Mini 1122: Mafia.Exe Game Over

[bgg1996]

"I didn't need much of a reason to change votes" = "I don't care who we lynch as long as it's not me or my buddies."

If I believe that there is somebody who has more of a reason to be lynched than the one who I am currently voting for, why shouldn't I change my vote?

[Llamarble]

7 completed games. 4 ongoing.

Sure, if you think somebody is more likely scum than whomever you're currently voting. But you gave no reason why Xine was scummier than whomever you were voting and you put her close to a lynch.

[GreyICE]

Grey, would you mind explaining

why

that vote was "really, really bad"?
Don't you stand behind your scumread on Xine anymore?

Sure. It put her at L-2 with no reasoning, no reason for voting, and no real logic behind it. Like "oh, everyone is voting for Xine, let me do that too." Oh and then he wins like a thousand other prizes too immediately after that.

[Redacted]

Actually it does, I see him(?) as the most obv town player so far. so, please, do explain.

He was wayyyyyy overaggressive for the RVS.

What is this I don't even..

The game is mafia not happy happy funtimes, not sure what this expectation you have about RVS is but none of my votes are random and I find the whole idea of a phase devoted to useless noise to be antitown.

DRK, we are all still waiting on your explanation...

Hello, I'm DRK and I'm on LA until the 14th. Nice to meet you too.

What the bloody hell is this nonsense, your here posting on a daily basis but your not going to answer questions until the 14th? Either bugger off for your V/LA or play the game, waiting to see how the game develops before answering questions seems a game plan that consists of combines the worst of coasting and active lurking.

Unvote

Vote: bgg

Bad vote was really, really bad.

Grey, would you mind explaining

why

that vote was "really, really bad"?
Don't you stand behind your scumread on Xine anymore?

The first half of this post is fantastic, you see someone immedatly go for the obvious vote without even bothering to rationalize it, questioning them is 100% appropriate; but the second half is completely awful and comes off as scummy. It completely contradicts the first half, he saw a bad vote and attacked it, trying to work in his scum read on Xine into the situation is opportunistic as hell.

[Redacted]

On another note I remain completely happy with my vote on Neruz.

He's gone from denying anything of importance has happened to;

I apologise for not making sense, to make it up to you i will join the wagon and vote Xine on your behalf.

VOTE: Xine

And since then hasn't attacked anyone else, if he's so sure of his vote on Xine that he's not even bothering to hunt around for the rest of the day (He's only been discussing mafia theory and making throw away remarks since then), why does he explicitly distance himself from the Xine wagon (He makes sure to include "on your behalf" and to explain he's joining the wagon to "make it up to you").

[DeathRowKitty]

What the bloody hell is this nonsense, your here posting on a daily basis but your not going to answer questions until the 14th? Either bugger off for your V/LA or play the game, waiting to see how the game develops before answering questions seems a game plan that consists of combines the worst of coasting and active lurking.

There are 2 bold claims in your first sentence, both of which are blatantly false. If you're confident enough in them to accuse me of them in that tone but not useful enough to actually check if they're correct (especially since checking one of them would have required no more than fully reading the post you were quoting), I plan on ignoring everything you say for the rest of the game. Stop PMSing and actually play.

[DeathRowKitty]

Mod, fix the quote tags?

>.<

[Neruz]

I find it incredibly amusing that you accuse me of making throw away remarks since that vote, when you quote one of those throw away remarks and take it seriously.

I voted Xine because i didn't like his early sweeping declaration, as you would have noticed if you'd read and quoted the entire post instead of only the part that you felt like reading. I havn't said much of content so far because there hasn't been much to say. Hiraki and Nathanael appear to be having a little slap fight, bgg pulled an early claim that is either painfully newbie town or very clever scum. Llmarble makes a good point about the early L-2 Vote, but i'm getting more of a town vibe from bgg.

Xine, on the other hand, has gone into

massive

lurk mode, posting only twice in the last two pages and providing no content at all in any of her posts. Her last post, in fact, consisted of asking other players their experience. She has consistantly failed to respond at all to all the people voting her and appears to just be hiding and fervently hoping that if she ignores it hard enough, it will all go away.

