Newbie 1052 - Endgame

[Mute]

@Mute: Can I have the details of the game that you played with Nacho? The mod name specifically interests me. I just want to prove that 1 part of your table wrong. Although this has been said already, all the mods, choose the roles of people at random.
Also, finding you a bit scummy, since you refer to me and Workdawg towards something you're answering, yet I didn't quite ask. Plus you keep referring to the more experienced players more often. We're not the only ones here.

One last thing:

Guilty until proven innocent.

This basically means that everyone here is scum, even you. You can't prove anything until a flip occurs, or pretty much late game, when someone slips and their gamble crumbles. I got lynched for this in my first newbie game here.

VOTE: Ty

Erm... Details as in..?
The game is linked in my sig, so if you'd like to read it by all means. the mod was RedCoyote.

And yes, I am aware. That still holds true in that everyone has every reason up until a flip to be suspicious of everyone. I acknowledge people will be suspicious of me as is this game, as I am of everyone.
In particular now..

After reading, and rereading everything posted about Ty up until now, I'm finding him to be pretty suspicious too. Mute and his table still rub me the wrong way, but in the interest moving things along I'm throwing down the hammer.

VOTE: Ty

Wow dude.
This is the single scummiest thing I've seen from you, so as for your question about where you lie, this post gives me nothing but a scum-vibe.
You say a table which holds no threat to town-aligned scares you, you proceed to hammer a person without giving them a chance to defend themselves (scum opportunistic bussing?), and give no reasons

why

you feel he's suspicious.

EDIT::

EBWOP: I suppose hopping on the bandwagon with the hammer looks scummy. My reasoning is that both his posts have been long on words, but short on anything helpful. There's a lot of junk in there and it seems to me like he's trying to avoid being a lurker, but also avoid suspicion by diverting to Nacho and Stels, the two other experienced players...

is he trying to get them lynched so he can take advantage of all of us poor newbies?!?!?

It looks scummy because it

is

scummy.

[Workdawg]

Woah, Nacho slipped in while I was posting again...

@Nacho:

The timestamp on #25 is only 3 minutes before my timestamp of #26, 8am and 8:03am on my time.

And it looks like Mute has slipped in while I was posting this, jeebus.

@Mute from Preview

As far as throwing down the hammer... I guess I'm a little bit anxious since it's my first game. As you can tell, I'm pretty active online and the idea of waiting 2 weeks to learn any concrete information as craziness to me. If I set myself up as a target for Day2, then I guess we'll see what happens.

[Angry Scientist]

Hammer? What hammer? I see 4 votes on Ty (TP42 unvoted him after the first votecount).

4:30 AM for me here, so any analysis of what just happened has to wait until tomorrow.

[theplague42]

Unvote

Vote: Workdawg

To use a cliche, EPIC FAIL. I'm 99.9% sure that you're only the fourth vote on Ty. I command-F'd and scrolled through since the last votecount. My vote was on Ty, plus four more put on afterwards. Unfortunately for you, I'm pretty sure that I unvoted and voted for Mute. The only other thing was Mute's FoS on Ty in post 34.

Damn, I thought I got away from people who obviously can't count in this game.

@Nachomamma8
Why is your response to the pseudo-hammer so calm? If it had been a real hammer, this would probably have set the record for the shortest D1 ever.

Preview edit: Angry, you and me are completely correct.

[theplague42]

Missed this first time around.
[quote="Workdawg"]

@Mute from Preview

As far as throwing down the hammer... I guess I'm a little bit anxious since it's my first game. As you can tell, I'm pretty active online and the idea of waiting 2 weeks to learn any concrete information as craziness to me.

If I set myself up as a target for Day2, then I guess we'll see what happen

[/qupte]
This is the single scummiest thing I have seen in this game so far. You're obviously baiting and challenging us to vote for you, as if we would be afraid and back down. Wagon wagon wagon time!

[theplague42]

Ok completely ignore my last post. I put p instead of o in the end quote. I am seriously having issues with editing this game. I'm actually going to use preview this time. Let's try this again...

Missed this first time around.

@Mute from Preview

As far as throwing down the hammer... I guess I'm a little bit anxious since it's my first game. As you can tell, I'm pretty active online and the idea of waiting 2 weeks to learn any concrete information as craziness to me.

If I set myself up as a target for Day2, then I guess we'll see what happen

This is the single scummiest thing I have seen in this game so far. You're obviously baiting and challenging us to vote for you, as if we would be afraid and back down. Wagon wagon wagon time!

[Nachomamma8]

Good catch, Angry Scientist.

Unvote

for now, then. Just in case the guy who didn't confirm yet is one of those "overanxious newbies".
At this moment, I'm inclined to think Workdawg is town. Most scum quickhammers are votes that aren't explained very well, and when confronted, they end up giving an "I didn't see the votecount" excuse, instead of announcing that they're throwing down the hammer. That being said, I am not ready in any case for the day to end, so I'd recommend that no one else try to quickhammer.

