Newbie 1038: Welcome to the Jungle! (Game Over!)

[BrentM]

Being sick, bored, manipulation, Blaming language barrier. I could be wrong but don't these sound like scum excuses?

Pine, if you are not scum and now you've decided to go against your "hunch" on me, do you have a read on anything else as to who may be scum? I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.

[Pinewolf]

Any excuse can sound like a scum excuse if you convince yourself of it.

Don't misunderstand me. My hunch still stays. Though it is nothing more than a hunch. I just figured the arguments against you could also be interpreted as newbie opposed to scummy.
Well, i said i'm not really sure of who to be scummy in the last line of my giant post.
But, i think you may scum still, same for lunatic though that can be interpreted simply by him having some sort of complex or sth.

hmmm, now that i think of it. His actions could be interpreted as picking a wagon and jumping on it trying to make it pile more votes. Which is scummy. Though he did choose a very weird method, so that makes me unsure. :S

As for others, my opinion hasn't really changed from post #72.

[LlamaFluff]

Ok these last few pages make Brent definantly town. He is either unintentionally hitting all of my newbie-town tells as scum, or much more likely is newbie-town.

Anyways, the reasons I think Mirror is scum

Sorry if I'm not really contributing anything at this point. D: These mafia games are hard to follow! Hopefully I'll get the gist of it before D2.

This is a classic slight tell actually, as it assumes that he will be alive on D2. The players with the best chance of being alive are scum, as they are not going to get nightkilled.

Im confused by this. You are voting for Pine, comment on this by him, say he is not really scummy for it, but you subes(e)quently seem to attack Lunatic but leave your vote on someone you only have a very slightly scummy if even that. Why is lunatic scummy as well? You just seem to attack him for being a jerk, again not a tell of anything but personality.

I was afraid that voting for someone who did something mean without having any hard evidence would quickly form a "wagon" (I think I used that properly ) and get him lynched prematurely before anything could be further evaluated. To an extent I was right, He is at L-3 and if I voted for him he would be put at L-2, which would allow the mafia (assuming they haven't already voted on him) to quickly vote for him and get him lynched really early.

While the "no L-2 fear" had already been explained, this also is sidestepping the question of why Lunatic was scummy for being a jerk.

Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.

But you called him scummy when you initally brought it up. What changed between then and now?

I will get to answering pine later. This is finals work for me and I have a geotech one tomorrow that I should be able to hold a B in with some work.

[tanstalas]

You did say your English can be weird at times in your OP Pinewolf, however, I am not going to use that to say you are innocent (anyone here play with Andrew94 will know what I am talking about). My votes stays on you until you convince me you are not scum or someone else slips up.

On a sidenote - this game is all about analyzing what people post, as you probably know. For you since English is not your primary language I can see this being somewhat of an challenge with what grammar to use, however this just means you need to be extra meticulous with your posts.

I have seen people who are scum in a game use the excuse of English is not their primary language to their advantage, whether intentional or not... - see above point in parenthesis

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14984 is the game I was in with Andrew94 you can see what I mean

[Pinewolf]

Well that certainly is so. As i said in my previous post, every excuse can be either a scummy one or a town one. It's up to people to interpret them the way they do.

As far as having to be extra meticulous in my posts. I mentioned in post #97, the third answer that exactly because my english can be a bit bad at times I tend to read posts more thoroughly and more than once. Same goes with formulating my posts. I tend to change words and the structure of sentences a couple of times each time I'm writing.

I don't really feel like reading through that topic to find the posts in which he uses the excuse, but i can tommorow perhaps. Unless you point me to them.

[BrentM]

You did say your English can be weird at times in your OP Pinewolf, however, I am not going to use that to say you are innocent (anyone here play with Andrew94 will know what I am talking about). My votes stays on you until you convince me you are not scum or someone else slips up.

On a sidenote - this game is all about analyzing what people post, as you probably know. For you since English is not your primary language I can see this being somewhat of an challenge with what grammar to use, however this just means you need to be extra meticulous with your posts.

I have seen people who are scum in a game use the excuse of English is not their primary language to their advantage, whether intentional or not... - see above point in parenthesis

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14984 is the game I was in with Andrew94 you can see what I mean

After reading that game thread, I realized how much of a newbie I am.

@Llama, why do you think DP is town?

[KingTwelveSixteen]

FREAKING STUPID INTERNET! Now I gotta make my huge post all over again!