Based on that and what i'm seeing from the rest of the players so far, i see no reason to move my vote. In most cases any questions or pokes i would have done, someone else got there before me, which is just par for being in Australia and thus out of synch with the rest of the western world timezone-wise.


Nice attempt at manufacturing a case on me though, i'll give you a point for trying.

[Neruz]

Ack, above post is talking to [Redacted] by the way. Forgot to quote him.

[Xine]

Heh, I lurk, tis true, always have. (I'm a very busy woman, but I manage to keep up on reading, and posting requirements, feel confident in that) I do like that you excuse yourself for lack of content, and then immediately attack me for lack of content... awesome. as far as not commenting on my wagon, that's cause I'm not worried about it, 1) I'm not afraid to die 2) it gives ma a great point of view for early wagon analysis.
I'm even more sure about GreyICE being scum, as sure about DRK, and less sure on bgg, no new scum-spects.

[Neruz]

I have more content than you Xine, in fact i think that's the first post from you that has any content or relevance to the game so far.

1) I'm not afraid to die

You're thinking about it wrong. I don't give a wooden nickle if you're afraid to die or not, i

do

care if you're afraid that the town will do somethin suboptimal. Lynching a town player is

bad

, it is to be avoided, because the town does not win by lynching the town.

Are you playing to win Xine? Because if you are, you're playing for a scum win.

[Xine]

I guess that's a matter of opinion. a long day one is surly optimal for town. but I do like the way you think, hey everyone, let's go with Neruz's plan and lynch scum!

[DeathRowKitty]

Since you seem to agree with Grey's point, but I can't understand it (what is that "ISO"-stuff you are talking about?), how about you explain it to me in your words. what exactly was Grey's point?
GreyICE, I'd like you to NOT answer this question for him, since I want to know what DRK agrees with exactly.

You see that thing below where you type up posts that says "Display posts by user:" with a dropdown menu? Select your name and click "Go". That's your iso. At the time of my posting about it, your iso contained (IIRC) 5 posts, 4 of which contained votes, and very scarce content to justify 3 quick vote switches.

Hey Hiraki. I'm Nathanael. I'm fine and I am happy to meet you in this cool game. I hope you are well too.
I think it would improve the relationship between us a lot if we just were honest to each other so I'll ask you a little question: Are you scum?
I'd appreciate your sincerity.

Yeahhhhh, I'm definitely liking the idea of a Nathanael wagon here. I don't see any town motivation here.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, this will be the first time I've actually played as a vanilla townie. (In my more inexperienced games, all of the roles had an ability)
Good luck using meta on me.

/facepalm

I'm not able to meta you right now (at friends on mafiascum (yeah, I know...)), but I'm inclined to believe this statement, lol.

QFT....especially the facepalm

bgg1996 what is your experience playing Mafia?

Around the middle-end of 2009 I played a few games on a rather inexperienced site. A bit after that I played a newbie game on this site as a... Roleblocker? It was a mafia role, I remember. I was about to lose, but I won because the time ran out.



The reason I voted Xine? There isn't much of one. I mainly voted him because he said I was mafia. I am a good guy. I didn't need much of a reason to change votes. I voted My Milked Eek originally for almost no reason at all. A random vote, I thought was best at the time.

Also, yes. I get rather defensive. I always do.

I can support this. I was suspecting you tell now as just bullrushing Xine lynch, but this makes sense. unvote vote Xine

His explanation for his vote is OMGUS + changes votes easily. Not sure how that could possibly convince you of anything.

FoS Greedling

Does this mafia even have roles other than regular townies and mafia members?

Okay, now I'm not so sure he's town. Ignore my earlier agreement with MME. (inb4 bgg-Greedling-Nathanael scum team?)

I'm even more sure about GreyICE being scum, as sure about DRK, and less sure on bgg, no new scum-spects.

Just to clarify: are you saying I'm scum for having voted [Redacted]? If so, why is that scummy?

[DeathRowKitty]

Actually...thinking through the bgg thing a little more, most games have at least one non-vanilla mafioso and he would know his buddies' roles if he were scum. This may be useful later on after we have a mafia flip.