There is one thing that bothers me about this entire scenario, and it's below:

EBWOP: I suppose hopping on the bandwagon with the hammer looks scummy. My reasoning is that both his posts have been long on words, but short on anything helpful. There's a lot of junk in there and it seems to me like he's trying to avoid being a lurker, but also avoid suspicion by diverting to Nacho and Stels, the two other experienced players... is he trying to get them lynched so he can take advantage of all of us poor newbies?!?!?

I don't like that he realizes that the hammer looks scummy after the fact. It seems he's slightly regretting the hammer, but not because he thought of the chance that Ty might be town, but instead because the scenario might make him look scummy.

[Nachomamma8]

@theplague: Maybe not the shortest, but pretty darn close. I responded calmly to the hammer because there really wasn't much else I could do. Unfortunately, quickhammer attempts like this are done regardless of alignment, and this one seems like town to me. If I was a normal player in this game, there would've been rage, but I'm supposed to be introducing you guys into the community, not scaring you away.

[Mute]

@Mute from Preview

As far as throwing down the hammer... I guess I'm a little bit anxious since it's my first game. As you can tell, I'm pretty active online and the idea of waiting 2 weeks to learn any concrete information as craziness to me. If I set myself up as a target for Day2, then I guess we'll see what happens.

To be fair I was posting a response to Stels when you and nacho ninja'd in. =P
Now then on topic:
I understand being anxious and wanting the game to progress. It would do so on it's own. Being in a rush like that is not helpful. Frankly, I feel that you are scum and were bussing your partner. If Ty turns up mafia that suspicion will be furthered by me. If Ty flips town you will still look scummy for being an eager-beaver.

While I share your level of activity more or less, and the mindset of "waiting 2 weeks to learn any concrete information," (which, first off, only a flip will give concrete info, everything else is speculation, hunches, educated guesses, and so on) that's no excuse.

EDIT::
(yay for previews.)

@Angry/plague

(whichever one said something about playing with people who can't count): I have never lied that I am bad at math.
If Ty is at L-1, then he better get in to address the situation.
And given that it is still L-1,

HoS: Workdawg

. Until Ty can give answers to the things I've posed to him regarding suspicions I have of him my vote stays. I still feel that Ty and dawg being scum is a likelihood based on what's happened.

Now then can we

please

stop having people ninja inbetween posts?

[Nachomamma8]

Mute, why do you think Workdawg would try to hammer his scumbuddy?

[Workdawg]

Ahh dang, you guys are right. I was reviewing all the posts about Ty and I noticed the postcount the mod had posted showing one vote for him, and then counted 4 more... I missed the unvote.

/facepalm and EPIC FAIL indeed. Terribly sorry about that.

Preview edit @tp42:

I would hardly call that a challenge, at the time I thought it was twilight and there was nothing I could do about it then. I agree that it looks pretty bad, a rookie mistake of epic proportions. If the wagon comes for me, the I deserve it and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

@Nacho:

I'm absolutely concerned with looking scummy, isn't everyone one, both scum and town? I knew I was throwing the hammer, and I really only regret being wrong about the vote count. I still think he's scum, and I'll stand by that. I fully admit that the scenario makes me look scummy, but again... it's happened so I just have to deal with that. The only reason I added the EBWOP was because in my swiftness to vote, I forgot to explain my reasoning and I wanted to make sure I got that out there.

@Mute:

I'm confused about how trying (and failing miserably) hammer Ty makes you think him AND I are scum. I certainly understand that I painted a big target on myself with my haste, but what would the point of drawing attention to either of us if we were in it together? It seems imminent that either one of us will be lynched now, and certainly that's not good if we are in it together.

Also, can you elaborate on what a "flip" is?


Hopefully I've covered all the other posts with preview edits now...

[Mute]

Good catch, Angry Scientist.

DAG NABIT WHAT'D I SAY ABOUT NINJAS?!

At this moment,

I'm inclined to think Workdawg is town. Most scum quickhammers are votes that aren't explained very well, and when confronted, they end up giving an "I didn't see the votecount" excuse, instead of announcing that they're throwing down the hammer.

That being said, I am not ready in any case for the day to end, so I'd recommend that no one else try to quickhammer.

There is one thing that bothers me about this entire scenario, and it's below:

EBWOP: I suppose hopping on the bandwagon with the hammer looks scummy. My reasoning is that both his posts have been long on words, but short on anything helpful. There's a lot of junk in there and it seems to me like he's trying to avoid being a lurker, but also avoid suspicion by diverting to Nacho and Stels, the two other experienced players... is he trying to get them lynched so he can take advantage of all of us poor newbies?!?!?

I don't like that he realizes that the hammer looks scummy after the fact. It seems he's slightly regretting the hammer, but not because he thought of the chance that Ty might be town, but instead because the scenario might make him look scummy.

Uhm... Nacho these two bolded points seem, to me, to contradict one another.
His vote/potential hammer wasn't well explained at all, just "ive re-read and he's suspicious now to me so im placing the hammer."