[MirrorIrorriM]

Anyways, the reasons I think Mirror is scum

Sorry if I'm not really contributing anything at this point. D: These mafia games are hard to follow! Hopefully I'll get the gist of it before D2.

This is a classic slight tell actually, as it assumes that he will be alive on D2. The players with the best chance of being alive are scum, as they are not going to get nightkilled.

OK I really had no idea that scum have a higher chance of surviving. You must remember that I am totally new to this, I have only read till page 4 in one other, non completed, mafia thread (game 1033 to be exact) and gotten some knowledge from that; otherwise I would be totally lost. Although I really can't denounce that accusation with some fact, my only defense on that one is that I am new.

Im confused by this. You are voting for Pine, comment on this by him, say he is not really scummy for it, but you subes(e)quently seem to attack Lunatic but leave your vote on someone you only have a very slightly scummy if even that. Why is lunatic scummy as well? You just seem to attack him for being a jerk, again not a tell of anything but personality.

I was afraid that voting for someone who did something mean without having any hard evidence would quickly form a "wagon" (I think I used that properly ) and get him lynched prematurely before anything could be further evaluated. To an extent I was right, He is at L-3 and if I voted for him he would be put at L-2, which would allow the mafia (assuming they haven't already voted on him) to quickly vote for him and get him lynched really early.

While the "no L-2 fear" had already been explained, this also is sidestepping the question of why Lunatic was scummy for being a jerk.

Sorry, I really haven't been reading posts thoroughly enough (see post #99).

The reason I found Lunatic scummy was cause his whole thing about being intellectual seemed like him forcing a leadership position. I mean, if someone is the leader, no one would suspect them (unless, again, I am wrong). He also took the side of everyone else in blaming brent, without providing any evidence of his own to support it, or saying which evidence he used to come to the conclusion. Seemed to me he was just imitating everyone else to seem townish. Again the reason I didn't vote for him was because of the L-2 fear. Also, and I'm not sure if my original post garnered this, I had no hard evidence to support me voting for him. One post, especially someone's only post, filled with mean comments does not garner a vote in my mind.

Pretty much I just re-said this :

Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.

So yeah that quote pretty much answers accusation 2 unless I am wrong.

Lunatic was accusing BrentM of being stupid and everything. He seemed to be agreeing with something already established by everyone. Kinda like "yeah I think so too" except exaggerated to make him seem townish. Also him calling himself intellectual seemed like he was trying to garner a leadership role. I found this suspicious. But again I didn't vote for him because I didn't want to start a wagon on him with no hard evidence besides him being a jerk.

But you called him scummy when you initally brought it up. What changed between then and now?

I don't see how that post says that I no longer find him scummy. I said he was agreeing with everyone else without providing evidence of his own or even finding other evidence to support it that someone else already said. And he was trying to garner a leadership role. Both are scummy to me. I know I'm basically saying the same thing over and over, but I really don't see how this does not answer both of your questions.

Basically you just accused me of something I already addressed. If I wasn't clear I will reiterate again.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

This post brought to you by

SAVE DRAFT, for all your paranoid post saving needs.

- King hopped on the lunatic bandwagon pretty quickly

My top suspects are either pine and lunatic as scum buds or possibly DP and King.

Uh, actually I was going to

create

the bandwagon on him, but I decided that would probably seem really scummy and didn't do it. Looking back that was a mistake. Also a mistake was me not explaining why I was voting for him, so now I am: (explaining, not voting, though I'm doing that to.)

/confirm

well sorry I haven't been posting very much, you see I have a life.

Seems as if he is justifying lurking...with veiled insults that we do not, in fact, have lives. It also seems as if he is merely justifying NOT POSTING, instead of say, not reading, not paying attention, or being unable to post for some reason. Purposefully lurking = scummy.

So here is what I'm seeing it as:

Mirror: Seems kinda nooby but hey so am I.

Eh, nothing to say about this.

King: voted for me so I'm a little biased. P.S. he's a dick

BrentM: Seems like the biggest douchebag EVER!!! and a little scummy with a hint of noob.

Two pointless insults, one of which is just in reaction to me voting for him due to his lurking, the other of which I don't get at all. (What did BrentM do???) He also simultaneously says BrentM scum and that he's just a noob. All of these seem scummy to me.

David: Seems like a town who is getting tunneled.

He gave no reason for thinking this or believing it, and I don't really get what he's talking about at all either.

Wolf: maybe scum.

