Open 253: Sea Container C9++ [GAME OVER]

[Alduskkel]

I'm not calling their votes stupid, I'm saying they are voting me fore stupidity, not scumminess. I did think it through, but I miss things sometimes which is why I wanted other oppinions on the matter.

Can you lay out your thought process for us? What led you to believe massclaim might be a positive thing for us?

Read please:

I'm interested in hearing this as well. Massclaim has it's advantages in that we can narrow down the setup as this is really semi-open. If we do that we can find out what roles we may be up against. We can also use it to weed out fakeclaims as there are only so many that would work in this game. I do see the disadvantages as well such as outing prs. That's why I wanted others opinions. As for my SA comment, consider it an fos minus the actuall words fos. It's no different.

Do you still believe this, or was this an explanation of your initial vote? If you believe this, is there anything that has happened in game so far which makes you see Jmj as scum?

Yes, I still believe that. I also don't like his initial defense that he replaced out of the game when he admits he followed it, making the fact that he replaced out entirely null. And the "Nice try, but try harder" in his first post seems like an attempt to discredit me completely hoping I'll drop the issue and if I don't, then no one will listen anyway. Then he twists my case completely to make it out like I'm metaing his play in the other game and attempts to make the replacement defense relevant again (Protip: It's not.). Then he actually listens and says he would have kept furcolow alive because of furc's play in that game (Protip: Furc named the "confirmed town" scum team at one point). Then he's back to twisting my case into "he's scum because he knew the scum team in another game". His ISO 7 just speaks for itself. He's very defensive there.

Oh, and in 9 posts, what has he done to contribute to the game? Defend himself? Sure. Call out Mongoose active lurking? Ok. What else? Who has he voted? No one. Who does he think is scum. I dunno.[/quote]

Oh, Ald responded. Oops.

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

Not really. I point out why Mothrax is wrong, and then I imply that any Town player would see this obvious flaw. Therefore, that means mothrax isn't town.

So getting a scum role affects a player's ability to spot flaws in setup discussion? Note taken.

I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

[Alduskkel]

EBWOP: Let's act like that previous post didn't happen.

I'm not calling their votes stupid, I'm saying they are voting me fore stupidity, not scumminess. I did think it through, but I miss things sometimes which is why I wanted other oppinions on the matter.

Can you lay out your thought process for us? What led you to believe massclaim might be a positive thing for us?

Read please:

I'm interested in hearing this as well. Massclaim has it's advantages in that we can narrow down the setup as this is really semi-open. If we do that we can find out what roles we may be up against. We can also use it to weed out fakeclaims as there are only so many that would work in this game. I do see the disadvantages as well such as outing prs. That's why I wanted others opinions. As for my SA comment, consider it an fos minus the actuall words fos. It's no different.

Oh, Ald responded. Oops.

I don't really think Mothrax thought massclaim through, at all. Scum would just claim vanilla and sit back and watch any/all Town PRs expose themselves. Then, systematic NKing. Mothrax, did you even stop to think about it?

This sounds like you are talking to someone who you think made a poor play as town rather than someone who you think is scum.

Not really. I point out why Mothrax is wrong, and then I imply that any Town player would see this obvious flaw. Therefore, that means mothrax isn't town.

So getting a scum role affects a player's ability to spot flaws in setup discussion? Note taken.

I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

[mothrax]

And I saw the pro-town sides, I saw a few anti town, but I wanted the cons weighed out, so I asked. So if a scum player has difficulty seeing the pro-town aspects of things, your argument is void since I saw those and it was the anti I was having trouble seeing.

[Nexus]

I'm back early, but not a lot's happened.

@Katsuki elaborate on post #75 plz. Posts like this make me think you're scummy, because they contribute nothing but meaningless chat.

Also, andrew has contributed next to nothing, besides "I'm new to C9++."

Can I hear your scum reads, andrew?

