Mafia 126 - Lovers Mafia! [Game Over]

[werewolf555]

VOTE: Espeonage
For using logic >:O

[Antihero]

I honestly don't get how there are people who are against massclaiming lovers, there is literally no reason not to if the game is nightless. Read the rules, ffs. If scum want to push on weak players, they can do that whether or not we claim lovers. Plus, this would be incredibly unbalanced if scumgroups had NKs.

What are you talking to?

Hey, apparently this game is going now!

Love you, too, AH!

VOTE: Llamarble Don't like the "Go Massclaim!" followed up by "I didn't claim because I wasn't sure about massclaim." And...

I like that there's no issue dishing out townreads in this game. Scum can't make much use of a shoppinglist without money or a shop. But yeah that's weird logic for calling Silvavor town; pretty much anyone could have corrected that. Maybe he was scum hoping to nip a potential source of towncred in the bud.

...doesn't sit well with me.

I'm not going to claim w/o my partner's OK.

Damn, I was looking forward to antagonizing you for a couple pages, but this seems reasonable.

By the way, Llama, the shoppinglist analogy didn't work for me. What exactly did you mean?

Lover claim: Nero Cain

Also, I'm going to

UNVOTE

because my vote was based on the idea that scum had NK.

Are you two scum again?

[Llamarble]

People often say giving townreads is like making a "shopping list" for scum to pick NKs from, but since they have no NKs to "shop" with a shopping list does them no good.

@Mariyta: I was definitely in favor of a massclaim but wanted to make sure I wasn't crazy and others were in agreement.

[Mariyta]

Damn, I was looking forward to antagonizing you for a couple pages, but this seems reasonable.

Wait, what? You're not calling me scum right off the bat? Are you sick, or do I need to start calling you Scumhero again?

I honestly don't get how there are people who are against massclaiming lovers, there is literally no reason not to if the game is nightless. Read the rules, ffs. If scum want to push on weak players, they can do that whether or not we claim lovers. Plus, this would be incredibly unbalanced if scumgroups had NKs.

I actually see a small downside to claiming. If a weak player was paired with a strong scum hunter, they could push the weak player to take out the strong. My hope is that the town would see this and stop it, though.

[Umbrage]

I don't see any downside to claiming, but I'll wait for my partner's thoughts on the matter for politeness' sake.

[implosion]

I honestly don't get how there are people who are against massclaiming lovers, there is literally no reason not to if the game is nightless. Read the rules, ffs. If scum want to push on weak players, they can do that whether or not we claim lovers. Plus, this would be incredibly unbalanced if scumgroups had NKs.

What are you talking to?

Reck/PO and anyone else for who the idea of not claiming lovers came to mind.

[xRECKONERx]

VOTE: Espeonage
For using logic >:O

Why are you so terrible at everything?

[GreyICE]

Lover claim: Nero Cain

Also, I'm going to

UNVOTE

because my vote was based on the idea that scum had NK.

Well, guess this is going to be the closest I get to an apology.

I'll take it

IIOA

EmpTyger - Thingyman
GreyICE - Antihero
Llamarble - DarlaBlueEyes
Implosion - Kise
xRECKONERx - Nero Cain

[EmpTyger]

silavor:

Grey:
Right, that's the point. Your words don't match your actions.

How so?

Let’s say you’re town and you genuinely wanted a massclaim at the start of D1. How would you go about doing it? Maybe you’d list the arguments for. Maybe you’d lead by example. Maybe something else.

But I don’t think you’d say it should happen “at some point” and then do nothing to encourage it, instead just attacking Reckoner. To me, that fits someone who is worried a massclaim is going to happen but doesn’t want it to. It’s like saying “I should vote X” but then finding something else to do or someone else to vote instead.

(I realize that GreyIce has been more recently gungho, but that was after I called him out.)


Antihero:
A guilty silavor could have sit back and let the confusion develop. He may or may not have stuck his neck out to further any misunderstanding. But he didn’t do either of those things. He immediately clarified it to a protown course. Which I don’t see an antitown player doing. (In fact, no one has disputed that it was a protown move; the only argument seems to be how conclusively protown it is.)

The context for GreyIce is different, some players were using it to attack him. He gains regardless of his alignment. Sitting back and doing nothing, or furthering the confusion are most likely to increase pressure on him. So in his case, it’s inclusive, because his motivation is the same regardless of his alignment.

Out of curiosity, what do you think about how GreyIce “dished out a townread” on Reckoner and PO?


Umbrage

UNVOTE: Reck
VOTE: EmpTyger

I don't like how he suddenly started claiming, with his lover following up on it. That combined with how he attacked GreyICE for indirectly supporting a massclaim and his quick townread on silavor makes me think something fishy is going on.

If I support a mass lover claim…
Why wouldn’t I suddenly start claiming?
Why wouldn’t my lover follow up on it?
Why wouldn’t I attack someone who got on record as pro massclaim but then wasn’t follow through on it?

That all seems very consistent to me. Where are you seeing a problem? (Unless you’re going to argue that supporting the massclaim was suspicious?)


implosion:
Where did Umbrage lie?

[GreyICE]

silavor:

Grey:
Right, that's the point. Your words don't match your actions.

How so?

Let’s say you’re town and you genuinely wanted a massclaim at the start of D1. How would you go about doing it? Maybe you’d list the arguments for. Maybe you’d lead by example. Maybe something else.

