Newbie 1046: Game Over

StefanB · Post Post #100 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:01 am

Okay first

unvote

, since that vote had really the main reason to get a reaction of Haylen and that worked or I was just lucky.

VOTE: Nikitakit

Even that I am trying to ask him a few questions:

1. What informations do you need from me? Okay I slightly excagerated on the lurkerpoints but it was clear that that were the once I was most sunspices of. The ignoring think should be clear now

2. The only reads you have are the AP is town and WIR is scummy because he is voting Deer with strage reason. Anythink else?

Other people:

AP: You mentioned Ghostlins Vote for WIR do you think that was suspicous? Who do you suspect beside WIR? Any reaction on the vote of Chkflip?

WIR: I want one. Joking aside, I have nothing against random thoughts, but why did you think that Deer was so scummy, even if it is over that one is wired.

StefanB · Post Post #101 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:19 am

Some facts I think are interesting:

Hurristat: First game.
Nikitakit: Second, wasn't very active in the other game, but got more active later. A fun fact the mod was Haylen! (Doesn't mean anythink a mod remembers players probably less than other players, I just thought it was interesting.)

WhenInRome · Post Post #102 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:42 am

GLaDOS, I put a FoS on Poe, not a vote.

Mod Edit: Vote count fixed. Please make corrections in bold in the future.

AwesomePoe · Post Post #103 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:53 am

chkflip wrote:- Nothing strikes me as particularly odd until your second post in the game. It's not really the fact that you more or less contradict yourself in the post (because I fully grasp the concept) but moreso the persnickety attitude you have in it. I'd certainly hope you've been potty trained, so really that's just aggressive fluff and quite anti-town in my book. We don't need to slap-fight, we need to play Mafia. Having played a THOUSAND games, Mr. Exaggerator, you should know that.

- CWUTIDIDTHAR? See how harsh wordplay can offend people? Not exactly 'ad hom' but it's not exactly nice, either. Don't get me wrong, though, as I don't want us all holding hands singing freakin coombaya and roasting smores (s'more what?) or anything, but we should try to keep it civil.

Yes I’m taking a certain attitude for this game. I am being cautious around people who seem to be friendly. WIR tried to help me and that felt incredibly wrong. I felt incredibly strong buddying from WIR so I am taking the opposite stance. I am not taking for granted anybody’s town status. This might distance me from others or put them off, but it’s the play style I’m going with.

- Only two posts later we see you again, being even more aggressive and now acquiring tunnelvision. Sure, it could be because of WIR's post between your two posts, but I see it more like scum trying to turn an FoS into a solid (looking) vote. Who are you to say that random thoughts don't get anywhere? I'm a heavy advocate for random thoughts -- I call it thinking outside of the box, which is exactly what WIR's 52 reads to me. It certainly isn't indicative to his alignment, not at all, but you seem to take anything he says and twist it to your scum-motivated liking. THEN, if blasting his thoughts wasn't enough... you... I don't even know what to call this spectacular contradiction. If thinking this randomly is worthless, why WASTE THE TIME (which is what you'd think) ANSWERING THEM? So you can build a fakecase against WIR, I see. And a weak one at that. The last sentence is like the cherry on top of this sweet scum!dae. "Your reason for voting Deer is not strong." And you picking apart three of his "worthless" random thoughts on top of a single tactic that put a sour taste in your mouth... that's better? I think not.

Follow my train of thought, just for a second. I had a scum read on WIR but I did not want to jump on his wagon straight away. I wanted to wait until he posted answers some other people’s questions before I voted him. I put my FoS on him. When he came back with iso 9, he didn’t put up a case for his town status. He did make a weak reason for voting Deer, which was where his vote was already. That was when I voted WIR. I held back before putting him at L-2, because like Ghostlin, I wanted some more information from him not just a quick lynch.

- Your final post strikes a chord with me as well. How do you know how scum will act? How does any of that wine help us in the slightest? The reddest of all the flags in this post is the fact that you point out that SCUM WANT TO BLEND IN TO TOWN WAGONS. Oh, OH, you mean like you blending so perfectly into WIR's wagon?

Yes this was terrible on my part. Rereading my post, it just sucks. I was curious of Ghostlin’s actions. He has been posting a lot but I didn’t understand what he was trying to do with all his posts. He wasn’t building any wagons, but he was posting a bunch of theory out there. I saw him take his vote off of WIR and I read him scummy. Rereading, it’s much less scummy and a lot more town.

