Mini 1084: The New Jersey Shore (Game Over)

[themanhimself]

Hmm, that's actually a good question hanzo, thought provoking at least. I would say that both you and carrot cake outlined your arguments on observations which are subjective to opinion and that my opinion was more represented by what carrot cake said. Essentially they're both reaches, but carrot is reaching in a direction that I see as more likely and more logical. Both of those posts aside though, I would say your role claim is the scummiest thing in the game so far.

[Jase]

chkflip: Stop lurking and take some stances on what's happening. Do it now!
Just checking in before I have to leave. More tonight.

[themanhimself]

Agreed. Lurk=scumtell

[Hanzo_5]

the man himself, fair enough, while im not happy with ur view, it has reason behind it. I don't know how logic based on the idea that my first post, a random vote, is trying to look town which means im trying to be invisible is less reachy than, my defense, wich in a nutshell is: trying to be town is not trying to be invisible. Which raises my next question, keeping in mind the nature of my posting do you honostly believe I am trying to be invisible?

I see your point on the claim, any claim is scummy.

[themanhimself]

I don't believe you're trying to remain invisible but I don't find that, in your case, it clears you. I also said they were equally reachy and based on opinions and I happen to agree more with the opinions used to form carrot's argument.

[Guthrie]

Guthrie, can you quote what i said that felt evasive to you? I feel as if you are avoiding reasoning for your opinions.

I am not. It's not an opinion that you can back up with a quote lol. Is just the general feeling i got from your posting.

Everyone can do what you are trying to do with me. look : "quote please where it looks like i am avoiding reasoning for my opinions", Its plain stupid, and it only strengtens my suspicious on you.

[Guderian]

internet stranger, all you have done so far in this game is submit one sentence posts without much of anything.

would you mind posting what you think of the current wagon on hanzo and guthrie, in addition to other thoughts you may have.

[Hanzo_5]

The man himself, okay that makes more sense to me, except, how can you agree with her opinion of me being invisible if you say I'm not? am I missing something?

Guthrie, to be more direct which explanation do you feel is evasive? or are u doing more of this:

unvote
Vote Hanzo

I had a strange feeling from your first voting post. It looks like you tought too much about it.
And after Carrot's post, i felt it was good to vote you. Anyway, we need a wagon to heat things up, do we not?

In other words both you and carrot think im trying to go under the radar/ be invisible/ go unnoticed/ be evasive. I have been anything but evasive. I don't like that you and carrotcake have similar opinions, opinions that don't add up. votes based on opinions have no weight, with no weight to what you do you don't have to take responsibility for a myslynch. Carrotcake is not posting I think an extra vote on you will do more for the town. as far as encouraging to give weight to what you say goes.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Guthrie

[themanhimself]

@Hanzo, I agreed that you appeared to be not trying make a splash when she initially posted that and at that point it was true. Now that you a trying to avoid being lynched, of course you would counter everything she said and begin posting more. Besides the fact that so many posts have personally called you out that you have no choice but to respond or be lynched.

[Hanzo_5]

The man himself, now THAT makes a helluvalota sense! It is my hope that you will realize what an active poster I am and that its not some epic game long counter . That is if i survive day and night 1.

[Rain]

@xsrk
Post #63 was horribly scummy.

First of all, there's a clear contradiction between:

Lurking is a clear scumtell, in my opinion

and

about half of the "leadership" players are scum

Second, you just listed the four people who received heat. Actually, looking back, it's more like "the four people who have any votes at all". That's just saying you're trying to go with the flow.

Last, you suggest that the four most prolific posters might be scum, but should not be lynched because that would create a... leaderless town. That's a weak excuse (if not retarded), and basically means you're fence sitting on the four people who, again, have any votes at all.

@Guthrie
The reasons why I voted for you is because of the sentence you so conveniently bolded,

[Guthrie] votes for Hanzo for the sake of voting, with no clear conviction that Hanzo's scum

and the sentence right after,

Also, while it is true a wagon helps the town by providing heat, I find it unsettling that you'd ask for one. It feels like a scum asking for public support.

The second quote is in reference of

Anyway, we need a wagon to heat things up,

do we not?

italicized to add emphasis.

Also, in your exchange with Hanzo, saying that it was just an opinion that can not be backed with a quote seems like an awfully convenient way for scum to express suspicions.

[sarcasm]In any case, I'm sure you have other reasons to vote for Hanzo. It's not as if you're doing exactly what you criticized me of doing.[/sarcasm]

[Hanzo_5]

The man himself and guthrie, looking forward to your answers.

The man himself, I'm glad your making a huge deal out of my vanilla townie claim. The reason being is that when a real case is presented on an actual mafia player, I can count on u to not be swayed by it. Defending carrotcakes arguments makes you seem more scummy to me, i will elaborate on this later. pleas do hold me to that elaboration.

Rain, In my opinion ignoring a scum-tell, especially after it has been presented is a scum-tell. What are your thoughts on this idea? Also, do you think xsrk is lurking?

