Open 268: Raise the White Flag (Game Over)

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.03

werewolf555 (4) - yabbaguy, Chaotic Neutrality, bvoigt, rekirtS
drmyshottyizsik (2) - andrew94, werewolf555
andrew94 (1) - chkflip
chkflip (1) - silverbullet999
Cookie_of_Death (1) - Stefunny
Stefunny (1) - Cookie_of_Death

Not Voting (1) - drmyshottyizsik

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Tuesday, December 21, 11:59 PM EST (UTC-5).

[yabbaguy]

You're making the game regress, chkflip. We've looked at that and determined that it's highly unlikely he could've missed andrew's explanation of "there's C O P in the first letter of each line". I mean, I looked at his post and found C-O-P straightaway once bvoigt flagged the potential crumb.

If indeed I'm right, and werewolf is in this position, he has to try

something

to try to cover up the blunder. His reaction, first confrontational and then confused, strike me as odd because I would expect that he'd have something to say about the likelihood that he actually made a crumb (in other words, refuting our claims that the idiosyncrasies in his post were nothing more than just that and not a deliberate effort to crumb)

[chkflip]

Ah. Hadn't thought about it like that. You're so clever,

Y

yabbadude.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: werewolf555

[Cookie_of_Death]

You don't have to be an asshole, CN.

UNVOTE: andrew94
VOTE: Cookie_of_Death

Even though he wants more people to post, he tries to stop discussion here:

Why are you so insistent on this answer? It doesn't seem like it would provide any reliable indications of silver's alignment.

Plus, after making a semi-serious vote on chkflip, he changes his vote to Stefunny for an RVS-type reason.

Try to stop discussion? Anything to warrant that? Don't you think it could have elicited something from chkflip (I was actually hoping for that, and it never materialized)?

I guess you're just assuming we all think the second one is a scumtell.

[Cookie_of_Death]

As for the breadcrumb...

The initial double post could very well have been an accident, but post 53 is really throwing me off because it looks like werewolf is acknowledging he knows about the crumb and later acts like he's ignorant. Werewolf, what does post 53 mean?

Now, I also saw this:

its even in 3 lines format. the first of each sentence
forms
c
o
p
= cop.
there isnt a cop in this game.
i dont think werewolf555 scum would be so stupid to not realise that?
this wagon stinks of oppurtunistism

Anybody being opportunistic in particular? I don't see you making an effort to identify one person who you think is scum, just some generality thrown out there to try to discourage the wagon for no apparent reason.

Yay for serious voting now!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: andrew94

[andrew94]

1) it looked like a crumb to me, but he may or may not be crumbing
2) i dont know whether werewolf intended to put that crumb there
3) there are NO COPS, so why would scum make a cop crumb???????

+ hes reactions look confused so i guess hes not scum.

[rekirtS]

Just letting everyone know that werewolf is at L-1 now.

I agree with Cookie about andrew. if werewolf flips scum we pressure andrew and imo silverbullet tomorrow.

[andrew94]

^ sir, your logic is flawed. according to you sir, if werewolf flips town, all people on the wagon should be exteriminted
oppourunistic:

Ah. Hadn't thought about it like that. You're so clever,

Y

yabbadude.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: werewolf555

have you heard of the term sucking up to the

ic

person who seems pro(YES YABBA i read some of ur newbie games)
here lies oppourtunism ---> first doing the 'oh shit i dont understand' attitude then 'o yea i understand votes*' attitude so it doesnt look like blatant bandwagoning

[silverbullet999]

-chkflip

Hilarious that in one game you bitch at me for getting involved in a conversation involving you... and now you're bitching at me because I'm inquiring something of you.

Umm... questioning you, in once single post, is bitching about you now? I also don't remember bitching at you in our other game.. then again my memory is horrid (please link me where that occured).

Looks like I hit someone's soft spot because someone's becoming a bit overly defensive imo. I WONDER why...