---
EDIT::

Mute, why do you think Workdawg would try to hammer his scumbuddy?

Bad newbie-scum play.

---
EDIT::
got dangded post ninjasss... *grr grr angry-face shake-fist*

Preview edit @tp42:

I would hardly call that a challenge, at the time I thought it was twilight and there was nothing I could do about it then. I agree that it looks pretty bad, a rookie mistake of epic proportions.

If the wagon comes for me, the I deserve it and there's nothing I can do to stop it.

No. This thing right here you're doing? Stop that. I only say this because this is ultimately what got me lynched my last game, I gave up and let myself get lynched without giving myself the chance to form an argument of defense.
I don't care right this specific moment if I'm breaking rank and saying something an SE/IC would say but NEVER surrender. The instant you do you paint a target a large as the moon on yourself from all sides. Town can lynch you, scum can manipulate/implicate you, whatever.

@Mute:

I'm confused about how trying (and failing miserably) hammer Ty makes you think him AND I are scum. I certainly understand that I painted a big target on myself with my haste,

but what would the point of drawing attention to either of us if we were in it together? It seems imminent that either one of us will be lynched now, and certainly that's not good if we are in it together.

Also, can you elaborate on what a "flip" is?

A flip: when a person's role is revealed by the game mod through either a lynch or a night kill.
And as for the bolded, see my response to Nacho.

[Stels]

@Nacho: I'm not obsessed with that 55 becoming a 60, no way man. I mean, sure, he can believe whatever he wants, but isn't it our role to teach the newbies their mistakes, so they won't do this kind of stuff in further games, like in large games where you can just get band-wagoned at page 2 or so.
"Also, "guilty until proven innocent" works fine on yourself; your Role PM should be all the proof you need that you are innocent" - not for 2 out of 9 people here it doesn't
I would love to sweep some scums with you too Nacho, <3, especially since I was surprised with you not following your usual posting pattern. I thought for sure you'd just go all lurky-style on us until Day 3. And the same thought goes to you, hope you're not scum.

@Mute: Wow, just wow. That signature of yours, omfg. That has got to be the most toughest-to-find thing I have ever seen on MS. I didn't know you even had a sig until you said so. So, all the more reason that everybody has an equal chance of being scum, period. Since Drench =/= RedCoyote
Plus, I don't think it's L-1 anymore, since Nacho unvoted.

@Workdawg: If a wagon comes onto, there is always something that you can do to redeem yourself or at least be helpful to town by scumhunting even if you are lynched. Don't. Give. Up.
Just to point out something: Don't be concerned with looks, just don't bother with it. The only thing I can see in that is more of a scum-tell than a town-tell, since scum have more reason for wanting to look good than town. Sure you don't want to be lynched for looking scummy, but trying to appear to be something you are not, isn't helpful at all. Just be yourself and do what you got to do. I think I got lynched as that being part of the reason in my first Newbie Game as well.

@Mute: if it makes you feel better, I got ninja'd about 9x now. Ever since Angry Scientist posted.

UNVOTE: Ty
Just to be safe for the night.
Good Night.

[theplague42]

Posting from mobile so this could take awhile.
@Mute
My "can't count" is referring to how some hammerers will claim they miscounted the number of votes. I've seen it alot with newbies, scum or not. I just think that it's too early to have been an honest mistake, especially since there was a vote count not too long ago.

@Workdawg
"Flip" refers to a person's role being revealed when they die. Comes from the MeatWorld tradition of playing cards used to symbolize roles, and a players card was physically flipped to reveal the role.

Wolfdawg's "newness" is piquing my interest. He claims this is his first game, but he has read alot. He seems familiar enough with terminology and hammering, yet has no idea what "flip" means? It's a null tell to me, but it's still interesting.

Preview edit: I see the question has already been answered by Mute.
Another preview edit: I feel the same wayabout ninjas.

[Ty]

Neuky

Was hoping you can expand on this. 1. Do you mean active lurking, or just a disinterested player who's dropped out? Would you still pursue this even if there was a strong scum candidate unearthed?

Both are lurking and will be treated as such. As for your second question, I can’t give a definite answer one way or another. It depends on the “strength” of the candidate, if someone seemed to be slipping up scumtells that seemed more obvious/pressing than lurking, I think it’s fairly obvious to say I will take down a scum wherever it might pop up.

Workdawg & theplague42

I was trying to act innocent in my first two posts. Like I said, this is my first game and I certainly don't want to be saying anything stupid that people might interpret as a "scum tell."

But what if we are almost mislynched? In my last game (as I said earlier), I was almost mislynched pretty early. Afterward I started to watch what I said

These two quotes are fairly similar so I’ve decided to group them together for the sake of relevance. Workdawg, I understand where you are coming from having been there myself, however the key is that you don’t need to “act innocent” because if you’re a townie, you ARE innocent. The only people that should be putting on an act in this game are the scum, and you doing so in order to appear more innocent actually puts yourself, and the town, in a worse position.