Llama: haven't really made up my mind about.

tanstalas: IDK.

VOT Productions: IDK too.

Lunaticlucas: I think he's gonna win. P.S. I heard eh doesn't afraid of anything.

He gives no reason for this accusation (I feel like a hypocrite for posting that. <_<), says "I don't know" three times, then says this arrogant sounding thing about him winning. Perhaps he is convinced he will win due to being scum?


Oh, and here is something I just found whilst I was messing around with the forum things, the other game he has been in on this site, wherin he is a lurking townie. Since I don't know how to do the fancy "link with regular text" thing yet, I'm just gonna copy/past the web addresses.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2398421, Note the politeness, the politeness not shown in this game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p2402556,

Especially

note this one. Here he says that he understands why people would vote for him since he seems to be lurking, that he would do the same thing and is perfectly fine with it. No insults are used. Note that he insulted me for doing the exact same thing.

It's meta-ie and all but I thought I'd throw that out there as it has made me more convinced that he is, in fact, scum.

p.s. How do you multi-quote? I've seen it done in some of the other games on this site but I had to use the "save draft" feature.

p.p.s. This post would be better if my internet didn't spontaneously decide to dump it when I hit preview, thus forcing me to re-write the whole thing. Copius amounts of copy/pasting and paranoid draft saving ensued.

[MirrorIrorriM]

King sure summed up a case against Lunatic better then I could. I'm starting to think I'm not a very observant person.

[Pinewolf]

I'm starting to think the same way, mirror.

@king When i quote i just open the quote button of the post in another tab then copy-paste the stuff i want in my post. And i keep that one in a separate tab as well. Also, i recomend notepad to save long posts. I simply use that.

[bv310]

Day 1's Second Official Vote Count!

Pinewolf (L-3): BrentM, Tanstalas
Tanstalas (L-4): DavidParker
lunaticlucas (L-4): KingTwelveSixteen

Not voting: VOT Productions, lunaticlucas, Pinewolf, MirrorIrorriM, LlamaFluff

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch and 5 to no-lynch

Deadline is set for Thursday, December 23, 2010 at 11:59pm EST.

[MirrorIrorriM]

@Mod: Can you give VOT Productions a prod? He hasn't had one post besides his joining confirmation.

Already done

[BrentM]

dang, good points King

Especially his attitude in other games. I'd really like to hear from lunatic, but I agree with your conclusions.

Unvote, Vote lunaticlucas

[tanstalas]

@mod - What is Twilight rule #3? Did you use invisible text? Should you modkill yourself?

I don't know what you're talking about.

>.>
<.<

[MirrorIrorriM]

I definitely have the evidence I need now to do this.

Vote: Lunaticlucas

PS I really didn't think of looking at people's past games to build evidence against them. It's genius.

[MirrorIrorriM]

Just realized my vote puts him at L-2. Just thought I should shout that out so no one else goes crazy and lynches him early. :U

[DavidParker]

I prefer the pine wagon the the Luna wagon.

Vote: Pinewolf

Luna hasn't struck me as particularly scummy.

[VOT Productions]

Err... the last replies are quite... lol.

[VOT Productions]

Noticed there's no edit function, so I'll make a second post.

What do you mean by not voting? You mean can't vote or haven't voted?

[Pinewolf]

That puts me and Lunatic both at L-2 with 4 people not voting including me and him. So it's pretty much up to those people on who to lynch, influencing their votes is hard now. Pretty much depends on our past posts.
What i'm interested in is, if somebody could summarize the case against me so i can see if there's anything else making me look scummy other than that "definitely fiasco".

[tanstalas]

That puts me and Lunatic both at L-2 with 4 people not voting including me and him. So it's pretty much up to those people on who to lynch, influencing their votes is hard now. Pretty much depends on our past posts.
What i'm interested in is, if somebody could summarize the case against me so i can see if there's anything else making me look scummy other than that "definitely fiasco".

We have posted it, you should go back and read them, asking us to go back and summarize for you makes you look lazy if you are town you do not want to look lazy, as the only thing worse than scum is a jester or a PGO, followed closely by a lazy town If you are town you hurt the town by being lazy as you aren't contributing which makes you look scummy, which makes us focus attention on you which in turn distracts us from hunting scum. And worse case scenario we waste a lynch on a townie.