Ghostlin · Post Post #104 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:59 am

From Nikitanit:

Ghostlin: "Causal inception" and Vote/unvote are the only things that stand out to me, but that's not enough to base a case on.

Two questions: 1) If this isn't enough to base a case around why are you still voting me?

AND

2) That last post gives off somewhat random suspicions of people you suspect but really aren't worth your vote, but doesn't include who you suspect and ARE worth your vote.

If deadline was tomorrow, who would you vote that was scum?

nikitakit · Post Post #105 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:29 pm

Sorry guys, I'm overwhelmed with stuff in real life. Yes, I know that lurking is bad, and I'm trying to fix that. If I can't get myself to post more often within the next day, I'll probably have to ask for a replacement.

StefanB: The way I'm understanding you is that your #1 concern is to do something about all of the lurkers. Hope that's an accurate description. Here's a question: do you support policy-lynching all lurkers, or are you going after lurkers right now only because there aren't decent scumtells around?

WhenInRome:

WhenInRome wrote: I don't see how "causal inception" is scummy

I'm not saying it's scummy, I'm saying the phrase caught my attention and confused me. Not necessarily a scumtell.

Ghostlin:

#1 is misinterpreting my vote, which is still from RVS. I haven't cast an actual vote yet in the game because at the time of my first WIR accusation, before is that he was at L-2) To be clear,

Unvote

#2: WhenInRome, if deadline approaches

He's still my top suspect. The old arguments are that he RVSed Deer, kept it as a real vote for reasons unknown, and then changed his mind. My opinion of him hasn't changed very much. He seems to be going after AwesomePoe, one of his top accusers earlier. I didn't get a scum read on AwesomePoe during AwesomePoe's early posts, and the issue that WhenInRome raises doesn't change my read. (I do, however, feel the need to do a reread of AwesomePoe). I'm still waiting on WhenInRome's promised analysis of other players, and wondering if there's a reason why he hasn't posted it yet.

I'm hitting the "Post" button now, the rest of my thoughts will be coming soon...

hurristat · Post Post #106 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:45 pm

Sorry I wasn't here yesterday, something came up and I wasn't able to access teh interwebs. And w/r/t to me being a lurker initially, I'm now keeping a tab open on my firefox browser with this game for the duration (or until I die).

And w/r/t to gender, unless I know for sure what gender you are, I use s/he, a gender-neutral term. (So, WIR, no offense, lol)

Here are my thoughts, which are spoiler'd for length:

(told you it was long)

AwesomePoeWell, to start, there's this, his RVS vote:

Deer took the longest time to confirm. He has already given me such a scummy void, his post are like black darkness bottoming out under the universe.

Surprisingly dark and morbid (although this means nothing), but tries to back up an RVS vote (which, by definition, is random), with a reason and is somewhat confrontational towards Deer, instead of just lynching for a reaction/response.

S/he recognizes this in this post

In the RVS, the only motivation for anyone one to vote is to drive the game forward.

but is still voting based on some bogus reason.

The reasoning in the rest of his/her seems solid and aligned with town, but his/her vote is still somewhat suspicious.

S/he fixes this voting discrepancy in this post:

I am a fan of voting people I have suspicions on. But I am also I fan of getting real information from the people I vote. My first vote got the attention of Deer and WIR. Deer asked my a question which I answered. Simple I don't really have a read on Deer.

Which removes much of the suspicion s/he garnered with their RVS vote, but I'm still a bit suspicious.

S/he continues with this:

I like giving my own answers to questions directed at me. Being potty trained I know how to handle my own business. When somebody else tries to answer for me, I start suspecting them trying to direct the flow of the conversation.

I could just be missing some massive metaphor, but, like chkflip says, it's somewhat "persnickety" and kind of confrontational. I could just be projecting a non-existent personality, and I could just be making a rebuttal to an as-yet-to-be-presented WIFOM argument, and he has a valid point in bringing up what he brings up, but the manner in which he brings it up is... interesting to say the least.

This post stood out to me:

Random thoughts aren't constructive. They don't make good cases for voting, nor do they clarify another person's actions. Reading your post, WhenInRome, I don't understand what point any of these thoughts make.

WhenInRome was adding his input to the town, and AwesomePoe dismisses it as "not constructive" and "pointless." As far as I'm concerned, any input is helpful, even if they're mafia -- they could slip up and make a mistake, and if they're town, they probably have good ideas that the rest of the town can benefit from (which is why my lurking is so bad). Trying to shut someone up because you don't like their argument...