[Alduskkel]

And I saw the pro-town sides, I saw a few anti town, but I wanted the cons weighed out, so I asked. So if a scum player has difficulty seeing the pro-town aspects of things, your argument is void since I saw those and it was the anti I was having trouble seeing.

It's pro-town to spot the anti-town things in a mass claim.

[Alduskkel]

Wait, never mind, scum will see the pro-scum things to a mass claim which is equivalent to seeing the anti-town things.

Unvote

.

[Katsuki]

@Katsuki elaborate on post #75 plz. Posts like this make me think you're scummy, because they contribute nothing but meaningless chat.

Get used to it. Its how I play. It is, however, not meaningless in the slightest.

ALSO, MOTH #102 IS TERRIBLE.

[Nexus]

So, you're not going to elaborate on anything at all?

Helpful.

[Katsuki]

Depends.

More often than not, no.

[andrew94]

err nexus, you have contributed next to nothing except for 'im v/la'

[andrew94]

my thoughts : i think we should stop going on about the 'meta harry potter game' and instead focus on the REACTIONS of the people relating to that (e.g. over defensive, over aggressive etc.)

then even thought morthax saying massclaim is bad, maybe hes just new like me. we should now look at the reactions of people (especially those people pretending to be cheerful in explaining the pros on cons, those ppl are likely scum) after it.

yea...

[Sleepless Assassin]

Ok SA, here goes. You start off accusing me of killing furc because of harry potter mafia. You say I did it because he named the scum team day 1. Once I replaced out I had no stake in that game. He got lucky in that game when he named the scum team. He also got unlucky when town believed reaper based on flavor alone. Even as confirmed town, he couldn't convince town. I didn't even know he had named the scum team since he did it day one when I wasn't around. Honestly, I think you killed furc just to set up this "case" on me. You also keep saying you aren't metaing my play. Referring to any past game of mine is using meta. As for my posts this game, I have had no choice but be on the defensive because you keep attacking me.

Day 1? It was definitely later than that. Which nullifies the original point I raised against you. The rest still stands though. Yes, you can defend yourself. No, that doesn't mean you can't play the game. Responding to my posts isn't some magician act that makes the other posts disappear. You can still see them and you can still scumhunt based on them. So far, you don't seem to have any interest in doing so.

To be more specific: jmj has no reason to continue arguing AGAINST SA's attack, as it has been deemed more or less vague and/or weak by enough active players. The fact that he continues the argument suggests either: A. Tunneling between two players or B. Scum gambit.

It would be incredibly anti-town if he ignored my case regardless of what anyone else thinks. And I'm not tunneling. I think we will find the scum somewhere in {jmj, Ald, Mongoose, andrew, nexus}. I'm just looking at jmj the most because he is my top suspect at the moment and currently my top choice for a lynch although that could change.

I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

Very interesting. Not sure how you can think this, but ok I guess.

@Katsuki elaborate on post #75 plz. Posts like this make me think you're scummy, because they contribute nothing but meaningless chat.

Why would you want someone to elaborate on "meaningless chat"?

my thoughts : i think we should stop going on about the 'meta harry potter game' and instead focus on the REACTIONS of the people relating to that (e.g. over defensive, over aggressive etc.)

Care to give us your take?

And isn't jmj using the fact that he is defending himself as an excuse not to scumhunt a scummy reaction?

then even thought morthax saying massclaim is bad, maybe hes just new like me. we should now look at the reactions of people (especially those people pretending to be cheerful in explaining the pros on cons, those ppl are likely scum) after it.

Judging my join dates, he's newer than you are.

[Sleepless Assassin]

Last line should say "judging by join dates" not "my".

[andrew94]

well i played newbie for long time.

can someone explain this :I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

[Mafuyu]

well i played newbie for long time.

can someone explain this :I would think a scum player would be less likely to see the pro-town side of things, yes.

Oh, you'd be surprised.
There are cases where town does not see the pro-town side, for any number of reasons.
There are cases where scum DOES see the pro-town side, significantly because it is their job to read the game to a degree sufficient enough to A. Dispel suspicion and B. Redirect suspicion to town. To not know the town rationale would be to be forced in to playing the ignorant town role, which one can only get away with for so long. To manipulate, you have to know what cards are on the table.