[Xine]

I'm really tired, but didn't he say this was his first game playing as a vanilla, and then claim that he didn't know if anything other then vanilla exists, DRK, I'll get back to you soon, I'm being rude to guestsby posting right now

[Neruz]

I guess that's a matter of opinion. a long day one is surly optimal for town. but I do like the way you think, hey everyone, let's go with Neruz's plan and lynch scum!

It's a good plan. I find it to be most effective.

[DeathRowKitty]

@Xine
Yes. Unless this was a clever (and kind of cheap) scum ploy, if we see someone flip mafia roleblocker or something similar, bgg becomes very likely town.

[Neruz]

I'm getting a pretty strong town vibe from bgg. I don't really see any indication that what we see on the surface (a somewhat confused newbie) isn't what is actually there.

Barring him suddenly coming up with an elaborate ruse or plan or revealing deep and complex reasoning behind his actions, i'd say he's safe to dismiss as 'probably town' for now. We have plenty of free lynches yet if someone decides that he just must be an incredibly cunning scum running an elaborate scam.

[DeathRowKitty]

Fair enough. What do you think of Nathanael?

[Neruz]

Lots of vote-hoppy, a couple of pertinent questions and a bit of nonsense.

I'm not getting a particulary strong scum vibe off the measly 6 posts he has made, the vote hoppy could indicate someone amusing themselves with the RVS, or it could indicate a scum looking for a wagon that sticks. The lurking could indicate a townie somewhat out of his depth or a scum hoping to avoid notice now that the Xine wagon has been located.

Reasonable chance of being scum, probably worth poking a bit, although Hiraki's attempts so far have met with consummate failure.

[DeathRowKitty]

Well let's look at Nathanael's votes:

VOTE: [Redacted]
I agree with the case on him.

The case on [Redacted] was a joke vote, so it's safe to assume this is purely a random vote.

What can I say, I'm lucky that way. Oh well.

Vote: No Lynch

Lets be friends!

UNVOTE: VOTE: GreyICE, for no-lynching.

Looking like a not-so-random vote.

UNVOTE: VOTE: DeathRowKitty, for fucking with my brain. (What does "Ribbit" mean? or did I just get something wrong?)

This came 5 posts after his vote on GreyICE and is once again random. The only thing that changed between those two posts is that Greedling's new GreyICE vote became a matter of contention (2 votes for Greedling, 1 vote for someone for voting for Greedling). Either his vote on Hiraki was meaningless (in which case why bother casting it?) or I could possibly see nervous scum moving away from controversy.

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xine. wagon go go go!

PS: deathrowkitty, could you please explain what "Ribbit" means?

Oh, look, a serious wagon that I'm going to arbitrarily hop onto while distracting you by talking about other stuff!

---

Reasonable chance of being scum, probably worth poking a bit, although Hiraki's attempts so far have met with consummate failure.

Nothing pokes quite like a vote! So how 'bout it? Nathanael wagon?

[Xine]

I'm getting a pretty strong town vibe from bgg. I don't really see any indication that what we see on the surface (a somewhat confused newbie) isn't what is actually there.

Barring him suddenly coming up with an elaborate ruse or plan or revealing deep and complex reasoning behind his actions, i'd say he's safe to dismiss as 'probably town' for now. We have plenty of free lynches yet if someone decides that he just must be an incredibly cunning scum running an elaborate scam.

these could easily be newb scum move too.
he put me at L-2 with no comment, then defended himself with the most blatant OMGUS I've ever seen, I think I'm gonna...
UNVOTE: VOTE: bgg

[Nathanael]

1) Why should I not believe that NL vote was not scum-driven?

I think voting no-lynch in RVS is a

slightly

scummy move. why? because assume everybody would do it. what would happen? apart from ending the day without lynching, even if the day did in fact go on, we would get absolutely no information from any vote and would never get out of RVS.

2) Why did you continue RVS with the DRK vote?