There are very few things you can say that are outright stupid. You may have missed something or analyzed a post incorrectly, but for the love of God it is much better to continually keep talking than to be paralyzed and stay silent for fear of being foolish. I’m going to reiterate this in one of the following paragraphs, but more talk leads to more information which leads to a more successful town. If someone is calling you out on a scumtell (many of which are simply arbitrary), just explain to them how their reasoning is wrong.

Not only should you not care about sounding stupid, but to be quite honest, you shouldn’t really care what anyone else thinks (within reason) while you are scumhunting. Do you think I care how Nachomamma8 thinks of me? Pushing people gets results, and it’s very important you do it. The last part of this post is devoted to my thoughts regarding Nachomamma8, please look it over (along with the rest of the post) and respond how you feel appropriate.

Theplague42, on the verge of being lynched is when you should be speaking the most. As a pro-town player, memorize and live by the following phrase:

Veritas Vos Liberabit

. The truth will indeed set you free. You should of course present a solid defense and rebuttal of points that may have contributed to your current position, as lynching a town player is, of course, regretful. However remember your goal should be to find the scum, so explain who is most suspicious on your bandwagon. Remember that the scum’s objective is to remain alive, so there defense will subconsciously be different. By simply reiterating and emphasizing your thoughts and freely telling the truth, you have a much better chance of avoiding an unnecessary anti-town lynch. One quick note – should you be lynched as a town player, don’t forget to post your final thoughts and analysis. Make the best of a bad situation (remember, you can still win even if you’re dead).

Mute

I do not like this post.
Firstly, it's long. Needlessly long.
Second, this is in relation to the first segment of bolded text. The entire thing (the bolded portion) is hypocritical. Any information that the town has, the scum has as well. Specifically, the underlined text. This can be used by scum to find people to eliminate during the night to be able to further spread confusion and cause mislynches.
And you're right, questioning does reveal a great deal of information, both of the ones being asked and the ones asking the questions.

First, I don’t like your post. It’s short, needlessly short. See, I can post useless information too! Anyways, we’re finally getting to some of the good stuff. This is a continuation of Workdawg’s paragraph from above, and it’s important that everyone read this. Mute, your train of thought in regards to your second statement is very misguided. INFORMATION HELPS THE TOWN. Now repeat that to yourself one hundred times. It’s fairly obvious the scum will see what we see, however the pros in this situation FAR outweigh any negatives. Large amounts of posting benefit the town in two very important ways. First, discussions and analyzing posts are almost all that the town has to go off when reaching a consensus on who to lynch, so would you agree it’s important that the town is as well informed as possible before making that decision? Secondly, the more people talk the easier it is to separate the scum from the townsfolk for scumhunting purposes. The scum are forced to either 1) talk more, which increases the chances of slip-ups and scumtells or 2) go into lurk mode, which becomes extremely noticeable.

To summarize, POST AS MUCH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN and give the town (who should be scumhunting) a much, much needed advantage. Also, I thank you greatly for your approval of my questioning, as Nachomamma8 doesn’t seem to be as big of a fan of them as you are.

Nachomamma8

@Ty:
Vote: Ty
You've failed to explain in your post why not answering your questions has any scum intent behind it. You also failed to answer my question. Instead, you posted a case on me which is concluded with a question: why shouldn't you lynch me? Well, if you're town you don't feel confident enough to put a vote with that case, so you'll only end up making yourself look like scum. But if you ARE scum, then go ahead. I'd love to see you try to lynch me.

Look I’m trying to help you Nachomamma8 but all you’re doing is hurting yourself. You asked for my purpose in asking the questions and I provided a reasonable (and fairly long according to some) explanation. Then you end your post with a logical fallacy (False Dilemma http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma )? Logical Fallacies are used by scum who can’t back themselves up with reasoning, and all I see is a scared Nachomamma8 quickly throwing down a OMGUS vote.

Perhaps the part I find most worrisome, that others may have caught, is that you’re still avoiding my questions. The only question you’ve partially answered is whether you should be lynched, and you ENCOURAGED ME TO LYNCH YOU. I repeat: why shouldn’t I lynch you, and I’m going to have to ask you to start scumhunting as it’s very important for the town. Could you please list your two most likely scum players and provide some reasons why?

END NOTE: Looks like an entire page of posts sprouted while I was posting. I'll try and get another post up tonight.

[Workdawg]

I've been F5ing this page every few minutes since my last post trying to let everyone get in here without interrupting, and now I see this:

END NOTE: Looks like an entire page of posts sprouted while I was posting. I'll try and get another post up tonight.

And I lol'd. If he posted all that and doesn't realize what just happened. I can only imagine the look on his face as he is reading it.

To respond to a few things that have stuck in my mind.

@Everyone who told me not to give up

: Thanks for that, believe me I won't. Up until now there really wasn't much else to say because every post revolved around how scummy I look from that single move. I posted my response to that and I stick by it.

@Mute:

Mute, why do you think Workdawg would try to hammer his scumbuddy?

Bad newbie-scum play.

