Newbie 1046: Game Over

For Newbie Games, which have a set format and experienced moderators. Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #50 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:32 pm

Post by GLaDOS »

Day One Vote Count #3


2 Deer (WhenInRome, AwesomePoe)
2 Ghostlin (nikitakit, StefanB)
2 WhenInRome (Haylen, Deer)

With
9
alive it takes
5
to lynch. Deadline is January 27 at 7:30 PM CST.

Not Voting – 3 – chkflip, Ghostlin, hurristat

Note
: CST is GMT-6.
"Aperture Science: We do what we must because we can."
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Post Post #51 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:00 pm

Post by AwesomePoe »

I am a fan of voting people I have suspicions on. But I am also I fan of getting real information from the people I vote. My first vote got the attention of Deer and WIR. Deer asked my a question which I answered. Simple I don't really have a read on Deer.
unvote


WIR saw me vote Deer and tried to answer for me.

I like giving my own answers to questions directed at me. Being potty trained I know how to handle my own business. When somebody else trys to answer for me, I start suspecting them trying to direct the flow of the conversation. WIR put the first vote on Deer. If scum vote somebody RVS they would not want their vote to be questioned. Neither would they want other people who incidentally voted with them to be questioned. That's two votes towards a mislynch as freebies.

WIR is the scummiest atm, and my finger of suspicion is on him.
I'll say one thing about the doc issue. I'm from the future. I can here in a time machine that the Doc invented. Now I need his help to get back to the year 1985.
-AP Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:35 pm
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Post Post #52 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:37 pm

Post by WhenInRome »

Ok, here's my thoughts, in no particular order:

1.I think the "before I die" comment was completely unnecessary and out of place. If Haylen IS town, that is just drawing attention to him and possibly getting him killed. If he's scum, it's just drawing attention to himself. Either way, it makes no sense.

2. No one mentioned this, but where's nikitakit? She has one post where she said she'd be "a little busy". She has not posted since. Being busy is fine, excessive lurking is not.

3.I'm a little confused on the usage of "bussing" here. I thought bussing was the act of scum voting scum to take away suspicion. The way you guys use it make my head hurt (it always does when I play mafia).

4.
2) Sheeping is a me-too attitude that you can see in some games, usually accompanies a vote for a wagon. Bussing is jumping on a wagon for bad or no reason. Let me ask you this question: If someone
repeatedly
defends or asks someone's questions for them in a game where two people know each other are on a team when anyone else doesn't and want to cause the other players to lose, what might you think of that person?
Not relevant because of the bolded word. Repeatedly defending someone is a scumtell. Putting your opinion in that happens to defend a certain player is not.

5.
RVS isn't nothing but fluff. RVS actions can definitely help catch scum.
I've never been a huge fan of RVS anyways.
The first one certainly makes it sound like you like RVS, while the second one contradicts that. Contradictions=scumtell. Liking RVS when it's convenient, and not liking it when it'll make you look good=scumtell.
Deer seems the scummiest to me, so I'm sticking with my vote.

P.S. Mech style looks awesome, try it sometime.
BEN DROWNED

Worst luck ever: Last townie alive. They lynched me. (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16353)
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Post Post #53 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:27 pm

Post by AwesomePoe »

Random thoughts aren't constructive. They don't make good cases for voting, nor do they clearify another person's actions. Reading your post, WhenInRome, I don't understand what point any of these thoughts make.

1. So Haylen's comment seems out of place, but she must be either town or scum. she can't be anything else. There is no third option. Her comment is meaningful to her post. The fact is WIFOM is coming so decide which side of the scum fence Haylen seems to be on, and contiune on.

skipping ahead

4. You are refering to your response when Deer asked me why I voted the same as you. Which is not what Ghostlin was talking about at all. He was talking about a pattern he has seen in some other games. If you do not want to follow the pattern just don't do it. Justifying scummy actions and scummy patterns is not the way to get attention away from your self.

5. This isn't a contradiction or a scumtell. RVS actions can lead to some really good scumhunting, but you don't really have to like it. Coding C++ is frustrating but really awesome too because I have to build almost everything from square one. Which is what RVS is, square one.