But I don’t think you’d say it should happen “at some point” and then do nothing to encourage it, instead just attacking Reckoner. To me, that fits someone who is worried a massclaim is going to happen but doesn’t want it to. It’s like saying “I should vote X” but then finding something else to do or someone else to vote instead.

You mean around post #10, before you had posted in the thread?

*shakes head*

Some people...

[Espeonage]

Unvote

Lover: Purple Orange

Vote: EmpTyger

Placing vote here because while noone has actually caught my eye for being scummy Thingyman is developing a tendancy to draw away from what is happening in thread. I know he's new but someone that has played quite a bit of Mafia should know to keep things on track unless you want to confuse the town, which has happened.

Most people's votes are null and void thanks to them all being based on misundersdtandings about claiming. Yes we should mass claim because nothing inherently bad will come of it because the game is nightless so can we just get over that and on with the game?

[Haylen]

Oh wow, you guys speak loads. I could get behind a massclaim, but I would like to see Baby Spices opinion on it first.

Current town read: Silvador
Current neutral read: Umbrage
Current scum read: Emptyger - he seemed a bit strawmanny and enthusiastic

Vote Haylen
Claim: Vanilla Cop Chain Doc Fridge Mad Scientist Lover Surviver to a Jester.

[Espeonage]

EBWOP: And he has more votes than his lover Thingy atm.

@ Mod: Can we get a votecount.

[Umbrage]

@ Emp: I just think it's weird how you said that GreyICE was scummy for bringing up the massclaim, then you basically say "this is the way to do it". As I see it, there's nothing wrong about being cautious, I've had many an idea that seemed good when I thought of it, but other people disagreed.

[xRECKONERx]

I want drammie to get home from work ;_;

That way I know which whore I have to kill that stole my lover away from me

[Baby Spice]

Oh wow, you guys speak loads. I could get behind a massclaim, but I would like to see Baby Spices opinion on it first.

Why me? Do I have that big a reputation for being wrong?

I'm in favour of it. I will reveal if the other, lesser, half agrees. (He hasn't posted yet)

The only benifit for the scum, that someone's scummy behaviour gets countered by an very town looking lover, is also a better benifit for the town anyway. ie: Someone townies bad play gets countered by a very town lover.

Not liking how the idea was floated in the first place though. Felt like someone testing the waters to know which way to jump, and to me that indicates a scum attitude.

[GreyICE]

I want drammie to get home from work ;_;

That way I know which whore I have to kill that stole my lover away from me

Don't worry, I'm sure someone will give you Vezok back if you ask nicely.

[DarlaBlueEyes]

I'm here I'm here, and I'm most certainly not only just in all of your heads. Maybe.

I confirm that Captain Kirkalicious-Llama-face is my oh-so-satisfying lover and I will come back here to add more content after I get caught up in my games with deadlines. Still battling the flu but am on the last stretch now, so I shouldn't be too hindered

[xRECKONERx]

I want drammie to get home from work ;_;

That way I know which whore I have to kill that stole my lover away from me

Don't worry, I'm sure someone will give you Vezok back if you ask nicely.

>_>

[implosion]

implosion:
Where did Umbrage lie?

See the signup thread.

[EmpTyger]

Espeonage:
I actually do agree with you about Thingy being distracting. However, I'd already had words with him about before you posted. I do not expect it to be an issue in the future.


Haylen:
Okay, I'll bite. What's a "neutral read"?
May as well tell me about the strawman too, but not really feeling like apologizing for enthusiasm.


Umbrage:

@ Emp: I just think it's weird how you said that GreyICE was scummy for bringing up the massclaim, then you basically say "this is the way to do it". As I see it, there's nothing wrong about being cautious, I've had many an idea that seemed good when I thought of it, but other people disagreed.

Uh, I explicitly said there were multiple ways to do a massclaim. And I do agree that cautious exploration could have been one such way.
But I don't read what GreyIce was going as exploring a massclaim. Is that your interpretation of what he was doing?
(Baby Spice put it better:

"Felt like someone testing the waters to know which way to jump, and to me that indicates a scum attitude."

)


implosion:
Don't get it?


GreyIce:
Don't want the other part to be lost. Why do you think that mafia wouldn't pretend to be unaware of the mafia role PM? (or werewolves of the werewolf PM?) You handwaved that away as "because it's stupid". But it seems to me much more likely than mafia wanting to seem very acquainted with that PM.

[Haylen]

Oh wow, you guys speak loads. I could get behind a massclaim, but I would like to see Baby Spices opinion on it first.

Current town read: Silvador
Current neutral read: Umbrage
Current scum read: Emptyger - he seemed a bit strawmanny and enthusiastic

Vote Haylen
Claim: Vanilla Cop Chain Doc Fridge Mad Scientist Lover Surviver to a Jester.

^ My first posts in games should never be taken seriously. Except for the Sivador townread. I was just messing with you all.

[implosion]

Well, at least some guys who lie about their sex in their profile would be nice!

I'll start, shall I?

[Nero Cain]

Claim: Vanilla Cop Chain Doc Fridge Mad Scientist Lover Surviver to a Jester.

best claim EVAH!!!

[Umbrage]

[quote=EmpTyger](Baby Spice put it better: "Felt like someone testing the waters to know which way to jump, and to me that indicates a scum attitude.")[/quote]

I really don't get how putting out a feeler like that is scummy. It seems more pro-town than "we are going to all mass claim now" IMO.