[themanhimself]

Now hanzo, that seems to me like you're trying to back down from your role claim now which is another scum-tell. I assure you that I don't believe you to be mafia because you're a relatively new player (according to his info Guderian is actually your junior), I believe that the mistakes you're making are textbook for a new player who drew scum.

When people thought (incorrectly) that I was rolefishing, they jumped on me about it because revealing roles first day is only to the advantage of the scum, even if the role revealed is just a powerless townie it's the process of elimination. So if you are town then you just hurt everyone except. If you're not, then you decided to grab a roleclaim before everyone else did and you picked the only town role that you know for a fact to exist. That reeks of scum. If someone else role-claimed vanilla townie without provocation on day 1, I would be incredibly skeptical of them as well, the fact that you're a fairly new player adds very little (though admittedly some) to the suspicion.

For the record, you have yourself said that my last few posts (all of which pointed to you as scum) were based on fairly sound logic AND when you roleclaimed you prefaced it with how scummy it was. Clearly you have some idea of the impression we're getting from you as you've acknowledged it several times, yet for some reason you continue to act in a scummy manner.

I'm ready for your elaboration whenever you are Hanzo though I find it odd that you waited.

[Hanzo_5]

Themanhimself, I'm not gonna back out of the claim and i don't have any intention too, that would be extremely scummy and confuse the town as well. I'd like to make it clear that the only post I find to have a complete logical thought process is this:

@Hanzo, I agreed that you appeared to be not trying make a splash when she initially posted that and at that point it was true. Now that you a trying to avoid being lynched, of course you would counter everything she said and begin posting more. Besides the fact that so many posts have personally called you out that you have no choice but to respond or be lynched.

I see my mistake in claiming a particular town, and will refrain from doing so in later games, as it does add to the process of elimination. But since I did it here to repeat myself I won't by backing away from it. I am a Vanilla Townie. I see that u already answered my question too, silly me . Elaboration coming soon, real life beckons.

[Guderian]

I see my mistake in claiming a particular town, and will refrain from doing so in later games, as it does add to the process of elimination. But since I did it here to repeat myself I won't by backing away from it.

This strikes me as rather interesting scummy. Why have you made a mistake in claiming a town? Are you implying that you would rather have claimed something else? Saying this implies you are mafia fake claiming a role. If you're a townie you're a townie, no need to worry about offending people by claiming it if you have to.

I don't like this.

[Hanzo_5]

Guderian, my reasons for viewing it as a mistake are in that quote, post something i actually have to answer next time.

[Llamarble]

Xsrk manages to be pretty scummy despite a mere 2 posts.
First he chooses not to participate in RVS.
That doesn't help the town get toward meaningful content and reduces opportunities for other players to read him.
Next he decries lurking as scummy despite his own post count of 2 and outright refusal to participate in RVS.
He also gives a summary of action without any actual scumhunting, merely saying he'll be keeping his eye on bandwagons if they almost or do lynch someone (!).
He even mentions he is suspicious of the players everyone else is suspicious of, which just looks like opportunistic scum preparing to help push the easiest lynch.
That said, he is apparently a very new player, which excuses some of these such as a misunderstanding of the value of RVS voting.
And while lurking and saying lurking is scummy is a double standard, I don't think that has a significant bearing on whether he's scum.
His keeping an eye on list looks very opportunistic regardless of his experience level though.
@Xsrk: please read, decide who you think is scummy, and vote them with an explanation.

[Guthrie]

@Hanzo : I don't see nothing wrong at all with my posts. You are just making up stuff to derail your wagon.

[Internet Stranger]

Ha! My opinion? Well, I will make it known now that you shouldnt expect long winded essays or some copy/paste postmonster. I want to see constant bandwagons and lynchings. I want to see votes thrown around like used condoms. I want the scum to be pressured hard and fast in order for them to make mistakes.

People who dont post cant be read, so they might as well be scum.

The first day is a crapshoot anyways. Whatever reasons are really just drawing at straws. CC made a decent point and dissipated into the ether and Hanzo is panicking, throwing OMGUS votes and trying to filibuster his way to freedom. I dont see a reason to change my vote despite absolutely loving his aggressive style.

I say we have plenty of cannon fodder to go through, lets string him up and see what happens.

[Scott Brosius]

Deadline is Dec 6 1pm EST
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Vote Count 3

Carrotcake (0)-
Chaotic Neutrality (0)-
chkflip (0)-
Guderian (0)-
Guthrie (3)- Chaotic Neutrality, Rain, Hanzo_5
Hanzo_5 (5)-themanhimself, Carrotcake, Guthrie, Internet Stranger, chkflip
Internet Stranger (0)-
Jase (0)-
Llamarble (0)-
Rain (0)-
themanhimself (3)- Llamarble, Jase, Guderian
xsrk (0)-

Not Voting (1)- xsrk

[themanhimself]

The Case Against Hanzo

Don't pay to much attention to carrotcake's vote on me she's silly and doesn't have the slightest clue of the super dee duper smartyness of my voting campaign.