I would like people to believe that I'm not THAT bad, and hopefully my reply to you above about that is sufficient. However, after the recent events, I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking I am that dumb.

@TP42:

Posting from mobile so this could take awhile.
@Mute
My "can't count" is referring to how some hammerers will claim they miscounted the number of votes. I've seen it alot with newbies, scum or not. I just think that it's too early to have been an honest mistake, especially since there was a vote count not too long ago.

There was a post count, and that's what I referred to when I counted votes. Your vote was listed on that count, and there were four more after it. Ironically your post immediately after the postcount is the one in which you unvoted. Obviously I have to be more careful when counting votes. The whole Unvote without a name thing is throwing me off. Reflecting on the votecount situation, I also realized that in my haste, I failed to unvote before casting my vote against Ty, so that makes it even worse.

[q="TP42"]@Workdawg
"Flip" refers to a person's role being revealed when they die. Comes from the MeatWorld tradition of playing cards used to symbolize roles, and a players card was physically flipped to reveal the role.

Wolfdawg's "newness" is piquing my interest. He claims this is his first game, but he has read alot. He seems familiar enough with terminology and hammering, yet has no idea what "flip" means? It's a null tell to me, but it's still interesting.[/quote]

I assure you that this is indeed my first game. It took the admin staff about a week to approve my account, then another few days for this game to start up. I've been really excited since I first discovered "mafia"
As for my knowledge of terminology, I've had the mafiascum wiki's glossary page open making sure I get my acronyms and stuff right. Flip isn't listed there. And "hammer" reminds me of the banhammer, which is simply internet pop culture.

@The Entire situation:

I still think that Ty looks a bit scummy, and if he really hasn't seen what happened yet, then we'll have to wait to see what he says when he does read it. Post #64 seems to be more general scum hunting logic, which is certainly appreciated from a newbie standpoint, but it doesn't seem to help advance THIS game any. The only things I've seen that he's really posted that are relevant to THIS game are the things he says about Nacho, and whether it's misguided or not, I get a town vibe from Nacho.

[Workdawg]

Ahh crap... it looks like I broke the quote around something TP42 said above.
If the above post confuses you, then see here...

For everything past the discussion of my vote counting failure, see below:

@Workdawg
"Flip" refers to a person's role being revealed when they die. Comes from the MeatWorld tradition of playing cards used to symbolize roles, and a players card was physically flipped to reveal the role.

Wolfdawg's "newness" is piquing my interest. He claims this is his first game, but he has read alot. He seems familiar enough with terminology and hammering, yet has no idea what "flip" means? It's a null tell to me, but it's still interesting.

I assure you that this is indeed my first game. It took the admin staff about a week to approve my account, then another few days for this game to start up. I've been really excited since I first discovered "mafia"
As for my knowledge of terminology, I've had the mafiascum wiki's glossary page open making sure I get my acronyms and stuff right. Flip isn't listed there. And "hammer" reminds me of the banhammer, which is simply internet pop culture.

@The Entire situation:

I still think that Ty looks a bit scummy, and if he really hasn't seen what happened yet, then we'll have to wait to see what he says when he does read it. Post #64 seems to be more general scum hunting logic, which is certainly appreciated from a newbie standpoint, but it doesn't seem to help advance THIS game any. The only things I've seen that he's really posted that are relevant to THIS game are the things he says about Nacho, and whether it's misguided or not, I get a town vibe from Nacho.

[theplague42]

@Workdawg
It is indeed in the glossary page. Maybe you're confusing it with the abbreviations page. And your lack of an unvote isn't bad per se, just ironic. Perfect example of why they're used.

I would disagree with your view of Ty. He is deinitely acting more as a teacher than a player right now, but that's half of his job. He's using general logic and techniques to crticize and/or support specific arguments/statements (right words?) in this game. There really isn't

that much

stuff to attack people with examples from just this game.

Preview edit: nice to know I'm not the only one with acute fail-at-editing syndrome

[theplague42]

I guess TP42 is my new official abbreviation? Sweet! Much more BA than just "plague" IMO

[Nachomamma8]

@Mute:
I'm not quite sure how the two quotes contradict. It's a multi-layered scenario, and thus won't give you a clean read when looking over it. The first bolded portion explains why I believe he is town (because he didn't set up for the "I didn't see the votecount" excuse, and was very forward about hammering), and the second bolded portion explains what I didn't like about the situation. Is there anything that needs explaining? Also, "bad newbie scum play" doesn't quite cut it for me. Why do you think even the worst of newbie scum would try to hammer their partner in that situation? Do you believe he was pressured into it?

@Stels:
Nothing fun happens until Day 3 . But I'm likely to be killed early in this game, so I might as well make the best out of the time I have, right? Just lynch the last scum after I'm gone, okay?

@theplague:
Do you think he might be lying about how new he is? What's the scum motivation for that, do you think?