Your reason for voting Deer is not strong.
Vote: WhenInRome
I'll say one thing about the doc issue. I'm from the future. I can here in a time machine that the Doc invented. Now I need his help to get back to the year 1985.
-AP Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:35 pm
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Post Post #54 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:29 pm

Post by nikitakit »

I've been a little busier than I expected. It's likely that I won't be posting more than once per day for the next few days.
About the main points that have been brought up:

Haylen's statement stands out a little because it takes a certain personality to say that kind of thing casually. I don't know enough about Haylen's playing style to tell if it's scummy or not. I see no reason to make a big discussion out of it at this point. I'm leaning scummy on WhenInRome, partially because of the AwesomePoe comment but mostly because I can't understand his arguments against Deer. The point about those two quotes may have some validity, but I see it more as the "they're not convinced, let's dig up some more evidence" type post than "this is the reason why I find Deer scummy". That's fine, but I'm not clear about the other evidence. Your vote is still from RVS: when did it become a real vote, or is it still a vote in the absense of better options?

It's hard to get a good read on anyone else. AwesomePoe seems slightly townish. I'll need to do a re-read before I can comment on StefanB or Ghostlin.
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Post Post #55 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:54 pm

Post by StefanB »

Okay first Ghostlin:

Sorry for the confusing part. I wanted to say that I was bragging. (what was wrong)
Independent thinking is very important, you are right in this point. I just thought that you overeacted quite a bit and use this thinks a bit to fast. That can be as much bad for the town, as what you try to prevent. The moment that means that my vote will stay there a little bit longer.
I'm thinking about something else at the moment. What if someone makes a very good case against someone else, where he list a lot of points. You agree that this person is scummy but can't think of anythink that is new. I try to make my own arguments but they are nothing new. Okay to vote for you and what would you do in this case?
The answering questions or atacks for other people. Yes thats very bad. I make exception on a few points.
1. Very bad attack, thats so unlogical or wrong, that it hurts. In that case I have no problem with it.
2. A undercase: The person who made the atack is scummy because of the attack.
3. A bad case of missing vital information from the game.
4. Trying to break Tunnelvision.
5. You are thinking that town is very near on lynching a townie.

So the post of WIR: Please don't do that again, WIR. What I think about this. It was not a difficult question, so AwesomePoe shouldn't have that much problem in answering it. If WIR thinks he will have problems with it and answered it because of this reason, than that game will become interesting. Presure on AwesomePoe could lead interesting results. So for once I'm not going against WIR for that, if he answeres questions for Poe again, whitout having a good reason than it will not go so strong.

And by the way your bussing is just a distancing.

So that was me take about Gostlin the rest in another post.
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Post Post #56 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:02 pm

Post by Deer »

Being useful =/= something I like participating in. You can't ignore RVS actions, but that doesn't mean I don't want to get it over with. Your contradiction is not one at all, and the whole thing seems like thinly veiled OMGUS.
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Post Post #57 (ISO) » Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:14 pm

Post by StefanB »

Okay slight correction:
whitout having a good reason than it will not go so strong
should have mean: I will pressure stronger.

Okay another correction: I didn't want to say that AP was sure scum or something yust that if Ghostlin means it he should pressure him.

AwesomePoe: I like it that you are more active stay that way.

Nikitakit: Be active. I know that it is very difficult to get reads on people, be patient we are just on page 3. The only think that you should be sure of know is that if one of us is scum, he didn't take the lurker rute.

Lets get to the lurkers: chkflip and hurristat haven't posted once. Hello guys!!!!!!!!!

And to get back to Ghostlin (sorry must get my thoughts in more order): You are not voting, why?

WIR (just the new points) just in the first point, get the he/she think in order, you are not making friends with that. Also post more.

Mod Edit: Quote tag fixed.
Last edited by GLaDOS on Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #58 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:50 am

Post by Ghostlin »

StefanB wrote:Okay slight correction:
[whitout having a good reason than it will not go so strong/quote]

should have mean: I will pressure stronger.

Okay another correction: I didn't want to say that AP was sure scum or something yust that if Ghostlin means it he should pressure him.

AwesomePoe: I like it that you are more active stay that way.