1. Took a vote against him a little too seriously in the RVS. Scum would react this way because of their guilty conscience.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: xsrk

for

No vote yet.

2. Voted against xsrk for the no vote which seems like someone trying a little too hard to be town.

I didn't even notice... I might have to st

eal

this whenever I get a chance to play mafia.

3. He's going out of his way here to say that he isn't mafia. This seems scummy for the same reason as number one, overcompensating because he knows he's guilty.

I have to be super aggressive (as per usual) for anyone to think i'm town

4. This is not true on any level and shows once again his overcompensation. Thinking that he has to prove himself town implies that he's not.

In my mind you are scum number one.......

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Carrotcake

5. The first thing any liar does is make counter-accusations and utilize misdirection which is pretty much what this entire post was about. If he's lying, then he's not town, if he's not town then he's scum.

At least

give a reason as to why this is an OMGUS vote, instead of leaving me in the dark and putting no fact backed thoughts into peoples mind.

6. The reasons that this vote was OMGUS were plainly clear and I believe this quote falls under the counter-accusation, misdirection heading again. More scumminess.

Everyone, I'm getting the vibe from you all that my innocents is only proven upon dying and flipping townie. If you are all in agreement with this Lynch me now. If the flaws i pointed out in ccs argument are that weak, and my case against carrotcake is that OMGUS. Lynch my ass, what do u have to lose. If carrotcake is right and im mafia ur good. If carrot cake is wrong and i'm town... What I think is the strongest case i have ever presented is merelt "meh" to all of you and who needs a townie like that anyway?

7. Just asking people to go ahead and lynch you and see what happens is a plan B gambit that reeks of the desperation of scum knowing he's about to get lynched. Even if he were town, this post is just plain unhelpful to anyone.

I'm ashamed at myself for posting like a big ass baby, crying "lynch me then". I'm unimpressed by my first defense for its admitted "hard to read" impression.

8. After we called him out on these exact points he immediately went back on them. If he were innocent then his points should have been valid and true to begin with and there's no reason to try and take them back. When I was accused of rolefishing I never took anything back, I merely clarified until people understood what I was trying to do. Cops always know they're on the right trail when their suspect begins taking things back.

3)themanhimself, reasons:
For semi role fishing, for being in a agreement with carrotcake on a psychic level,

9. More counter-accusations and misdirection. It was clear when I referred to the psychic thing that I was talking about my first random vote coincidentally landing on him. This seems like someone trying to stir up the pot in a different direction to take the heat off of themselves.

I am tempted to point the FOS at all of you that thought carrotcakes logic was sound

10. More OMGUS, this time directed at almost half of the town. How could 5 out of 12 people all be anti-town? That's very nearly a majority (and far more scum than we could realistically expect in this game) and a majority essentially *is* the town. This again falls under counter-accusations/misdirection.

Also you are right I'm vanilla townie, I'm claiming it. I'm sure someone will find that scummy

11. I'm sure the vast majority of us find that to be scummy. Vanilla townie is the weakest claim and the most suspicious. Roleclaiming on day one is not advisable and only helps the mob. The fact that he acknowledges this seems scummy and then does it anyway clearly implies that he's scummy.

I see your point on the claim, any claim is scummy.

12. Agreed. See point 11. If he knows this is scummy, then what possible reason could he have had for it? No one prompted him for a role claim at all.

It is my hope that you will realize what an active poster I am and that its not some epic game long counter

13. Doesn't any counter essentially have to be game long?

That is if i survive day and night 1.

14. This seems like he's trying too hard to be town by emphasizing how he's at risk of being killed at night 1 just like anyone else because he knows that mafia are in little danger of being killed at night 1, besides the possible inclusion of a vig which I won't speculate on for a variety of reasons.

when a real case is presented on an actual mafia player, I can count on u to not be swayed by it

15. A clearly baseless counter-accusation design to take the spotlight off of him.

i will elaborate on this later. pleas do hold me to that elaboration.

16. Still waiting on this elaboration, seems as though he's trying to get our minds off of him without actually having anything to do it with.

I see my mistake in claiming a particular town

17. This is a clear implication that he could have claimed something else if he wanted, a standard scum trait.


I think is more enough for a day 1 lynch and we're at -2.

[chkflip]

chkflip: Stop lurking and take some stances on what's happening. Do it now!
Just checking in before I have to leave. More tonight.

- I was busy with college work, sorry. Not trying to lurk. Hanzo's defense was a null tell for me, so until more develops from that, my vote stays.
- None of the other players have really stood out; something more developed when I get some more solid reads.

[Hanzo_5]

Themanhimself, those quotes are out of context shame on you.

[Hanzo_5]

Guthrie, you didn't answer my question, can you just say that your not going to answer it so i can make it even more direct.

[themanhimself]

Guthrie, you didn't answer my question, can you just say that your not going to answer it so i can make it even more direct.

18. Counter-accusations and misdirection rather than tackling the actual point. Maybe he won't explain himself because he can't because he's scum.