@Ty:
First of all, I am the IC of the game, and I'm here to teach you a thing or two. If this wasn't true, then you'd be the IC and I'd be the SE. Please keep that in mind when talking to me, and keep the condensending tone (whether intended or not) to a minimum. I won't press the issue, of course, but I found it worth pointing out. Your use of False Dilemmas is incorrect as well. My post was not a false dilemma because I was giving you advice, things you COULD do based on your alignment. A false dilemma would be if I told you things you MUST do.
Your point that my vote was OMGUS is also correct. OMGUS-voting someone is voting them when the sole reason is "they voted for me", and if you look at my post, I backed up my vote quite well.
I'm not avoiding your questions; I'm simply refusing to answer them. Some of us hate the RVS, others of us hate the RQS. I, being of the latter type of person, will probably never be found answering Random Questions unless I see merit in them. Your response to my question didn't show merit, thus, refusal.
You seem to be skimming over my posts.

Well, if you're town you don't feel confident enough to put a vote with that case, so you'll only end up making yourself look like scum. But if you ARE scum, then go ahead. I'd love to see you try to lynch me.

That's my response, found in ISO #1, post #43. I only encourage you to lynch me

if you're scum

, not if you're town.
I'll also point out that I HAVE been scumhunting this game, and refuse to provide my top two suspects because there is absolutely no reason to do such a thing on page three. It's a pretty safe bet that you're #1, though.

[Ty]

Angry Scientist

This entire post is full of theories that aren't really relevant to the scumhunting, unless that first paragraph was an attack on nacho, and/or it has some hidden, deeper meaning. Lot's of words, almost zero content. Another candidate for a politician. Me not like... Also,
I never said anything like that, and I don't even know how can you get your conclusion out of what I said. I said that unless you're a clairvoyant or Sherlock Holmes, you won't really get a solid reasoning out of RVS, so we need to 'drill'. By 'drilling', I meant using small reasons to accuse someone most suspicious, and then cement the case/scrap it and go for someone more suspicious as the post are piling up. I didn't say anything about no scumhunting today. About your second question, Why thank you, that's what am I doing since the very beginning - questions, catches. It already helped me by providing some reads (for example, my vote on TP42 is no longer an RVS vote since my last questioning).

I didn’t realize there was such a large anti-literacy lobby in this game. Would you like it more if I posted almost no information like Stels and Nachomamma8? Do you think that will improve the chances of a town win?

You won't get a solid reason in or right after RVS. Unless someone start's drilling, we can pat our backs to the end of the days without anything conclusive.

This is the comment in question. You just said that this day will prove inconclusive if no-one starts drilling. I’m the only one applying pressure to anyone from what I’ve seen (i.e. drilling) yet I’m one of your scum suspects for having a long post. Perhaps my priorities are different from yours, but I’ll gladly post novels if it helps lead to the scum.

My second question was directly related to you saying “Unless someone start's drilling,” which clearly implies you haven’t been doing it. Yet now you say you’ve been scumhunting this entire game. Can you explain why you’re contradicting yourself?

Stels

@Ty: Main concern about RQS is that it can be used against you. Say, you answer a question, like: "Do you support Lynch All Liars?" and someone answers yes, yet later in the game, someone lies but that person will not support his lynch for certain reasons, such as believing his claim. Yes, he has contradicted what he answered at the beginning of the game, but he has his reasons. Scum-tell? Not really. I didn't say I hated your RQS specifically, I still answered right? I just said that I hate them in general since the questions are pretty random as well as only one person benefiting from it. And please don't tell me, "you all can go ahead and do RQS yourselves" because that's just upright stupid. Oh and on the topic that it helps everyone, it doesn't. As I have said before, it only benefits you, since only you know the logic behind that question, no matter how random it can be.

RQS can be used against you? You mean to say that something you post can later be used against you? Instead of making some snappy sarcastic comment I’ll just say that that it’s a bonus for the town. Unless they are as dense as your example makes them out to be, the town should be able to take circumstance into consideration and allow it precedence over a question designed to get the game moving. At least I really hope so.

No, I’m not the only person that benefits. I believe I pointed out that the entire town benefits from the RQS due to the posting it creates. You are tunneling your vision in regards to how the questions are important. Frankly, I find the (non)responses to be most telling. You don’t need me brain to analyze how someone responded and the resulting discussion that takes place? In fact, allow me to let you in on a dirty little secret. Most of those questions have no logic at all and I don’t have an ulterior motive. Surprising as it is, we’re on the same playing field.

I briefly touched on why RQS is generally better than RVS in my previous post and I’m more than willing to discuss this theory with you, however it seems my time is better used elsewhere in the current state of things.

@Ty again: So, provide me with a reason why I'm scum, maybe I'll believe you. Or correct you with a whip. Plus, if I am scum according to you, why aren't you voting me?

I don’t think you’re the scum at all. If you’ve read my posts you’ll notice I have other suspects. As to why I’m not voting, I don’t toss my vote around like candy. I vote when I feel I have the right person, it helps avoid possible quicklynches, you know, like the one that almost happened right now.