-yababababa

If you want to call bullshit, post a link to prove it.

My fail scum newbie game where my fuck of a partner self hammered himself (yeah this game brings bad memories)

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=425

The one post that had a bread crumb of someone that my partner did. I know for a fact he was too much of a failure to do it on purpose.

[drmyshottyizsik]

wow /confirm
i missed alot, I would say that wolf needs to claim, but that does no good, so i skimmed and am willing to hammer at the end of tommorow if he doesn't look town by then, or provide a better case on someone else.
Sorry or coming in late i had a show tonight, and i have one every night for the next 5 days so, kinda limmitted access

[Cookie_of_Death]

^ sir, your logic is flawed. according to you sir, if werewolf flips town, all people on the wagon should be exteriminted
oppourunistic:

Ah. Hadn't thought about it like that. You're so clever,

Y

yabbadude.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: werewolf555

have you heard of the term sucking up to the

ic

person who seems pro(YES YABBA i read some of ur newbie games)
here lies oppourtunism ---> first doing the 'oh shit i dont understand' attitude then 'o yea i understand votes*' attitude so it doesnt look like blatant bandwagoning

You know your vote is still on shotty, right? Though after the latest post, I think it would be justified to keep your vote where it is.

wow /confirm
i missed alot, I would say that wolf needs to claim, but that does no good, so i skimmed and am willing to hammer at the end of tommorow if he doesn't look town by then, or provide a better case on someone else.
Sorry or coming in late i had a show tonight, and i have one every night for the next 5 days so, kinda limmitted access

Um, lol? We're only on page 4 and you haven't said

anything

about anyone else, and you're willing to end the day? How is that not scummy?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

[drmyshottyizsik]

yes i am because he looks very scummy.
It's not scummy because i said if he does anything pro town that i wouldn't, how is that not pro-town, nice misrep there.

[Cookie_of_Death]

I'm not sure where the misrep is. The fact that you would even consider hammering on page 4 is scummy to me regardless of everything else.

Anything to say about anyone else?

[drmyshottyizsik]

he's L-1 every one on his wagon better considder the posibilty of a hammer

[chkflip]

1) it looked like a crumb to me, but he may or may not be crumbing
2) i dont know whether werewolf intended to put that crumb there
3) there are NO COPS, so why would scum make a cop crumb???????

+

hes reactions look confused so i guess hes not scum.

- I had an opinion considerably similar to yours, but don't now that it's been reiterated. What's with the jumpy accusation? It's not like I'm lying here.

[chkflip]

@silverb:

-Chk

- It's both. You haven't posted much, and what you have is just fodder.
- Could you elaborate on the shotty case, from your own standpoint?

Glad you answer a question directed at someone else (no i'm not, answering someone else's question does not help town at all, you earn a few scum points for that).. let me explain whats wrong.. he said i barely posted much... but then said i have posted a decent amount.
-Shotty's flippin... seemed like he was pushing for the easy lynch, and seeing how i've play with andrew before... andrew is almost always the easy lynch.

- You're partially right, I'm quite irritable today. Stressing over finals. I'll try to pet the wolfy more often. xP

[yabbaguy]

I'm not sure where the misrep is. The fact that you would even consider hammering on page 4 is scummy to me regardless of everything else.

The pace of the game has been extremely accelerated by this fakecrumb allegation. Of course a hammer is permissible, that's why votes are even coming down in the first place since it both says "votee is scummy" and "I want the Day to end". I am absolutely happy for the Day to end right now. Maybe it's due to newbieness, but you need to now wrap your mind around the fact that if you believe wolf's crumb is fake, you should vote him. I'll say this as often as I have to, you either agree with the alleged fakecrumb case or you rip it down. Cookie, you're doing neither and you're driving me up a wall.