For you, and all the newbies please start asking questions of other players, or general gameplay questions (that IS what Llama is here for, he SIGNED UP to answer your questions and be as honest as he can be with you), throw some cases around, you throwing cases around might give us other thoughts or might point out something we have overlooked which will help us lynch scum.

Do some scum hunting, analyze people's posts, make a stronger case on them than we have on you. That is really the only advice I can give. The main points against you are the fact that your grammar used makes you look scummy. It has been said, it cannot be unsaid. Try to phrase things better in the future, give longer explanations maybe of describing what you mean to say since English isn't your first language. If there is no confusion as to what you said then it will probably not result in you giving us scummy vibes.

No one comes into mafia a pro, it takes experience to get to a point where you can scumhunt well, I am still very new and I am still learning, I am sure there are people on this site who have been here longer than me and still learn things. Try to play with more experienced players - the best way I find to learn is to play with the people who are good.

I believe you can sign up for mini, open, theme games, you are just restricted to one newbie game until you finish your first newbie game (I could be wrong on this, Llama can correct me if I am) however, I do stress do NOT get into more games than you can handle, starting out I think one to two games is manageable. However each person has their own limits and how much time they can spend with Mafia, me, my limit is probably 3 games, anything more than that and I start to lurk/flake and/or my posts suffer because I do not have enough time to dedicate to all the games I am in. You just need to post at least once every day, that is what mods usually expect from you, the bare minimum is once every 3 days usually, however if you are not participating you are not getting better and mods may not want you in their games because you only do the bare minimum.

If you do not think you can handle more than one game at once, try just following other games to see how people scumhunt or check out completed games, ignore the OP if the game is over (which shows what people were, scum/town) and try to read the posts and determine who in that game was scum based on what was said in the posts.

[Pinewolf]

I see. Well, nothing new i could say to defend myself springs to mind.
Well, me appearing lazy would be quite a baseless accusation. I made many posts and the fact i was bored, not lazy got me into trouble in the first place.

I shall listen to your advice and join a mini game. We'll see how that turns out. I should be able to handle 2 games.

As far as lunatic's case is concerned, i agree with it. King convinced me. I see him as the scummiest now. But i'm not too sure if i should vote for him and put him at L-1. Can any of the more expirienced users explain to me when it's wise to put someone at L-1 and when not?

I can learn, no problem with that. I'll definitely get some expirience from playing this game and all the other games i will play. Tbh, i already have a better knowledge of the game than when i started, though that seems pretty logical. But getting the ability to easily smell out scum might not come right away. Because right now i don't know what questions based on other people's posts i should make. I just don't see anything that stands out. :S

PS. Don't read too much into the second line of this post, it's just a joke. Just thought i'd put this here as i get the feeling that it could become some weird issue. :S

[KingTwelveSixteen]

Ok, just gotta say my internet decided to completly explode pretty much. I'm typing this in from my college. I

might

not be able to post very much for a little bit because of this. Of course I could also head back home and have the internet miraculously working again, but I think it's gonna be out for at least the rest of the day, possibly tommorow as well.

Just wanted to say that I am not lurking, I am in fact incapable of easy internet access at this time.

Try to play with more experienced players - the best way I find to learn is to play with the people who are good.

My experience with competetive video games says that this is completly true, if you can't find some experienced players to play with your play won't improve by very much, if at all.

[KingTwelveSixteen]

PS I really didn't think of looking at people's past games to build evidence against them. It's genius.

I feel like being all "experienced player" about this, even though I'm not actually that experienced.

META

------------------------------------------------------------------
Shorthand term for "Metagame". From Pen and Paper RPGs, "metagaming" is something that players do with their characters based on player knowledge, not character knowledge. For instance, you have your character search the far wall of a room endlessly because you "know that the GM ALWAYS puts secret doors in these rooms", even if it's not anything the character in the story would have knowledge of nor have reason to search for.

With respect to the game of Mafia, a player's Meta is the way in which he/she plays the game as each faction. A player with a Town role will play differently than a player with a Mafia role because of the nature of each faction and their method of operation within the game. This difference allows one to review past games that a person in question has played in, with the intention being that you will compare their play in Game X (where they were Mafia/Town) to their play now in order to determine what role they have in the current game. The players that excel at Mafia are able to make their Mafia play mirror their Town play almost identically, therefore neutralizing the ability of others to read their "Meta".

Stolen

Copied directly from the wiki! Note the last part, most players go out of their way not to be obvious about which team they're on. Or at least seem like they arn't mafia...You know what I mean.