Nachomamma8

There's no rush in throwing down the hammer this early in the game. The game will move along at its own pace, which normally is two weeks or so per day. Please keep this in mind while playing other games, or you will be a fantastic Day 2 prospect lynch. Regardless of Ty's alignment, you have taken away all of the information we can possibily get out of Day 1, and have thus seriously hurt the Town's chances of winning this game. You should know that from the game's you've read.

Wow, the lack of emotion in this post is disturbing. I was almost lynched 48 hours into the first day and this is the only response we can get out of you Nachomamma8? I almost sense concealed happiness in here, and though we may not be cuddling up to each other I think we both know the severity of the mistake Workdawg (almost) committed. In addition to answering the questions in my previous post, how does your opinion of who is scummy change after the recent almost lynch?
Note: It looks like theplague42 also caught this.

TO ALL

Yes, I see all the dramatic posting. Unfortunately it’s midnight so I’m going to stop for now and get some sleep. I’ll have another post in response to all the recent shenanigans up tomorrow.

[Mute]

@Stels: Sorry. I don't find a reason to have much of anything in a sig here... quotes from other people? Nah, I'll just use it to keep track of past games. Though I question how exactly it was so hard to find... "Completed Games" was in bold, and the entire thing is right aligned, and there's that thin bar that separates post content from user signature... Just pointing that out.

Now we go back to Ty again.

---

Mute

I do not like this post.
Firstly, it's long. Needlessly long.
Second, this is in relation to the first segment of bolded text. The entire thing (the bolded portion) is hypocritical. Any information that the town has, the scum has as well. Specifically, the underlined text. This can be used by scum to find people to eliminate during the night to be able to further spread confusion and cause mislynches.
And you're right, questioning does reveal a great deal of information, both of the ones being asked and the ones asking the questions.

First, I don’t like your post. It’s short, needlessly short.

Let's start with this. There is never a post that can be considered "needlessly short." There's too long which gives plenty of room for ambiguity. Second, the best posts I feel are the ones that are short, sweet, and to the point. The acronym K.I.S.S. (keep it simple, stupid!) is an acronym I apply to my daily life.

See, I can post useless information too!

...wait, am I being attacked with this? Is the information I'm using against you useless, really? To you, perhaps, but to others? I am not at all liking the passive-aggressive and high-and-mighty tone in your posts thus far in-game. Whether or not it's a scum-tell depends on context but I personally hate people who act this way unjustifiably.

Anyways, we’re finally getting to some of the good stuff. This is a continuation of Workdawg’s paragraph from above, and it’s important that everyone read this. Mute, your train of thought in regards to your second statement is very misguided. INFORMATION HELPS THE TOWN. Now repeat that to yourself one hundred times.

I don't like condescension. Not by

anyone

.
I know that, and it's common sense.

It’s fairly obvious the scum will see what we see, however the pros in this situation FAR outweigh any negatives. Large amounts of posting benefit the town in two very important ways. First, discussions and analyzing posts are almost all that the town has to go off when reaching a consensus on who to lynch, so would you agree it’s important that the town is as well informed as possible before making that decision? Secondly, the more people talk the easier it is to separate the scum from the townsfolk for scumhunting purposes. The scum are forced to either 1) talk more, which increases the chances of slip-ups and scumtells or 2) go into lurk mode, which becomes extremely noticeable.

To summarize, POST AS MUCH AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN and give the town (who should be scumhunting) a much, much needed advantage. Also, I thank you greatly for your approval of my questioning, as Nachomamma8 doesn’t seem to be as big of a fan of them as you are.

Then may I advocate you practice what you preach please? As it stands, you've tunneled on Nacho for his refusal to answer your questions. I gave the merit that asking questions does reveal info, but maybe you misinterpreted it.
Scum can ask questions as much as town to gauge out potential threats. So far, from the questions you've posed, you've not done, for what I feel to be, an adequate level of scum hunting.

---
Now, to tear a bit into your latest post here

Stels

@Ty: Main concern about RQS is that it can be used against you. Say, you answer a question, like: "Do you support Lynch All Liars?" and someone answers yes, yet later in the game, someone lies but that person will not support his lynch for certain reasons, such as believing his claim. Yes, he has contradicted what he answered at the beginning of the game, but he has his reasons. Scum-tell? Not really. I didn't say I hated your RQS specifically, I still answered right? I just said that I hate them in general since the questions are pretty random as well as only one person benefiting from it. And please don't tell me, "you all can go ahead and do RQS yourselves" because that's just upright stupid. Oh and on the topic that it helps everyone, it doesn't. As I have said before, it only benefits you, since only you know the logic behind that question, no matter how random it can be.

RQS can be used against you? You mean to say that something you post can later be used against you? Instead of making some snappy sarcastic comment I’ll just say that that it’s a bonus for the town. Unless they are as dense as your example makes them out to be, the town should be able to take circumstance into consideration and allow it precedence over a question designed to get the game moving. At least I really hope so.