AP didn't say anything until chkflip's diagnosis, where s/he said this:

I am being cautious around people who seem to be friendly.

yes, and this is good... but it's almost like s/he's looking for a reason to vote/put an FoS on someone, and not allowing the target of the FoS to exonerate themselves. Ultimately, all the town has on their side is logic and reason, and s/he dismisses it as "not constructive" and "pointless."

Final judgment:

FoS: AwesomePoe

S/he seems to have developed tunnel vision over the course of the first third of the day, refusing to hear outside arguments and not considering other points of view. Hasn't posted much otherwise.

chkflipchkflip does the RVS correctly, and states as much... good so far.

There's the moment that could possibly be an OMGUS moment for me, but he is just commenting on my lurking (sorry!), and the brevity in my posts does not exactly help at all either (I'm like Deer in that respect), but as soon as I mention the reason for my strange L-2 comment and the special dosage of brevity given, chkflip recants on that statement and tries to bring me in and get my point of view. Which is a good thing.

(note to chkflip: I assume this is adequate, lol)

And the analysis is great. Right now, I'm leaning towards town for chkflip.

DeerInitially, Deer didn't do anything to protest the two RVS votes, which I guess is okay, but he doesn't really do anything until the matter is pressed.

I like how he plays the devil's advocate: the town is best equipped when every point of view is present,

He does seem a bit aloof, but this may just be a function of the brevity of his posts.

Final judgment:

So, far Deer seems like town. However, due to that bit of aloofness, and since mafia have a tendency to want to seem separate:

IGMEOY: Deer

Just watching, that's all.

GhostlinDang, you post a lot.

But, you post quality posts, and they make sense and your intentions seem town-based. Or you're an incredibly good mafia.

Keep doing what you're doing.

GLaDOSWe shouldn't lynch her, she's a confirmed moderator.

HaylenGhostlin brings up an interesting point with this quote:

I'm trying to tell you all everything before I die >.<

It's true, that is a very strange thing to say, and while it doesn't tell us anything, and it could just be that IC-protecting-the-noobs mentality kicking in, and it's a nulltell, but it still is a bit strange.

Otherwise, Haylen seems okay.

This could just be the level of experience she has

(WIFOM doesn't work). She's explained her comment in a satisfactory manner, and right now I see no reason to suspect her.

hurristatWay too inactive. Can't get a read. Needs to get his a** in gear and start to contribute.

nikitakitAgain, just like hurristat, way too inactive. However, all of his posts seem to say, "I have no idea what is going on." This doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it's worth pointing out.

StefanBGood logic, and inquisitive, which is always a good thing.

But the one thing that I don't quite get is his vote for Ghostlin early on because of her casual inception comment. Why would you vote someone just because you don't understand what they're saying? Yes, I know the language barrier exists, but it's possible to ask for a clarification, you don't need to vote.

Otherwise, I can't really get a feel for him... he seems to be concerned with the town, but there's something that seems out of place with StefanB. Right now, I'm not leaning either way on him, so I'm going to keep an eye on him, just in case.

WhenInRomeAh, WIR.

His vote on Deer was RVS, but he tried justifying it. That is a bit strange, but at least he recognizes that RVS /should/ be random, so this really doesn't make me suspicious at all, like AP's RVS vote.

It is interesting, however, that WhenInRome answered _for_ AwesomePoe. Maybe it's buddying, maybe it's just WIR having a naturally non-suspicious personality.

Ultimately, upon reconsideration, I'm a bit suspicious of WIR, but on the other hand, he could just be a frustrated townie. So,

IGMEOY: WIR

Hurristat: Please get an avatar. Can we expect you to be more active in the future?

I tried uploading an avatar, but it wouldn't let me. (D:) I'll try again. And yes, you can expect me to be more active in the future. With the time between confirming role and starting the game, I forgot about it for a bit *is shot by GLaDOS* I'm back now.

Deer · Post Post #107 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:47 pm

Hurristat, through all of that, why not place a vote?

hurristat · Post Post #108 (ISO) » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:52 pm

Deer wrote:Hurristat, through all of that, why not place a vote?

Whoops, forgot that part.

For the aforementioned reasons,

Vote: AwesomePoe

StefanB · Post Post #109 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:05 am

First Nikitakit: At the moment I don't have a policy. First game and all.
Whom I will lynch: There are more factors that play a role: How scummy do I think are the active players? Alternative is a lurker. And of course it playes a role, who I can lynch, alone all policy is only theory. At the end it's a team afford.