@andrew: Why is chkflip's *ahem* flip of opinion a concern? Is he not allowed to change his mind? Also, are you somehow thinking that I'm a manipulative sort of teacher, seeing as you're surprisingly confrontational about it? I'm absolutely being dramatic, but I'm basing this all off of the fact that wolf's likelihood of a scum flip is very high right now. Which of my games did you read?

silverbullet, is it the "SWITS" crumb, or something else? I didn't have much time to read your example game thoroughly, so I'll get to that in a sec.

[andrew94]

i read your newbie 971 ( i just checked but may have short term memory)

you cant just say - if you think the crumb is fake you vote him.
i simply see no scum motivation for putting a cop crumb? its not like hes gonna claim cop.
all that is possible is a retard scum that didnt read the game/ accidental townie.

the bandwagon is heavily opportunistic e.g chkflip, he changes hes mind way too fast

[Chaotic Neutrality]

you cant just say - if you think the crumb is fake you vote him.

i simply see no scum motivation for putting a cop crumb

? its not like hes gonna claim cop.
all that is possible is a retard scum that didnt read the game/ accidental townie.

I'm sorry, but the bolded statement made me chuckle a bit. There is

only

scum motivation for a cop claim. No townie in his right mind would fake crumb, and the way he made it (quite deliberately) is strongly indicative of scum tactics. You already know this (and hell, you pointed it out), so why do you seem so insistent on staying off his wagon? Strong

FoS

[yabbaguy]

I'll demonstrate the logic chain again, andrew. I think this has been discussed already though, and the more you drag my past arguments out of the recycle bin, the more the game regresses, and the more I think you're scummy.

• If you believe there was no deliberate crumb, then you don't vote werewolf. That's what you believe is the case though, so we proceed.
  
• werewolf is either Town or Mafia
  
• If werewolf is Town, but he's made the crumb, there really is no explicable reason for it. To do so would be nothing but deliberately anti-Town. Therefore we dismiss the possibility.
  
• If you believe the crumb is fake, this leads to the conclusion that he's not Town. Now we look at the Mafia motives, and we find that they're strange as well, but plausible. Especially considering the last White Flag that was run consisted of an Inadvertent Mountainous set of Town power roles (power roles whose abilities actually have no effect on the game), perhaps werewolf-scum overlooked the fact that this was explicitly Mountainous (no power roles) this go-round. The fact of the matter though is that if you believe werewolf has deliberately crumbed Cop, you must therefore assume that he has deliberately concocted a lie in the thread. There is zero Town motive, and while you have to bank on the fact that werewolf made a blunder, I could see that being the case.

Essentially, the accidental oversight comes in not seeing that a Cop never existed. The claim here, and the SOLE BASIS for making this decision, is whether or not you believe that the crumb was deliberate. If that's a crumb, it was NOT an accident that werewolf decided to lie about his role.

Yes, it's a wicked high-speed wagon. It's very rare that you get such allegedly damning evidence on the early side of D1, but fast isn't opportunistic.

[silverbullet999]

-chk

You're partially right, I'm quite irritable today. Stressing over finals. I'll try to pet the wolfy more often. xP

Eh ... it's still noted : P

-yabababa

yes that's the crumb

[Cookie_of_Death]

i read your newbie 971 ( i just checked but may have short term memory)

you cant just say - if you think the crumb is fake you vote him.
i simply see no scum motivation for putting a cop crumb? its not like hes gonna claim cop.
all that is possible is a retard scum that didnt read the game/ accidental townie.

the bandwagon is heavily opportunistic e.g chkflip, he changes hes mind way too fast

OK, through all this anti-chkflip rhetoric, you haven't said a word about shotty in a while and you're vote is still on him. This is starting to smell like bullshit to me.

UNVOTE:

[Cookie_of_Death]

EBWOP: That should be "your", not "you're"

[yabbaguy]

Cookie, could you

please

weigh in on the fakecrumb issue? Thanks.

[Equinox]

Yet another bump for your daily vote count!