posts before I addressed him. And if Far Cry agrees with the criticism, I don't see the problem.

Third: My answer to the last question is not so simple. I brought up hypocrisy because I objected to Far Cry's definition of the word. If the word "hypocrite" had not already been used, I probably wouldn't have used it. But I would certainly have mentioned and focused on the disconnect between promoting active discussion while discussing little.

Jack: it's page 5 and plenty has happened. I know that you want to see more, but we need your thoughts.

Hey, redtail, if the argument is legitimate - how about you vote for Far_Cry?

I don't want to right now.

[DemonHybrid]

First: Why was it a weird argument to make?

Second: I disagree that Far Cry never got a chance to participate in real discussion. Far Cry made plenty of posts before I addressed him. And if Far Cry agrees with the criticism, I don't see the problem.

Third: My answer to the last question is not so simple. I brought up hypocrisy because I objected to Far Cry's definition of the word. If the word "hypocrite" had not already been used, I probably wouldn't have used it. But I would certainly have mentioned and focused on the disconnect between promoting active discussion while discussing little.

First: I explained why called him a hypocrite is weird, and it's been brought up a lot before I even did either. I was just agreeing.

Second: "Far Cry made plenty of posts before I addressed him."

Correct, but he made ONE before Thor harped on him. He spent the rest of his time explaining why Thor was being anal about it.

Third: But you're calling him one nonetheless. And you wouldn't have said it if Thor didn't. It's an argument parroting.

[singersigner]

[quote=""Thor665"]Hey, redtail, if the argument is legitimate - how about you vote for Far_Cry?

I don't want to right now.[/quote]
Why?

I'm still alive. I've just been really busy lately, due to school and other things going on. My vote is still for DemonHybrid, however, after reading all these posts... Gimme me a bit more time to decide if I should change my vote.

Why was it on him in the first place? Revenge? And after reading everything you STILL don't have an opinion? I'm all for giving you more time to decide if you need to change your vote to someone you can be sure is scum as opposed to a hunch...but you basically said that even after all of this, you're still voting for DH for absolutely no reason at all.

Why, because I'm a hyprocite? You can't really call me that anymore, so please give us a REAL reason to vote for me.

I loled at this. Being a hypocrite gives someone every reason to vote for you unless you can give them a legitimate reason for why it's ok for YOU to do something, and not THEM. Which you have yet to do.

Oh really? That sounds likes you are pretty protective of him. Noob or not, good playstyle or not, there is no execuse for not defending yourself in the face of accusations. This makes me suspicious of you.

lol. You're cute. I'm saying that until he defends himself, simply soaking in the game for all it's worth doesn't determine alignment, and I'd rather people think of more legitimate reasons to vote for someone than say, "hey, he has yet to respond to anything, and we don't know why, so he MUST be scum." Come off it and get over yourself. Oh, and this just confirms that you didn't bother looking at his meta to figure out what I was talking about.

I may wait till page 7.

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data"--Sherlock Holmes

So...what you're saying is that you don't care about ANYTHING THAT'S HAPPENED except for pages 6 and 7.

These are some thoughts so far. I'll put the rest of my thoughts into a vote later tonight.

[Far_Cry]

I'm not sure yet what to think of DemonHybrid's argument against redtail. I agree with him that it's quite pointless for redtail to also attack me for my hyprocrisy, as its somewhat redundant. However, you seem to be making a big deal over it. Why does this one action make him so inherently scummy?

@singersigner: Not understanding what you said about "...you have to give the a legitimate reason for why it's ok for YOU to do something, and not them." And what exactly do you mean by this?

And your comments on Nexus: I never said he MUST be scum. You need to stop putting words in my mouth. I said in SUSPICIOUS of him, but have not quite said he is scum. That's why I refrained from putting out a vote. I'm not sure what to think of Nexus quite yet. And how can I figure out his meta when he's played only one game? Not only that, he played that game as town, and might just have a completely different style playing as non-townie. Therefore, I see no reason why I had to look at his meta.

[jimfinn]

Checking in to say I'm here, working on developing reads, but I'm just getting the feeling everyone else is as confused as I am so far, and I can't say I feel that confident in any of my reads so far. I'm slightly suspicious of redtail for his refusal to vote with his case, yet seeming relatively sure of it, but that's about it.