I had seen DRK's brainfuck program a while ago (while reading some other thread I think) and had (since I hadn't anything to do at that moment) tried to find out what it does. I saw that it spelled out "Ribbit" and was a little perplexed. then I forgot about it.
I didn't notice his sig at first, but then thought RVS would be a good opportunity to ask him about his brainfuck-thing.

3) Why did you ignore my vote?

What did you want me to say exactly? "Nooooo, please don't vote me!!!" or something like that?

Are you scum?

Only on Tuesdays!

so we lynch you tomorrow?

Grey, would you mind explaining

why

that vote was "really, really bad"?
Don't you stand behind your scumread on Xine anymore?

Sure. It put her at L-2 with no reasoning, no reason for voting, and no real logic behind it. Like "oh, everyone is voting for Xine, let me do that too." Oh and then he wins like a thousand other prizes too immediately after that.

fair enough.
do you still think Xine is scum? if yes, do/did you think bgg was bussing?
did your opinion about bgg change after post 89 and 91?

Hey Hiraki. I'm Nathanael. I'm fine and I am happy to meet you in this cool game. I hope you are well too.
I think it would improve the relationship between us a lot if we just were honest to each other so I'll ask you a little question: Are you scum?
I'd appreciate your sincerity.

Yeahhhhh, I'm definitely liking the idea of a Nathanael wagon here. I don't see any town motivation here.

how serious is this post?

UNVOTE: VOTE: DeathRowKitty, for fucking with my brain. (What does "Ribbit" mean? or did I just get something wrong?)

This came 5 posts after his vote on GreyICE and is once again random. The only thing that changed between those two posts is that Greedling's new GreyICE vote became a matter of contention (2 votes for Greedling, 1 vote for someone for voting for Greedling). Either his vote on Hiraki was meaningless (in which case why bother casting it?) or I could possibly see nervous scum moving away from controversy.

I assume you mean GreyICE instead of Hiraki. As I explained above, my vote on GreyICE had some reason, and I explained above why I voted you. I see your attack on this point and I think voting you was slightly anti-town as I regressed one step. I was just so confused by your BF-sig. My position on voting no-lynch is clear, no need to "avoid controversy" there

UNVOTE: VOTE: Xine. wagon go go go!

PS: deathrowkitty, could you please explain what "Ribbit" means?

Oh, look, a serious wagon that I'm going to arbitrarily hop onto while distracting you by talking about other stuff!

Xine is very probably scum. so I vote him. what's your problem?

I'm getting a pretty strong town vibe from bgg. I don't really see any indication that what we see on the surface (a somewhat confused newbie) isn't what is actually there.

Barring him suddenly coming up with an elaborate ruse or plan or revealing deep and complex reasoning behind his actions, i'd say he's safe to dismiss as 'probably town' for now. We have plenty of free lynches yet if someone decides that he just must be an incredibly cunning scum running an elaborate scam.

these could easily be newb scum move too.
he put me at L-2 with no comment, then defended himself with the most blatant OMGUS I've ever seen, I think I'm gonna...
UNVOTE: VOTE: bgg

CONFIRM VOTE: Xine.

[DeathRowKitty]

Why do you think Xine is scum? Your Xine vote was the first time you mentioned her (Xine is a she btw) and you never gave any reasoning.

[GreyICE]

fair enough.
do you still think Xine is scum? if yes, do/did you think bgg was bussing?
did your opinion about bgg change after post 89 and 91?

I don't think bgg fully thought his actions through. I think he wanted to be on a wagon like everyone else and just jumped on. Frankly, I don't think it matters if it was a town wagon or a scum wagon, he seems desperately worried about fitting in. Desperately, desperately worried. That doesn't scream town to me.

#91 is terrible. You know why it's frequently in the town's best interest to lynch claimed vanilla townies, especially on day 1, and to hard claim that way under what can only be described as 'pressure voting' is a complete panic attack. I wanted an explanation for the vote, I cannot believe that the explanation was to CLAIM VANILLA TOWNIE before L-2 or L-1. It's friggin unbelievably bad, and says 'newbie scum panic' more than it says 'believably town' to me.

The only things you should claim early is miller (always) and sometimes Paranoid Gun Owner (I guess, wouldn't mind some opinions on that one).