Nikitakit: Be active. I know that it is very difficult to get reads on people, be patient we are just on page 3. The only think that you should be sure of know is that if one of us is scum, he didn't take the lurker rute.

Lets get to the lurkers: chkflip and hurristat haven't posted once. Hello guys!!!!!!!!!

And to get back to Ghostlin (sorry must get my thoughts in more order): You are not voting, why?

WIR (just the new points) just in the first point, get the he/she think in order, you are not making friends with that. Also post more.
The simplest answer is I don't vote until someone says something scummy or is active lurking. I was going to vote nikita, to be honest, but he actually posted; and something relevant to the conversation. Yes, I do vote active lurkers; the fact that they only post sporadically means they could be staying under the radar. The only reason why I like RVS is it's the staging ground for discussion like this, I've never been a fan of 'lol, I'm voting X because the sky's blue.' It rankles, this is a game of deduction, and while I'm sure you all are great folks, there's not much mafia playing done there until someone says something odd.

I am going to vote now. Right now I like the logic of WIR less and less; and it's been things like: he answers for Poe, he distorts at least two sentences for two different people as a particularly eager set of scum tells, and Deer's right, it almost seems like a thinly concealed OMGUS, which is bad. He's also not a horrifically prolific poster, when you read at least his last few comments, while they aren't lengthy, which is good, they don't tell us much of what's going on with his vote and who he suspects, which means he's playing it close to the vest. The longest post was kinda all over the place, and filled with bad logic. All of that right now makes WIR my favorite suspect.

Vote: WIR


Interestingly enough, I'm not a huge fan of Deer's posts either, although they have more content. While it wouldn't seem that Deer would scum buddy WIR, it would not be untoward scum play to stage an argument over something in order to distance one's self from the argument. Deer's a more prolific poster in volume of posts...I'm not sure what part of this total package makes me suspect Deer yet, it's a case that's started with someone I personally distrust in scum play that I'm working on a more developed case (or willing to drop) as time goes by.

IGMEOY: Deer


Stefan B: I've caught some distortions in your posts, but I'm not sure they're bad enough to be scummy. I'll probably watch it, and try to determine if the lack of understanding is intentional (you're trying to intentionally distort my intentions/what I say in my posts) or a difference in game play or language barrier. It's not as naked as WIR's deliberate distortion of: I've done something only once, so I get a free pass;
or
because you said you hate the RVS but say that actions that can be taken during it can be helpful to town, you're contradicting yourself, hence you are scummy.

FoS: Stefan B
"You live for the fight when it's all that you've got."--Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer
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Post Post #59 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:51 am

Post by Ghostlin »

EBWOP: The he/she thing also may annoy you dude, but isn't a scum tell, so please do us all a favor and don't base any cases on it. Folks do it all the time.
"You live for the fight when it's all that you've got."--Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer
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Post Post #60 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:01 am

Post by Ghostlin »

Oh, crap. That'll put WIR at L-1, which is much too early for this game. I thought he would be at L-2 with my vote. Sorry guys, I'm downgrading him for now, because I don't want someone to accidently hammer. Or on-purpose accidently for now.

unvote
FoS: WIR


I apologized, I just counted the votes myself, it'd be Haylen, Deer, Poe, myself on WIR's wagon, the next vote could quicklynch him and I don't want to give scum that opportunity this early in the game.
"You live for the fight when it's all that you've got."--Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer
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Post Post #61 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:02 am

Post by Ghostlin »

EBWOP: So the mod doesn't get confused, it should read:

unvote


FoS: WIR
"You live for the fight when it's all that you've got."--Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer
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Post Post #62 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:18 am

Post by StefanB »

Ghostlin: I wasn't making a case against WIR because of the genderthink. (Since I was the only onee who did say something about it, if you don't count Haylen's RVSV) I just asked him to look at it, since it was strange.
Okay my last post was trying to try the nice angle to get people to talk.
On the other hand me voting you makes no sense at the moment, so
Unvote
This has nothing to do with the FOS (I think that is a weaker weapon than a vote)
I hope that people get more active.
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Post Post #63 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:04 am

Post by chkflip »

Lost internets, but now it has returned. Will catch up as I can. Which will be very very soon. Thanks mod for not replacing me out. :D
"Fuck you. I opened up my heart to you and you stabbed it a thousand times." - Gamma, to me, right before confessing to being the town vig and murdering my scum partner N1.
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Post Post #64 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:29 am

Post by chkflip »

I like both Deer and Haylen's defense/etc thus far, but it could change with the course of the game. What I'm not exactly following is the flak on Deer for being last to /confirm. Isn't he a replacement for tj? Meaning it had to sit in tj's box for a bit before deer got it, which would be the same for Haylen iirc.

