Bomb Mafia -- Game Over

[RedCoyote]

One more thing, before it comes up. Any explosions will not end the day.

[SpyreX]

Hit.

I have a thought, help me through it because I know its not right.

Give X (being a scumbolina) said bomb. Force them to hold it.

IF they don't, lynch them.

[Jack]

CES, pass the bomb to me.

I have played in a game with almost the exact same kind of mod-predetermined deadlines, and it should be obvious that it isn't entirely random. I have a decent chance at guessing close to right.

[AntB]

Why the hell do you want the bomb so badly?

[Hoopla]

Why the hell do you want the bomb so badly?

Ego.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Pass the bomb to Benmage, Vote: Benmage

Sorry Jack, but I'd like to see the bomb passed around.

Are you saying you're certain the scum do not know the bombs times?

I'm saying I'm not indulging your paranoid fantasies.

"No motive to give him (it, btw, unless the bomb has a dick I don't know about) back?" Being immune to the bomb, and moreover, being immune to the bomb you know at least one person wants to give you, seems to me to be one hell of a motive.

This is your earlier second point, i.e. the one we're discussing in the next quote.

1. Scum do indeed have to justify their passes - but, generally, it's easier to justify a pass back to someone who passed to you then it is to justify to an unrelated person who just-so-happens to have passed already.

But not so much easier that it's likely to be relevant.

2. It's better for the town for the people to die of pass-loss than from time - which incidentally is another argument in favor of max 1 day for bomb holding. Pass-loss means that the bomb was passed to that target four times (three if they were original holder), AND that the last person to pass them the bomb knew that it would result in their death, which is also helpful information in and of itself.

If the time's sufficiently short, this may be entirely unrealistic. In any case rushing to try and cause pass-loss bomb deaths doesn't strike me as the smartest thing to do.

@SpyreX, it's definitely worth trying.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

EBWOP: forgot to respond to this

Once again, if you have arguments that these restrictions would be anti-town, I'm all ears. But you instead seem to be taking the position that "NO ONE TALK ABOUT THE BOMB. EVERYONE JUST DO WHAT YOU WANT." I assume scum are talking about the bomb. I sure as hell want to be as well. If we indulge in passing with no thought and no restrictions, we're suckers and scummy motivations can be passed off as ignorance. I don't like being a sucker, and I really don't like playing the "Was this scummy motivated thing coming from scum or just town that didn't think about it?" WIFOM game.

What I want is for townies to be able to play as naturally as possible.

[AurorusVox]

CES: is your pass and vote an attempt at SpyreX's #76?

[Jack]

I have a bomb activated PR. Depending on how long I hold it, I get different abilities. Longer is better.

My

perfectly legitimate

guesses about when the first deadline will be are relevant here. I wanted to get it ASAP on day 1 because it would be bad from a design standpoint to have it go off before the game is up to speed.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No, AurorusVox, why would you think that?

Way to tell me that now, Jack.

[AntB]

I don't see why you'd be willing to risk such a potentially powerful role so early, but that's your call to make. You could have claimed slightly earlier....

[Benmage]

Pass bomb Jack

The early claim is either too late or too earlier but horrendous nonetheless imo. I wanted to tell him to go fuck himself....but actually I want him to blow up or be lynched.

I still the most logical thing todo is use it as a second lynch. Not just giving and forcing the scummy player to hold it or be lynched...because scum can still pull last minute shenanigans, but rather make said scummy player use their 3 passes and then hold it, or be lynched. Reduces risk this way.

I had more to say but I'm on my phone.

[Benmage]

Oh yeah, was giving me the bomb random, or was there reasoning?

[Benmage]

The mods wording in the opening post doesn't rule out inside bomb information. Quite frankly I think scum might have some insight. I want Jack dead.

vote Jack

[SpyreX]

We can do a pass/pass/pass hold thing.

Of course, once we see how this plays out, well.

[AurorusVox]

No, AurorusVox, why would you think that?

Because you gave him the bomb and parked a vote there in the same post that you said it was worth threatening players with a lynch if they didn't hold the bomb. But thanks for clearing it up.

RE: Jack's claim, that makes sense along with his plan. He tried to get us to do it without outing himself as a PR, so I don't think AntB and Benmage can scold him for "risking" himself or it being a "horrendous" claim.

[SpyreX]

Jack is a special case too, btw. I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say explicitly doing the three-pass shuffle is a bad idea in this instance

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE: Jack

You dismiss the accusation of softclaiming bomb-related role info as ridiculous, then you actually claim bomb-related role info. I don't buy this.

[hitogoroshi]

Hit.

I have a thought, help me through it because I know its not right.

Give X (being a scumbolina) said bomb. Force them to hold it.

IF they don't, lynch them.

This actually works fine, provided that a.) we all vote on who the scumbolina IS and b.) there is no one out of passes. There are two stable equilibrium points (voting for the bomb target, or a rapid pass chain

played to completion

) and an in-between that is badtimes jackson. People have shown an dislike to using the bomb as a targeted second lynch, and if we're gonna be having individually planned passing at ALL we want to play it out to the end.

@CES: I don't have the energy for wall to wall combat at the moment, but let me address this point:

What I want is for townies to be able to play as naturally as possible.

This is useful for regular mafia. But I think a big part of why it's useful is that, even with plenty of different viewpoints on optimal play, there's still a large subsection of play that we all agree is anti-town and pro-scum. For example, every town player knows the optimal scum play would be to never post, and they make their decisions on how much to post with that knowledge. My worry is that the anti-town, pro-scum bomb play is much less obviously so, and we'll have townies doing it as well as scum. I would have loved to keep my thoughts to myself and lynch the first pass-back, but realistically the chances that a townie simply hasn't thought it out are too high.

@Jack: To be clear - your PR has benefits based off of how long you hold the bomb, but you actually have no information on when it goes off, correct? You're relying on your personal insights for that?

[Jack]

@Jack: To be clear - your PR has benefits based off of how long you hold the bomb, but you actually have no information on when it goes off, correct? You're relying on your personal insights for that?

I have empirical data and inferences from the role information, in addition to the "personal insights".

[danakillsu]

Crap. Again I check in on this game and don't have the time to post anything worthwhile. I'll try to remember to do that tonight.

[hitogoroshi]

I have empirical data and inferences from the role information, in addition to the "personal insights".

Okay, I can understand how you'd draw your conclusions with what you have. I'm still a bit leery about the whole thing because I don't know if you're a scum PR (or vanilla scum with faction-wide bomb awareness), but I can definitely understand why, if you're tell the truth, you're so confident in your ability to outguess the setup.

Though, something you should think about: does your ability key off of total time holding all of the bombs combined, or only the most recent "streak?". You don't have to answer me in-thread, but that answer really influences your guesswork, and I want to make sure you're sure about which it is.

If we all vote for a bomb recipient, would you pass it to that person when your business is over?

[themanhimself]

I don't buy into this. Jack wants control of the bomb and if he has info about it, I think that's likely to come with a scum alignment. And like SC said, first he adamantly said that he didn't soft claim, then he claimed? He's backtracking because he found a better excuse.
VOTE: Jack

[StrangerCoug]

I hate to do this twice in close succession, but the problem I complained about regarding not feeling well has gotten worse. I have a fever.

Mod: V/LA again.

Noted

[Fate]

VOTE: Jack