Consulmaker II: the Pyrrhic War - Game over.

[Nathanael]

if there is a townie in {Jack, ribwich} who fakeclaimed, UNCLAIM NOW!
you are doing us no favor at all keeping this up.

[Primate]

I just think it's such a stupid scum play that it has to be town poorly planned town gambit.

Why would a scum out himself to kill a mod-confirmed town consulmaker who would just be replaced the next day? Both these players have played before and I kind of assume they didn't take retard pills before joining up here. The only thing I see that makes even slight sense is ribwitch as scum being terrified of jack and trying to knock out a strong consulmaker, but I don't really believe that's whats happening.

[Jack]

I agree, ribwhich should explain his point and unclaim. This derail has gone on long enough.

[Jack]

I don't think ribwhich is scum, his play makes no sense as scum.

fos:lowell

Scummy "rhetorical" questions

[chamber]

unvote

vote: chamber

Pretty good feeling one of our Consuls is scum, based on reactions to the counterclaim, and Primate may be as well. If one of Jack/ribwich are scum, Primate for first of all bringing up the possibility both could be town.

Primate suggesting they are both town is very inline with his usual play I think.

If 1 of you is lying town you need to come clean. If no one does the only think I can assume is that one of them, as scum, read the setup wrong?

[SensFan]

Primate thinking its a gambit is indeed par for the course. Unless I'm misremembering, he fakeclaimed CopGuilty D1 of the first Mini Normal I modded, just for reactions.

[Primate]

In my defense that actually worked out ok and there was only post between me saying it and explicitly saying I was lying. That said, it was still a bad play in the MS environment, and I wouldn't do it again.

[SensFan]

I'm not arguing whether it was good or bad play. I'm saying you have more reason than most to give credence to the thought that this might be a really dumb gambit, rather than really bad scumplay.

[scotmany12]

I will not allow an execution of either claimed Consulmaker to go through today.

It's a good thing you aren't a dictator.

I thought of the possibility that both of them are town. I find it highly unlikely. Town doesn't gain anything by fakeclaiming consulmaker.

They both have the power of a Day-ending execution and an absolute power to veto any such execution.

I'm not willing to take a 50-50 shot today, and risk killing a confirmable PR, when we can ensure we get a 100% lynch of the liar on D3. Yes, I have a way to figure out which of them is lying by D3. No, I don't think its best to divulge it until just before we execute someone today.

Ahh okay. I must have read over that part of the rules.

I still think one of them is scum. And I'm leaning towards Jack.

[SensFan]

Actually, I think I'd rather just explain my thoughts so others can see if I missed something.

Tonight, if Jack is Consulmaker, he makes ribwhich and someone he thinks is Town the Consuls. If ribwhich is Consulmaker, he targets Jack and someone he thinks is Town. D3, we execute whoever of Jack/ribwhich turns up as Consul tomorrow.

[chamber]

Actually, I think I'd rather just explain my thoughts so others can see if I missed something.

Tonight, if Jack is Consulmaker, he makes ribwhich and someone he thinks is Town the Consuls. If ribwhich is Consulmaker, he targets Jack and someone he thinks is Town. D3, we execute whoever of Jack/ribwhich turns up as Consul tomorrow.

.... doesn't that give full power of the day2 lynch to scum?

[SensFan]

Best-case scenario, the other Consul is Town and we force the Scum to lynch on our terms, or else No Lynch. Even if the other Consul is Scum, he needs to put on an act of not wanting to cede to Jack/rib's demands. And either way, we get a guaranteed Scumlynch D3. I don't know about you, but I'll take a D2 NL to get a D3 Scumlynch.

[Primate]

Yeah, it's the kind of plan I had in mind if it's still an issue after a few days, except I was considering a similar plan, but with two people who are generally agreed to be pro-town who aren't consulmakers. So there's one guy that rib needs to target and Jack cannot target, and vise versa. Whichever ones lying will insist he did target it, but for all intents and purposes he'd be caught in a lie.

Which plan you go for mostly depends on where the you think the scum are, imho.

That said, sens, I think you're missing that if the scum nightkill the other consulmaker N1, then we could potentially have a d2 with scum dictator, and tribunes can only stop one lynch, so he could essentially lynch whoever he wants. So assuming worst, it's D2 townlynch for D3 scumlynch.

[SensFan]

So absolute worst-case scenario, we let a Scum publicly lynch whoever he wants D2, in exchange for lynching him D3. Trying to lynch correctly between the two claimed Consulmakers today gives us 50-50 odds.
Worst-case scenario if we wait gives us the same odds as we have trying to decide today.

[Porochaz]

Hi,

Will decide who Im going to pick later

I can guarantee it won't be Lowell.

[Jack]

Hi,

Will decide who Im going to pick later

I can guarantee it won't be Lowell.

Your only comment?

[Lowell]

A few things:

1) Not sure why I'm supposed to care about lynching/executing a consulmaker. If we guess wrong between jack/whoever the other guy was, we'll just get another one, right? One at least as useful as jack/the other guy, probably? Might be why whoever-the-real-one-is figured there was no harm in claiming.
2) love poro. 89 is classic, but seriously just pick someone to be tribune
3) pick me
4) sens is being an idiot. Fortunately it won't really be up to him.

[SensFan]

Just throwing this out there, but we have a limited supply of Roman Citizens, presumably. We can't afford to let the Scum know who the Consulmaker is, if and when the current one dies.

And Lowell, it is up to me. I say neither of ribwhich/Jack are getting executed today, and so neither of them are getting executed today.

[Lowell]

I am the voice of the people. Ignore me at your own risk.

[SensFan]

Why does the voice of the people want to take a 50-50 shot today when we can have a 100% shot D3, without the risk of lynching our confirmable PR?

[xRECKONERx]

Oh so here's the thread.
Will catch up tonight/tomorrow after FOOSBALLS are off.

[chesskid3]

I think they are both probably town, and more that we try to figure out which one of the two is actually the consulmaker we help the scum. A gambit was run for cover, let's use it whilst we still have some ambiguity there.

Even aside from that, I don't see the benefit of us killing one of the two yet, it's going to become obvious which one of the two is consulmaker over the next few days, why even take the small chance that we hit the wrong one? The only

This guy is probably scum

Nathaneal,why not vote yourself for tribune? What was so amazing about Lowell's post that he deserves your tribune vote?

[SensFan]

chesskid, you're quickly rising the ranks of my Execution List. At first, its not a big deal to vote yourself for Tribune. But at some point, you have to actually start using your head and stop just telling everyone to self-vote, or we're going to end up with no Tribunes.

[chesskid3]

IF you are voting for SOMEONE ELSE, it should be for a REASON.

I asked him WHY LOWELL's post was so GREAT that is deserved this TRIBUNE VOTE.

@whichever of Rib/Jack is actually the consulmaker: can you not make idiots consuls please?

[Primate]

Chesskid, are you stupid are something? The reason that people (other than yourself) aren't voting for themselves as tribune is, whilst it is technically the right play, it just doesn't work in a game like because if everyone votes for themselves, we are never going to achieve consensus and the game will die on d1 due to lurkership. Voting for someone who isn't yourself on D1 is a given due to the way the game will work, and this should be considered an obvious fact. By anyone who thinks about it.