VOTE: Deer


[RVS reason here]

UNVOTE:


1. Is there any time coming up where we can expect you to not be very active? If I lose my internet again, but I don't see that happening.

2. Have you familiarized yourself with Mafia Discussion and the Wiki? Yes, but that doesn't mean I frequent them.

3. Have you read at least one completed game on site? I've played in several, obviously, but solely read? None.

4. What is your experience level? How many games have you played? I'd say I'm a solid SE but I've played under ten games in total though, half of which were on a site where they're more chit-chatty than anything.
"Fuck you. I opened up my heart to you and you stabbed it a thousand times." - Gamma, to me, right before confessing to being the town vig and murdering my scum partner N1.
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Post Post #65 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:43 pm

Post by Haylen »

I thought I was on to something for a bit with WIR, but someone then gave away what I was going to ask next by revealing Deer hadn't taken any less time than anybody else to confirm. I think my line of thinking here is pretty easy to prove.
WIR wrote: If Haylen IS town, that is just drawing attention to him and possibly getting him killed. If he's scum, it's just drawing attention to himself. Either way, it makes no sense.
It makes no sense as either alignment, thus what I said is a total nulltell. It is indicative of nothing but my personality.

Everything else seems a bit confusing for me at the moment, but that's probably because it's 1.40am. Everything's confusing at 1.40am. It would probably be wise for me to not post my reads until I'm more awake tomorrow and can read again - when you're sleepy, you miss things.
Seriously. Read your role PM before playing.
I am sorry if you have to prod me, I have absolutely no concept of time.

My prefered pronoun set is "cie/cir/cirs[elf]" but they is more than acceptable.
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Post Post #66 (ISO) » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:04 pm

Post by AwesomePoe »

I know smart scum will act as if they were just as blind as town. Scum will not in normal circumstances defend other scum from wagons forming around them. They may even jump on the wagon. But They would never hammer their own scum buddy on day one. Later in the game they might need to gain a advantage.

Scum want to blend in to town wagons, but they don't want their buddies lynch too early. WIR is the scummiest wagon until the next wagon that rolls around. Ghostlin voted for him then in a short period of time unvoted him.

@Ghostlin: I understand unvoting the quick lynch because a quick lynch doesn't yield much info for day two. I can imagine long days getting really tense towards the deadline. Are there any strong scum reads then WIR atm? And if this were a deadline situation would you stick with the wagon to the lynch?

@StephenB: You unvoted ghostlin. Ghostlin has been the most active but do you think his actions are helpful or hurtful to town?
I'll say one thing about the doc issue. I'm from the future. I can here in a time machine that the Doc invented. Now I need his help to get back to the year 1985.
-AP Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:35 pm
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Post Post #67 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:44 am

Post by StefanB »

AP: (I hope thats okay): Well Ghostlin and I had our diferences, where I thought that somethink he said could be hurtful to town. About this discusion ask anyone not involved to get a more objective answer. Leaving this aside, I don't think Ghostlin was hurtful for town, it seems that he is trying to help the town overal, but it is to early to say if he is helpful or not. (Page 3!)
On the other points: Never say that Scum would never do anythink, they could do exact this to get Towniepoints.