You're right in that regard. Scum would want to ignore the context of RVS/RQS and push for a mislynch. But to say the town would be too dense to let that happen is a logical error as well, as quite frankly IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

No, I’m not the only person that benefits. I believe I pointed out that the entire town benefits from the RQS due to the posting it creates. You are tunneling your vision in regards to how the questions are important. Frankly, I find the (non)responses to be most telling. You don’t need me brain to analyze how someone responded and the resulting discussion that takes place?

In fact, allow me to let you in on a dirty little secret. Most of those questions have no logic at all and I don’t have an ulterior motive.

Surprising as it is, we’re on the same playing field.

Then why are you coming off as using a weak argument? Why say they hold no long-term impact here, when you say the exact opposite earlier on?
And if these questions have "no logic at all," or "an ulterior motive," then why did you ask them then?

I briefly touched on why RQS is generally better than RVS in my previous post and I’m more than willing to discuss this theory with you, however it seems my time is better used elsewhere in the current state of things.

What happened to you just there? How is keeping information a secret something saved for someone better? How is this pro-town play?
Why does this directly contradict you when you said that

INFORMATION HELPS THE TOWN. Now repeat that to yourself one hundred times.

---

@Ty again: So, provide me with a reason why I'm scum, maybe I'll believe you. Or correct you with a whip. Plus, if I am scum according to you, why aren't you voting me?

I don’t think you’re the scum at all.

If you’ve read my posts you’ll notice I have other suspects. As to why I’m not voting, I don’t toss my vote around like candy. I vote when I feel I have the right person, it helps avoid possible quicklynches, you know, like the one that almost happened right now.

The bolded, I am going to rail on here. On ISO:#0, you flat out ask Angry, Nacho, and Neuky "2) Why is Stels the scum?"
Erm...
So, you accuse Stels of being scum, then deny you ever did when confronted about it? This is a scum-move by my count.

---
In summation I find Ty would be the best candidate for a first lynch, and as such am keeping my vote on him.
I apologize for the wall of text here. I tried to my best to stay on topic, and keep to my point.

[Drench]

The Second Vote Count - Broken ohgodrunningoutofpoeticphrasesalreadythisendsnow

theplague42 - 1 - Angry Scientist
Neuky
Mute
Workdawg - 2 - Neuky, theplague42
Angry Scientist
Naben
Stels
Ty - 2 - Mute, Workdawg
Nachomamma8

No Lynch

Not Voting - 4 - Naben, Ty, Nachomamma8, Stels

Lynch count has NOT been reached. With nine alive, it's five to lynch!

Day One's deadline expires on the 8th of February at 11:07am AEDST (GMT+11).

I doubt Naben's going to confirm at this stage, but I'll give them until 48 hours after day start before I get a replacement. Also, you're more than welcome to ask me to fix crappy formatting. I've gotta abuse my mod powers somehow.

[theplague42]

@theplague
Do you think he might be lying about how new he is? What's the scum motivation for that, do you think?

I'm not sure that he is lying directly. He's just reading selective information in the wiki, somehow completely missing the (arguably) most important part of the game. People who tend to do this do it everywhere, including in-game arguments. I don't particularly think that it's a scumtell, as it's not any type of duplicity or misinformation. If anything, it could be considered a slight towntell, as this is an example where he has no reason to lie.

Nacho, why are you refusing to reveal your top two suspects? Isn't that just denying information to the town?

[Workdawg]

@Workdawg
It is indeed in the glossary page. Maybe you're confusing it with the abbreviations page. And your lack of an unvote isn't bad per se, just ironic. Perfect example of why they're used.

I would disagree with your view of Ty. He is deinitely acting more as a teacher than a player right now, but that's half of his job. He's using general logic and techniques to crticize and/or support specific arguments/statements (right words?) in this game. There really isn't

that much

stuff to attack people with examples from just this game.

You're right, I was confusing the Acronyms page with the glossary. In any case, thanks for the info. I figured that was probably what a flip was, but I wasn't sure if it was more complicated, possibly something along the lines of they are revealed to be the opposite of what was suspected.


As far as Ty is concerned, I can see that the information he is providing is generally useful, but it seems suspicious to me that he seems so focused on Nacho, but won't cast a vote.

I can see that he seems to be focused more on being the teacher than the player, and I guess I'm not really sure what to make of that, especially when compounded with his tunnelvision on nacho. Is it really altruistic, or is it a mechanism to look town since he is trying to help the newbies. His two big posts can be summed up pretty accurately like this:

@Player: Minor thing that I sort of care about.

@New Player: Remember to tell the truth because that's the best thing for town to do, and the more you say, the more information the town has.

@Nacho: Zomg you are scummy because of X.

As I mentioned before, I definitely appreciate his thoughts on how to play the game, it just looks suspicious to me for previously mentioned reasons. His reaction to the near-lynch seems extremely calm, which also has me mildly concerned. I guess we'll see what his reaction is in his next post.

@Ty:

I don't think anyone is "anti-literacy" around here, I don't mind reading wall posts so much, it just seems to me like you are saying the same thing over and over.