Second Hurristat: Okay, thats a good catchup post. Personaly I would rather have a wallpost than the spoilerpost, but thats just me.
The casual inception comment had nothing to do with me voting Ghostlin, also that brevery think had nothing to do with it. I voted him because of the "Haylen's job" comment. In this case I thought a vote would be stronger than just questining.
If it helps you AP is male. Normaly under the Avatar second line stands in most cases male or female. If you search for a certain person you can iso them. Read how on Page 1 Posting 10 (its just at the begining of Haylens post.
Just to make it easier: Haylen and our mod GLaDOS are female, everyone else is male.

Ghostlin · Post Post #110 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:13 am

From Poe:

Yes this was terrible on my part. Rereading my post, it just sucks. I was curious of Ghostlin’s actions. He has been posting a lot but I didn’t understand what he was trying to do with all his posts. He wasn’t building any wagons, but he was posting a bunch of theory out there.
I saw him take his vote off of WIR and I read him scummy.
Rereading, it’s much less scummy and a lot more town.

Huh? Unvoting is scummy? I still find this curious, because it seems to indicate to me you didn't read the thread when you first posted the suspicion, which concerns me, because you didn't either read the revelant part of what I posted to find out why I had unvoted, or you just sort of picked out what you might make a case out of.

Also, chkflip makes a good point: how exactly do we know you're not doing the exact same thing. In fact, both you and WIR have votes on each other and both of you I'd say are good for a lynch. Also, Haylen accused me of coaching, but this is also an interesting coaching moment from you:

@WhenInRome: You should take caution defending people you do not know. I don't know your motives but buddying up to me looks more scummy on you then me.

Also, what do you have to say about hurristat's current suspicions on you?

Haylen · Post Post #111 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:29 am

I read that more of a warning than coaching. It's difficult to explain, almost as though he was accusing WIR.

StefanB · Post Post #112 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:05 am

Mod:

Can I ask for a votecount please?
The reason is Awesome Poe. (Good catch, Ghostlin)

Now a post from AP his last on Ghostlin:

I saw him take his vote off of WIR and I read him scummy. Rereading, it’s much less scummy and a lot more town.

Ghostlin asked what was scummy about unvoting. What he didn't mention was that he unvoted WIR because he put him on L-1 by acident. (and gave probibly all players a shock by doing this)

So unvoting of L-1 to not quickhammer on day 1 is somethink you considered scummy? And when he thought that Ghostlin was scummy he posted that (was his second to last post)

I understand unvoting the quick lynch because a quick lynch doesn't yield much info for day two.

So I read you right, you understand what Ghostlin was doing and think its scummy at the same time?
I think I would put AP on L-2, but I'm not sure so just

Unvote

FOS Poe

GLaDOS · Post Post #113 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:40 am

Day One Vote Count #6

2 AwesomePoe (chkflip, hurristat)
1 hurristat (Ghostlin)
1 nikitakit (Deer)
1 WhenInRome (AwesomePoe)

With

9

alive it takes

5

to lynch. Deadline is January 27 at 7:30 PM CST.

Not Voting – 4 – Haylen, nikitakit, StefanB, WhenInRome

StefanB · Post Post #114 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:52 am

Thanks GLaDOS

VOTE: Poe

Ghostlin · Post Post #115 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:57 am

Reading WIR in ISO, I can't decide if he's just misleading or new at this, but I don't find anything to necessarly argure my previous vote; there's a lot of distortions there. Also a lot with AP, but I like WIR a bit more due to a little less content.

VOTE: WIR

hurristat · Post Post #116 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:56 am

Edit to incredibly long post: please read all possessives and pronouns in my summary of AwesomePoe's actions as the masculine form.

nikitakit · Post Post #117 (ISO) » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:34 pm

Rereading AwesomePoe, I'm starting to get a scummy vibe as well. I'm not talking about phrases like the "black darkness bottoming out under the universe" or "Being potty trained" -- these are just playstyle and not evidence of anything. As others pointed out, the vote situation is the weirdest part: he claims to have been hesitant to vote WIR initially, and then says he thought Ghostlin was scummy because of removing the L-1 vote. These words are probably either a slip-up if he's scum or an honest statement if he's town. Don't want to get into WIFOM here, but I can imagine both cases.