That is to say, 'X is less likely to see pro-town result/interpretation' is null in that diligent people are trying to read however they can, and non-diligent people are scattered in to a myriad number of reasons why they aren't.

[mongoose]

I will be v/la starting thursday, and ending on the following sunday for Dasara holidays (from the 7th til the 16th). i may be able to post when I am at my cousin's houses, but during some periods I may not have internet access.

[quote="andrew94"]err nexus, you have contributed next to nothing except for 'im v/la'[/quote
QFT. Do something useful please. Saying one post was meaningless isn't helpful. The fact that someone posted a "meaningless" post doesn't make them town or scum.

I agree with mafuyu in the fact that different people see different sides when having different roles. The assumption we make is that you are more likely to see the side you are allied on, however this may not be true. In fact< i wouldn't hesitate to say it is uncommon for a person not to be able to see both sides, so I think most of this discussion is rather pointless.

Also, mothrax confused the hell out of me with his post. The fact that you saw both sides could go either way. If you are scum and you see many pro and anti town things, you could try to use that to your advantage by saying it can be pro town too.

[Nexus]

Surely posting a meaningless post is anti-town? You're just posting for the sake of posting, to avoid a prod/mod kill, and you're coasting through. Thats my opinion anyway.

Re Mothrax: Asking for a massclaim is a silly idea, BUT I don't believe that Mothrax would be stupid enough to ask that if he was scum. Granted, I've only played with him once before, BUT he was town, so eh. Mass claiming on Day 1 in any set up, is, in my opinion, a pointless exercise which only distracts the town. However, his later explanation does explain his reasoning quite well, so I don't think I want to vote for him.

[Katsuki]

*points to sig*

andrew please learn how to type english kthx.

[a2rudeboy]

/prod pickup

Nothing much to go on still.

@Nexus- Who is currently your top candidate and why?

@Mongoose- Do you have any idea how often you should be able to post? With a v/la that long, would it maybe be better to seek replacement?

[mongoose]

unvote, vote a2rudeboy

2 prods? really? If that isn't lurking I don't know what is.

I should be able to post on the days which I am at my cousin's house, but then I won't be able to be online most of the day like I am now, only in the mornings and nights (one of the two most probably) when we aren't sightseeing and stuff. And for a couple days I will have no access what so ever though I'm not sure which days those are exactly. I just sit in the car and play my DS, I don't plan this stuff XD

[sirdanilot]

Votecount:
Katsuki (2): Nexus, mothrax
yellowbounder (1): andrew94
jmj3000 (1): Sleepless Assassin
mothrax (1): Katsuki
Sleepless Assassin (1): Mafuyu
a2rudeboy(1): mongoose

Not Voting (4): yellowbounder, jmj3000, a2rudeboy, Alduskkel

With 11 people, it's 6 votes to lynch.

I hope you guys did not lose track of the deadline? Deadline is 7th of October at 19:00 GMT+1

I will put an effort to replace those who gave an indefinite time for V/LA. If you give me a set time, I will usually be willing to wait, but I cannot do anything with indefinate V/LAs.

[sirdanilot]

jmj3000 has been prodded.

Searching replacement for yellowbounder.

[sirdanilot]

BlakAdder replaces yellowbounder.

[BlakAdder]

Just got my PM. Starting my read now.

[BlakAdder]

Well I don't like this one bit. Deadline is two days away and nobody's offering much to go on. To be honest, I think much of the wagons are overblown.
Right now, at least, I'm not liking SA very much. I didn't like his case on jmj to begin with and it looks like he's reaching more and more. Right now, I'm probably going to vote for either him or one of the lurkers.
On that note, SA, you mentioned that you don't think WIFOM is a bad thing. Your reasoning must have gone over my head. Could you please explain how WIFOM can be pro-town in any way?