Welcome Chkflip (I know I will write this name wrong some posts) Have fun, will be interesting to hear from you)

Haylen: I look forward to your reactions, when you read all. Interesting question if all this makes now more sense than at 1:40 AM. Sorry for giving away that thing with Deer. Sorry you were away for 2 Days and I didn't know that someone else was on that point.
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Post Post #68 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:36 am

Post by Ghostlin »

AwesomePoe wrote: @Ghostlin: I understand unvoting the quick lynch because a quick lynch doesn't yield much info for day two. I can imagine long days getting really tense towards the deadline. Are there any strong scum reads then WIR atm? And if this were a deadline situation would you stick with the wagon to the lynch?
WIR is the most scummy at the moment. If it was deadline and we had uncovered nothing else, then yes, I'd stick with the wagon. I'd hammer if I'd had to. It's not deadline. It's page 3 on a game where there are a full two weeks left until deadline. There was no point in risking L-1, having scum hammer and send us into twilight; even if WIR is scum. It denies us information, and while we could press WIR for a claim at L-1, there's always the quick hammer.

(As a note: my vote would of put him at L-1, not hammered him. You can't unvote the hammer in newbie games. The game goes to twilight instantly after a vote to hammer is cast.)

There's no reason we shouldn't take the full amount of time on Day 1. When everyone's scum reads get more developed, then we might want to take less time on Day 2, Day 3, etc, maybe. The most viable situation where a day goes by fast is any day with a No Lynch situation (which we don't want happening, and maybe want happening less at D1). Someone will get lynched today.
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Post Post #69 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:36 am

Post by Ghostlin »

EBWOP= So there's no confusion, today= Day 1.
"You live for the fight when it's all that you've got."--Bon Jovi, Living on a Prayer
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Post Post #70 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:57 am

Post by StefanB »

Just to ad somethink that we should take into accont. A lot of people are very quite, to quite to read them. Most people should post more. As alternative to lynch WIR I would sugest to lynch one of the worst lurkers, the problem is who? Lurking through game is a strategie of mafia, but to much townies are using it at the moment too. Form opinions, ask questions do somethink!
Lurkers at the Moment: Chkflip, huristat (the only one I won't lynch, because the problems should be over soon), nikitakit (still waiting on your 3rd post)
Hell: Deer and WIR could be called semilurkers at the moment and I really wait for Haylen to post. (If you subtract the IC posts there isn't that much Haylenplayerpostings) The last one may be me being impatient, she has better reason than some others, but it's frustrating.

Important: IF the DISCUSION between Ghostlin and me is the problem, just ignore it. It isn't at the front at the moment, just start to play.
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Post Post #71 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:41 am

Post by hurristat »

Haylen wrote:
Can you all answer these please!

1. Is there any time coming up where we can expect you to not be very active?
I'm v/la at the Weekends but I will pop my head in.

2. Have you familiarized yourself with Mafia Discussion and the Wiki?
3. Have you read at least one completed game on site?
4. What is your experience level? How many games have you played? Are there any complete newbies in the house? Does everyone know how the game in general works.
well, because I'm slow apparently, here you are.

1) usually during the day (I'm GMT-4 or 5) Afternoons and nights I'll usually be here
2) yes
3) yes
4) pretty experienced in IRC games, i'd say maybe 1000, but only 3 other thread-based mafia games.
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Post Post #72 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:13 am

Post by Deer »

chkflip, do you have any serious candidates for scum?
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Post Post #73 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:19 pm

Post by nikitakit »

I did some isos on several more players, here are my thoughts...
StefanB: I can't tell who your primary suspects are right now. You unvoted Ghostlin, and from the iso I see no other accusations.
StefanB wrote:Important: IF the DISCUSION between Ghostlin and me is the problem, just ignore it. It isn't at the front at the moment, just start to play.
I don't get what you're saying here. You're pretty much the most active people here, I don't get what you mean by "ignoring" you.

Ghostlin: "Causal inception" and Vote/unvote are the only things that stand out to me, but that's not enough to base a case on.

Deer: Lots of short posts. It annoyed me slightly at first, but then I looked back through Deer's posts from other games saw that they're all very short as well. Other than that, I find it hard to get a read.

WhenInRome remains my top suspect for now because he's been pushing an accusation based on evidence I'm not clear about. I'll wait for some comments from StefanB before making up my mind about him.
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Post Post #74 (ISO) » Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:22 pm

Post by WhenInRome »

Sorry guys, I got a new computer and I'm still setting it up, posting from my iPod. Expect content later.
BEN DROWNED

Worst luck ever: Last townie alive. They lynched me. (http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16353)

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