Iso re StefanB: Early game was a discussion with Ghostlin, which he tells people to ignore. Then there's a long series of posts that have mostly to do with lurkers (either telling lurkers to speak up or explaining why lurking is bad). I was actually starting to get suspicious of you for being so singularly focused on examining just the player(s) that were not posting at a given time. I began to imagine an experienced scum hiding in that role, making easy accusations and staying mostly under the radar. (Actually, in one of the archived games I read the IC did just that). Your last two posts mostly changed my mind on this point, considering you're now out of intense anti-lurker mode, so I'm going to say that for now I don't have very many suspicions about you.

Iso re Haylen: I consider the "Before I die" comment to be a null read. I didn't notice any distortion or dubious arguments in her iso -- though besides that big wall of text and all of the IC advice there's only 4.5 game-relevant posts, not a lot to judge on. I'm leaning town (though I might just be giving the IC the benefit of the doubt because in my first game I was largely responsible for lynching the ICcop).

Right now, only one weird point that hasn't been brought up:

Haylen wrote:I have to move to a different room now cause I'm at Uni, will post my other two analysis when I get home.

Hasn't happened yet.

A few players left that I want to analyze, should be coming up in my next post.

StefanB · Post Post #118 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:43 am

The stresic week is over (not talking about the game)

Nikitakit: I don't tell people that the have to ignore the discusion of Ghostlin and me. I tell them that (or try to do anyway), it's in my opinion not the most important think in the game and if it's to confusing or complicated and stops you to get in the game, concentrate on other thinks. (I hope that's clear enough.
I went after lurkers, because I thought
1) now we still have time.
2) I was shocked there were so few people posting.
3) More activity is somethink that makes people more redable.
4) Nobody else was posting about lurkers at last when I started it.

Also a thanks beeing compared to an IC is a complement, I try to play the game intellegent, but this is my first forumgame. (Even if he though it's a scummy IC, that not complement)

hurristat · Post Post #119 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:28 am

StefanB wrote:I went after lurkers, because I thought:
1) now we still have time.
2) I was shocked there were so few people posting.
3) More activity is something that makes people more readable.
4) Nobody else was posting about lurkers when I started it.

I have to agree with StefanB here -- bringing the lurkers out of the shadows helps keep the discussion moving (which is something we quite obviously need) and it helps us get reads on all of the lurkers, which you know, is awesome.

Also, StefanB must be mafia, he's Italian (I think)! (joking)

StefanB · Post Post #120 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:40 am

Wrong hurristat! German.
But this has nothing to do with the game, all roles were given randomly.

WhenInRome · Post Post #121 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:10 am

Hey everyone, just wanted to say I'm still here, I don't want to post when I don't have anything to say (it clogs up the forum), but if you have any questions, feel free to ask them.

StefanB · Post Post #122 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:00 am

Hello WIR, you wanted to post what you think of Ghostlin, Deer and me. Found nothing good or did you just forget it?

AwesomePoe · Post Post #123 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:05 pm

As for my suspicion of Ghostlin: I expected some different actions from him after taking his vote off WIR. I concluded that Ghostlin was going to build a case against some other player to have an alternative to vote WIR. In this way he could seem to be on the WIR wagon without intending to see the wagon to lynch. It would make since if they were scumbuddies. But I realized it is much too early in the game to look for scum pairs yet. Also I see he has put his vote on WIR, so I see some pretty big holes in that theory.

As for reactions to hurristat: I don’t like them. While cflip had some amazing insight, hurristat I found lacking. cflip was the first to talk about the increasing surety of my posts toward voting WIR. He saw it as aggressive and bull-headed. A sure anti-town tell, whether it comes from scum or town. hurristat on the other hand makes his case that WIR posted meaning commentary. I still hold fast to my opinion of that post. It was not very helpful to town. I still can not understand what points he was trying to make. This makes hurristat’s vote weaker than cfilp’s.

I just saw a strange post that nobody has commented on yet. After hurristat posted his player analysis in which he puts the FoS on me, Deer posted a quick question and then hurristat voted me. It might have been Deer giving hurristat a push to go ahead and vote for me. If that is the case then Deer might be directing votes towards me.

@Deer: Why did you assume hurristat forgot to vote? He stated his player analysis but he didn’t have to put his vote on anyone yet.

Deer · Post Post #124 (ISO) » Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:35 pm

Poe, I personally think it's in everyone's best interest for each player to have a vote on another player at all times. It helps let the town know who everyone is suspecting at a given time, helps in vote count analyses, and is generally just the best course of action.